Ok, brief overview! My boyfriend and i started dating about a year ago. When we first started dating he was so busy, so active that it made my head spin. I got tired just watching him.
About 6 months ago his health started deteriorating and all that changed. His first symptom was anxiety. He had his first ever panic attack when we were at a restaurant and has had unrelenting anxiety, day and night since then. He went to his GP who prescribed Xanax and he now takes it daily, but it barely puts a dent in it. I have to drive us most places because his anxiety is so bad.
After the anxiety set it he starting having one weird symptom after the other and here they all are:
Swollen glands Sore throat Insomnia Severe fatigue Headaches Cough Excersize intolerance (sore and in pain for days after working out) Alcohol intolerance Extreme anxiety Depression Hot flashes Night sweats Constant sinus infections Chemical sensitivities Sound intolerance (used to blare his music in the car, now says he can't stand loud noises) Odor intolerance Constant ringing in ears Dizzy when standing Can't stand for long without need to sit down Joint pain Leg pain Feet hurt constantly Says he "always feels better at night" Once an every morning coffee drinker, now can't have any caffeine EVER Going through his second bout of prostatitis in three months at the ripe old age of 29
He's been to his GP several times over the last few months and all his labs are fine. Heart rate, blood pressure, thyroid, adrenals, etc.
I've told him several times that he needs to get a Lyme test but he's poo-pooed the idea every time. Why? Because he "doesn't feel bad all the time". He has days at a time where he feels ok and hardly has any symptoms at all so according to him, that's not Lyme. Inevitably though, his symptoms flare back up. They wax and wane. Hmmmm....
What finally did it for me was his first bout with prastatitis - the doctor put him on 10 days of abx and after starting the abx he got sooo sick. He laid in bed and slept for almost a week and had headaches so bad that he could barely function. His anxiety kicked up so bad that he said he wanted to "crawl out of his own skin". After he stopped the abx his symptoms calmed back down again.
Now the prostatitis is back again.??
Anyways, I've finally convinced him to get checked out by an LLMD to at least rule out Lyme. He's grudgingly admitted that he does have a lot of the same symptoms as I do. The other day we were talking about it and he said, " Ya know, none of this started until after we started dating. Is it possible that you could've given it to me?"
I told him that Lyme doctors are on the fence on the sexual transmission of Lyme. Some say yes and some say no. I read a scientific study the other day and scientist found live spirochetes in the semen and vaginal fluid of those infected in Lyme, as well as in breast milk. So is it possible? Yes. Did I? I don't know. It does seem awfully suspicious that his symptoms started after we began dating. A little too coincidental...
What do you guys think? Anybody here think they may have given Lyme to their significant other or gotten it from their significant other??
Inevitably
Posted by scorpiogirl (Member # 31907) on :
I agree he needs to get tested. I read and my LLMD concurred that it's much harder for a woman to pass Lyme to a man... but anything is possible. We simple don't know enough about this insidious disease!!
Posted by hopeful4 (Member # 8486) on :
What is possible is that many of us do not know exactly how we became infected with Lyme disease. It often occurs in both members of a couple, as well as in families.
Sexual transmission may be possible, but, as scorpiogirl stated, it is more difficult for a woman to pass Lyme to a man, than the other way around.
It's possible that by living in the same area/environment, that each of you was exposed individually.
Another thing about Lyme is that it can remain in the body, under the radar screen, for a long time, before symptoms appear. So, perhaps your boyfriend had it first, but the symptoms stayed below the surface.
Lyme disease happens. It's nobody's fault.
My husband and I both have Lyme disease. I became sick (symptomatic) several years before he did.
It's like a chicken and egg game, which came first? Sometimes we just don't know.
The important thing, by far, is to acknowledge that something is wrong, and Lyme disease is a possibility. Hopefully, your boyfriend will then get to the best LLMD you can find, and get tested.
With Lyme, the sooner a person can get diagnosed, the better.
Best wishes to you both.
Posted by Kramberry (Member # 34032) on :
Why didnt you guys use protection? Considering you clearly know you have lyme.
Was your bf aware you have lyme before you started dating?
Posted by lymielauren28 (Member # 13742) on :
Thanks Scorpio and hopeful - I forgot to add that I've had chronic Lyme for 6 years now - my boyfriend started developing symptoms about 6 months ago - 6 months into our relationship. If he does have it I suppose we'll never know how he got it. He has no memory of a tick bite and has never had a rash.
Kramberry - this is going to sound like a really bad reason, but my boyfriend can't stand condoms and I'm not a huge fan of them either. Since we were only sleeping with each other we werent worried about STD's. It never occured to me or him that he could possibly get lyme from me. Irresponsible on my part? Hindsight 20/20, you bet. Yes, he did know that I had Lyme when we started dating.
Posted by sutherngrl (Member # 16270) on :
I think there's a good chance he got it from a tick. I wouldn't put any blame on yourself.
Many ppl just never see the tick or a rash. And there are many couples where only one of them has LD and the other one never gets it.
I guess there is just no way to know for sure how he got it; but he could be one of the ones that just never saw the tick. Does he spend any time outside? Does he hunt, etc.?
Posted by bcb1200 (Member # 25745) on :
First..it sounds like Bart is a big problem of his. Make sure he gets checked for that.
IMHO, I doubt you passed it onto him sexually. There just isn't good data to support that. Yes..Syphillis is passed sexually, but then again Syphyllis causes open sores on the genitals.
It is much more likely that you guys share the same space, evironment, etc.
And incidentally I have no recollection of a tick bite or rash.
Posted by Dogsandcats (Member # 28544) on :
I am not a dr or a scholar...
But I am putting my two cents in for a tick bite.
Posted by lymielauren28 (Member # 13742) on :
Hey Suthern!! How are you?? I've been wondering about you and the others in our group - I lost everyones numbers. I hope you're better and doing well. PM me if you want to chat. To answer your question - he is a Mississippi boy, so yes he hunts. He's also a competitive shooter and is out in the fields a lot on the weekends. Ample opportunity for ticks!
BCB, I think he's infected with bartonella as well. He has a LOT of the symptoms. I'm sure the doctor will want to treat him for it.
Thanks for all the replies!
Posted by Tammy N. (Member # 26835) on :
My husband and I both have it. I'm not sure if I gave it to him, or he gave it to me. I had symptoms first. But he remembers being bitten by a tick when he was younger. So we will never know. And that's okay. Don't beat yourself up.
Not everyone who comes in contact with it falls ill.
Last night Dr. K said it is definitely sexually transmitted. He also said is also very likely that it can be passed by kissing. And there is new evidence to suggest that it can become airborne (thru sneezing, etc.). Scary.
Everyone will come in contact with these infections in one way or another, but again, not everyone gets sick.
Posted by Kramberry (Member # 34032) on :
I myself am sure i gave it to my wife. After being bitten i didnt know it was lyme. my symptoms progressed. 6 months after, wife started showing strange symptoms. She was pregnant at that time too. Much Worse isnt it? Then we decided to get tested and voila! We are both positive with lyme and bartonella. Before this we rarely get sick and is very healthy.
Posted by Hopeful in Holland (Member # 34304) on :
Wow, you mean I could have got this from my ex-husband. I think he has Lyme and doesn't even know he has it. I did start getting really sick just before we split up last fall.
He has been getting treated for MS and other miscellaneous issues. But the DR's can never agree on what was really wrong.
I have only had one rash and it was when I was 26, I am now 41. I never remember any tick or bite however I have been in many situations that a tick could have been involved. (Woods, mountain hiking, Ext.)
Posted by jackie51 (Member # 14233) on :
If you could give it your husband, then mine would have it and mine doesn't.
Actually, I've been suspicious that he gives me something that my immune system can't handle and his can. Possibly another reason I can't get well.
This is actually making me think more and more that he probably does have Bart. But, he does not have any lyme symptoms.
Posted by Carol in PA (Member # 5338) on :
Lauren, Your boyfriend may be able to improve some of his symptoms by taking magnesium and eating foods high in magnesium.
Posted by cleo (Member # 6646) on :
Husband was sick first after pulling a tick off the cat. I starting getting sick about 2 years later. Could also be mycoplasma in the picture. Many gulf war vets came home and got thier wifes,kids and animals sick according to garth nicolson. Too much evidence out there of finding viable bb in urine and tears to think that it does not happen.
Posted by FYRECRACKER (Member # 28568) on :
i'm also putting my bet on a tick bite.
I'm no scientist either, but I've been with a handful of men over the last oooohh decade (i'm 27) and none of them are sick like that.
You're in Mississippi, and I'm sure he's travelled. Lyme is all over. Maybe he was meant to hook up with you so that he could get treated SOONER rather than later like some of us here.
Not gonna lie, I've wondered if I've gotten my ex's sick too, but part of that is paranoia I think. Could it happen? sure, anything is possible. But don't blame yourself. Things happen the way they are supposed to.. deal with it the best you can and keep moving forward...
Hope he finds the help he needs.
Posted by Mo (Member # 2863) on :
in doc k's phone conference last night, he said it is far more contagious than is being generally acknowledged.
so, woman to man, woman to prince, woman to frog, kissing, even airborne are all possible..
he believes by now we ALL carry it, and can live in harmony with it.
OR, when there is system imbalance, overload, injury, ect, or you get that one bite too many, we can fall into disease.
like many other infections.
so don't worry, sweet pea!
he could just as easily have gotten it from his last girlfriend.
mo
Posted by LO2 (Member # 34170) on :
Well, there is an opinion exist in some circles that Lyme and co are coimletely fake direction and all we are dealing with some another kind of unknown infection.
And this infection is highly contagious(you can get it for example even if drink from the cup of the sick person etc), main sources of infection are sick people (i.e. ticks are not at "business" at all).
But not all people get the acute disease so in general it may looks like that somebody is not catching it for some time.
Just an opinion, for today there are no irrefutable evidence of it..as well as of Lyme and co theory.
Posted by LO2 (Member # 34170) on :
.....
Posted by lululymemom (Member # 26405) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kramberry: Why didnt you guys use protection? Considering you clearly know you have lyme.
Was your bf aware you have lyme before you started dating?
Are you using protection Kramberry? Cuz then everyone that is on here that is having sex should be using condoms?? Doesn't matter if you both have it.. You will keep passing it back and forth and never get better!!!!
Let's not assume something that has no scientific basis to be true!
Posted by FYRECRACKER (Member # 28568) on :
MO,
Does Dr K have scientific evidence to back up his statements?
Posted by Tammy N. (Member # 26835) on :
Lyme is a cousin Syphilis...which is sexually transmitted, so why wouldn't Lyme be?
Posted by dyna3495 (Member # 24126) on :
how he became infected is really irrelevant. All the symptoms you listed are exactly what I had. He has lyme! Do something about it sooner than later !
Posted by lululymemom (Member # 26405) on :
Dr. M. says this about the similarities between Lyme and Syphilis. Again there is no scientific basis for sexual transmission.
Syphilis and Lyme disease are both spirochetes and microscopically are identical in appearance. The infectivity is very immediate with Syphilis on sexual contact but not so with Lyme disease and therefore the comparison is questioned and differs.
Posted by Tammy N. (Member # 26835) on :
If it is in bodily fluids (semen, etc.) what would hold it back from going from one person to the next, especially during ejaculation?
Again, not everyone falls ill, so I think that's why some people say they don't think it's contagious. If a partner has a healthy immune system, it doesn't mean he/she will get sick.
Posted by James1979 (Member # 31926) on :
I remember a researcher saying that the spirochetes can even drill through your unbroken skin, and for that reason we should be careful when touching ticks with our bare hands.
If they can drill through our skin, I don't see why we wouldn't be cautious around ANY substances (including bodily fluids) that happen to have spirochetes in them.
Posted by FYRECRACKER (Member # 28568) on :
I'm not saying it's NOT sexually transmitted, but there is a lot of research and scientific evidence to be had before one can go around saying "don't drink from the same cup, you'll get Lyme." Doctor or not.
It's kind of irresponsible.
But if there is evidence that supports the theory, I'd love to read about it.
All I know is that none of my partners are ill.
It's not scientific, but I'm not going around saying it's impossible to transmit Lyme sexually either.
Posted by Mo (Member # 2863) on :
i have no idea if he has scientific proof of it, i tend to believe that by now we have all been exposed to/carry levels of a number of bugs.
it's not just the exposure question, when partners do not get sick. getting sick, or diseased (dis-EASE in the body) also depends on health condition at time of exposure, whether there have been multiple exposures, ect.
one bite too many can be the tipping point after one has been carrying infection asymptomatically. one could be asymptomatic and pass some Bb on.
mo
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
Dr B from Pa sequestered the spirochete in semen and has published his findings which can be found on line. I don't undertsnad why people think the syphillis kete is contagious, but the borrelia is not? Doesn't make sense.
Gael
Posted by lymielauren28 (Member # 13742) on :
Thanks for all the replies - a lot of interesting theories and opinions here:)
From Dyna: ��� �� � �� � � �� �� how he became infected is really irrelevant. All the symptoms you listed are exactly what I had. He has lyme! Do something about it sooner than later !
Agreed!!!
Posted by Kramberry (Member # 34032) on :
quote:Originally posted by stillwater: I prefer to err on the side of caution. Maybe that's because my wife and son also have Lyme. First me, then my son, then my wife.
We do not drink from each others glasses, use each others utentils and we never touch each others tissues. We weren't this careful before Lyme. I was the kind of dad who kissed his child on the lips. Not anymore.
Irresponsible? I think not. Doesn't cost anything to keep your potential germs to yourself.
So you think your son and wife might gotten it thru saliva from you?
Posted by Mindy159 (Member # 31149) on :
It's kind of scary to think how this thing passes onto other hosts.
I tend to think it follows in the Aids category with bodily fluids. I think it's better to be safe than sorry. Otherwise, we all risk giving it back and forth to our partners, and never getting well.
Lymielauren, I have everything on your list but the prostatitis.
Posted by kellyjk4 (Member # 19731) on :
I stopped reading the responses about halfway down (very tired today) so forgive me if someone has already said this.
First of all, my former LLMD was absolutely convinced that lyme can be sexually transmitted. He was concerned about me giving it my husband, then being reinfected. He trained with Dr B.
Just because an illness can be sexually transmitted, that doesn't mean that it will definitely be passed to everyone you sleep with.
There are a lot of factors that go into someone being infected.
Second, if I can give it my son congenitally, why not my husband, who I've been with for 17 years?
There is so much that we still don't know.
The responsible thing for anyone infected to do would be to protect their loved ones from infection, and themselves from reinfection.
Posted by IckyTicky (Member # 21466) on :
My husband got it from me and my younger two children were born with it. Sounds to me like your BF needs to see an LLMD
Posted by erikjh1972 (Member # 20964) on :
I would just like to point out to the people who say-- since it can be passed congenially then it must be able to be passed sexually.
there's a huge difference from actually having a human being grow inside of you using all your blood, cells, nutrients then it is to have sex with someone.
just sayin'.
Posted by lululymemom (Member # 26405) on :
Agreed! If this is passed along like HIV, then it is not only a crime to be having unprotected sex, it is immoral.. and those who are should be prosecuted like the ones that spread HIV knowingly. Should we really go there and have the laws changed, based on a hunch??
Posted by kellyjk4 (Member # 19731) on :
I'm aware there is a huge difference in having sex and having a child.
What I'm trying to say is that there is ALOT we still don't know about lyme, and about the transmission of the bacteria.
Some people do not believe it can be passed to a child, but it can.
If that's true, then is it so hard to believe that it can be passed through intercourse?
It's not worth the risk, in my opinion.
Posted by Lymedin2010 (Member # 34322) on :
The BB can burrow into ANY part of the body. Most have us have felt pains and aches from our toes to our heads and everywhere in between. BB can burrow from your mouth and into your saliva, into semen, vagina fluids, and EVEN urine.
Animals have spread BB via urine contact on skin, which is a beautiful and driving force for the spread of the disease for herding animals. If the organism can live in urine and make contact with skin, it can easily penetrate to ultimately cause infection. All this based upon the readings that I have done.
1-6% of mosquitos were found to have BB. My opinion is that not all mosquitos have this, but as the epidemic spreads and many more become carriers, then the percentage of mosquito carrying BB will increase. I believe it is possible to get LD from a mosquito that bites an infected individual to a non infected person shortly thereafter. Just pictures two people sitting in a car for an extended period of time with a mosquito that is trapped in there with you. Very easy to spread in the cyst form as it travels via bloodstream undetected by immunity and untouched by many antibiotics.
Posted by lymielauren28 (Member # 13742) on :
Stillwater, Haha, that's too funny:) But you're absolutely correct. And I'll leave it at that as well!
Even if we'd started out using protection, we do plan on getting married in the next couple of months, and since he'll soon be thirty and I'm about to turn 32, having a family is on our agenda. We both want children and as far as I know there's only one way to make that happen;)
Having children with Lyme is a whole 'nother ball of wax, but rest assured that I'll be working closely with my LLMD to make sure that it isn't passed on to my baby congenitally. Gosh this disease sucks!!!
Icky, he has an appt January 10th - that's the soonest he can get him in as a new patient.
Lymed - Im in total agreement with you on the mosquito thing and Ive speculated myself that this is probably how entire families are coming down with it. One mosquito in a house could do the trick!
Posted by Lymedin2010 (Member # 34322) on :
Older thread, but check out Billionaire John Caudwell's experience on familial & close contact transmission.
"Can billionaire John Caudwell's bombshell theory be right? Phone tycoon reveals ELEVEN of his family now have crippling Lyme disease and he believes it's passed on by other people NOT ticks"
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
NEWS: Recent study suggests that Lyme disease can be sexually transmitted
January 25, 2014 -
Posted by Clint31 (Member # 16420) on :
We'll never know the real answer.
If I ever thought I passed it on to my child, it would be enough to drive me over the edge and make me suicidal, perhaps quit altogether. It would be the final straw.
Posted by Lymedin2010 (Member # 34322) on :
Culture and identification of Borrelia spirochetes in human vaginal and seminal secretions [version 1; referees: 1 not approved]
Posted by Lymedin2010 (Member # 34322) on :
A story from a guy who contracted it from the tears of an infected person with Lyme:
"I got infected by a tear... I really don't want to go into all the details again... (I know I told Traveler and some other members on here may remember too).
But basically I met someone with Lyme disease, she had a tear that came from her eye while we were eating supper and she wiped the tear with her finger (used her index finger). I showed her something on my phone literally 5 mins later (bad idea to let other people touch your stuff).
So I assume the germs got on my fingers, they then got transmitted to my lips by complete accident. (I didn't wash my hands, which was really stupid, and I usually always wash my hands!) I know this because my very first symptom was just 24 hours later and it felt like my lips were vibrating... (or breathing)... From there it went systemic and I got other symptoms. I already knew that this person I met has Lyme disease and it was a pretty big deal to her, but when I met her she didn't really seem that sick... She was untreated and not even actively treating her infection. So that may partly explain why I got this. "
Posted by Haley (Member # 22008) on :
I'm just now noticing this is an old thread. I'm glad someone brought this back up as it has been on my mind.
I know the exact time that I was bitten by a tick I just did not know it was a tick bite at the time. I was diagnosed approximately two years later.
I do believe that I possibly have given it to my boyfriend. I have asked him several times to get a test. It seems that he really doesn't want to know if he has it. That's his choice and I respect his choice.
The problem is that I may be getting reinfected each time we are together. We do use protection, but it may even be in the saliva.
My theory is that even if someone has transferred the bug to someone else, the illness is much less severe. They do not have all of the other bugs that the tick carries. I believe that if he went on a short course of antibiotics that would solve the problem.
It will be interesting to follow the Caudwells. My sense is that Rufus, the son, was bitten by a tick. He is the sickest, maybe the others had it transmitted in some other way.
In the meantime I'm thinking of telling my boyfriend I don't want to see him anymore until he is tested. What would you do in my situation?
Posted by Lymedin2010 (Member # 34322) on :
I think that answer depends on how much you suffered & how much hell you went through with Lyme. Others who were not as sick still yet do not take it as seriously from what I have witnessed & hence the reason for the wide stream of opinion & dispositions.
Personally I would forgo walking on the grass or a relationship based upon my experiences. It is just not worth the hell from all directions that just spiral into an ever more engulfing wormhole.
Posted by Haley (Member # 22008) on :
Let's just say hell looks like heaven compared to what I've been through.
I am going to let him know how important this is and he needs to have the test .
Posted by Catgirl (Member # 31149) on :
I worried about the same thing when I was so sick and saw some symptoms in my husband. I think the person who actually gets bit is the sickest too.
IMO, life is way to short for me to worry about passing and re passing these bugs but that's just me. Actually, my husband feels the same way. I also think most people have lyme and most don't even know they have it (JMO).
Posted by Lymedin2010 (Member # 34322) on :
I think so too Catgirl. I was one of those guys who had it for years & I was always tired and with constant headaches. I just never knew it could be an ongoing infection, let alone LD.
My wife is another one as well, as I imagine that I passed it onto her since she rarely went on the grass & is not an outdoors type person. Little by little she has developed odd symptoms that she could have easily attributed to wear & tear.
Imagine the predicament the CDC is in if what we are really seeing is that infection does not necessarily mean disease. How could one claim then that they are experiencing all these symptoms & pain, when the next person with the same bacteria feels nothing & could care less?
Posted by bohomojo (Member # 44000) on :
My question regarding this is - what about the co-infections?
Lyme is a spirochete and so it makes sense that it is an STD. But nobody just gets Lyme Disease - there are always co-infections involved. So are they STD's too?
I hope there are more studies done on this.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- IMO, any infection that can be fluid or blood exchanged is also something to consider with intimacy.
But, I would like to see the STD or STI stigma labeled dropped and just everyone now that exchange of bodily fluids can carry various microbes. Also more educations about bleeding gums and high that raises the chances of sharing.
Bartonella is absolutely able to pass in utero, too. I'm sure there are others. Good point bohomojo (love your name!).
A couple weeks ago, there was a news report of a "newly" discovered mycoplasma that can be acquired with intimacy. Nothing new, there, IMO, and likely not at all the only mycoplasma that can be shared. -
Posted by Clint31 (Member # 16420) on :
asked my LLMD about the fetus getting lyme and co from the mother last week. My wife is a few weeks pregnant with our second child.
He said that the baby "should be protected" in what he knows about it but that there is also some gray area, and to keep a watchful eye.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
mo