This is topic Has anyone kicked Bart with herbs alone? in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.

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Posted by bcb1200 (Member # 25745) on :
So...LLMD and I believe what is left is Bart and some Babs. Currently going after Babesia Duncani with Malarone, Zith and Art. Also on Mino and Tindamax (for lyme) and taking A-Bart for Bartonella.

My primary remaining symptoms are mild tinnitus, mild muscle twitches (particularly in the calves), mild left foot pain, mild / intermittent night sweats. Occasional breathlessness when walking up stairs.

My Bart seems to be particularly persistent. I did 3 weeks of Levaquin last September..but then chickened out and stopped because my Achilles started to ache a tiny bit. 48 hours after stopping I had a huge flare of sx. Switched to Rifampin, but had to stop due to liver counts. Ive done 3 weeks of Factive (1 week / month). That helped a bit, but the pulsing didnt seem to work. Every time I sx came back.

So now..Im on A-Bart. It took a while to ramp up to 20 drops 2x / day..but I am there. symptoms persist a bit. So..I just upped to 30 drops 2x / day. Feeling a bit odd and have a flare in Bart sx.

I see my LLMD at the end of August. Id like to try Levaquin or Cipro to see if we can get rid of the Bart once and for all. ButIm concerned about tendons. So that makes me want to try alternative treatments.

Has anyone kicked Bart with herbs alone? If so..which ones?
Posted by Toppers (Member # 20083) on :
I did all the Buhner herbs, etc. to no avail. As the literature says, the only way to eradicate these coinfections (or are they primary infections) is with antibiotics.

I've gotten to remission with varying combos of enzymes and the same drugs you mentioned, only to come back later. Bartonella hides and communicates among themselves.

Maybe time to consider enzymes and "biofilm" breakers, and bloodstream cleaners to get the ABX to work better. I am confident some combination of all these things can/will eliminate these things.

Lumbrokinase/Bolouke and why it is VERY important for beating these:
Posted by jarjar (Member # 8847) on :
Speaking of biofilm busters and bart. I saw a cipro study on the web where NAC was very effective combined with cipro on clearing out lung infections.

I upped my doseage yesterday of NAC to 3 or 4 600mg of NAC and I woke up with a smashing headache. There is no doubt in my mind that the NAC was clearing out the biofilm.

I may even have to lower my doseage of cipro combined with the NAC as I'm skipping my morning dose of cipro today.
Posted by Toppers (Member # 20083) on :
I also wanted to add that I'm finding high levels of apple cider vinegar considerably stir up bartonella colonies (2-4 TBSP at a time on empty stomach). I'm going to start experimenting with getting them riled up, followed by a dosage of a known bart killer. We have to get creative and come up with new things, the same old same old of just popping pills won't eradicate this.
Posted by PhillyLyme (Member # 26468) on :
There was a post a few days ago about folks that have gotten well...if i recall there was an entry abou someone who finished up her tx with herb and seems to be doing ok.
Posted by jlcd1 (Member # 18138) on :
where can I find this Lumbrokinase, and is it the best thing for biofilms?
Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
My family has had success treating bart with Cumanda from Nutramedix. That, combined with Samento, worked best for us. Work up SLOWLY to 10 drops of each twice daily in a glass of water.

Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
tick battler,

Is cumanda tincture?
Posted by bcb1200 (Member # 25745) on :
Tick battler...was your family cured? Or were symptoms simply reduced?
Posted by jarjar (Member # 8847) on :
Okay the headache is gone with my NAC and cipro combo but guess what else is gone today? My burning feet! The feet was one of my main bart.
symptoms. I have to thanks whoever it was on this board mentioning NAC for biofilms.
Posted by lymeboy (Member # 24769) on :
I took Cipro for 5 months. I felt awesome at 3 months - like almost normal awesome. But Now I am treating with Rifampin, And I have Bart symptoms through the roof. I am not sure what the Cipro did to make me feel so good, but apparently it did not go far enough.

I know Bart has a reputation for being a REALLY tough disease. Personally I have not had much of any kind of reaction to herbs, and I wouldn't want to just rely soley on them for treatment. But that is just me.
Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
My kids were treated for 2 years with antibiotics (bactrim, rifampin, zith, etc..) and improved but still did not get rid of their bart. We then moved to a more alternative approach and saw through electrodermal screening that the bart was still there (2 to 3 strains) in all 5 of us. We also saw that the Cumanda tested better than any antibiotic we were taking for bart.

Now none of us have any classic bart symptoms and only 2 of us show small amounts of bart with the electrodermal screening. The levels continue to go down, as long as we stay on the Cumanda. My kids never complain of any bart symptoms and my husband's insomnia is slowly getting better (is able to wean from heavier sleep meds).

You can take Cumanda along with antibiotics so that might be an option too. But why not try it for a week and see if you herx at all? I think that would be a good indicator as to whether it may help you.

Posted by bcb1200 (Member # 25745) on :
Thanks. what is electrodermal screening?
Posted by nefferdun (Member # 20157) on :
You might also try Bactrim DS with a macrolide and NAC and lumbrokinase. That got rid of my symptoms. I don't know if it will come back but I have been free of bart symptoms for about 10 months.
Posted by Lymeorsomething (Member # 16359) on :
bcb, I just started Cipro..I'm about 2 weeks in and no tendonitis-like issues yet. I preloaded with mag. When I tried Levaquin a while back, I did have some tendon issues at about the week 4 mark.

However, I'm confident that I'm better prepared this time. I don't think Cipro will be that hard to handle.

Levaquin is generally preferred by why not try Cipro first if it's slightly easier to handle?

Good luck.
Posted by bcb1200 (Member # 25745) on :
Thanks all. I tried bacterium ds last year and broke out in a rash. I think I will push for cipro.

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