I have become fascinated with the idea that oral spirochetes and lyme spirochetes may live in the gum tissue and spread to the brain through infection and or root canals.
I have had tick bites in the past but when I became sick I wasn't able to identify it with a recent bite...nor did I have a rash. What I did have though was gingivitis and then gum surgery. It was about half a year later that I began feeling ill and then....bam.....I was deathly ill.
How many people here with lyme have had gingivitis, gum surgery or a root canal? It would be interesting to take an informal poll, don't ya think? Maybe people who are infected with the lyme spirochete but who are NOT sick....have healthy gums and no root canals?
Posted by daystar1952 (Member # 3255) on :
That is interesting. I think people need to check on this information. I am looking more into my dental history and have just oredered both of Dr. Nordquist's books on the subject of oral spirochetosis
Posted by nonna05 (Member # 33557) on :
I have a few root canals. BUT there's one stinker that keeps hurting... When I finally got a Pulmonary doc to put me on abx's long term, the pain would ease up..
.When off/or on wrong combo ,pain back... I also have a three layer deep scare in same area...
.This also happened with ear pain , kinda behind left ear. Posted by daystar1952 (Member # 3255) on :
There may be some dentists who may look at a sample from the gums somewhere near the root canals to see if there are oral or lyme spirochetes. The was my impression anyway from watching the videos online
Posted by CountryMouse (Member # 32073) on :
I have two root canals and three crowns on vital teeth. I have noticed that during the times when the Lyme is particularly active, my teeth and jaw joints hurt. And I also have several gum areas that are always tender and bleed no matter how often I floss.
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Had my root canal teeth removed. Tough decision but they had hurt for years and dentist that did them thought I was nuts.
Bio dentist extracted them, one required clean out up into the sinus were he removed a cyst. Guess I wasn't nuts after all!
Ugh. I go in Monday to find out if I need to get my root-canaled teeth taken care of. I have 7 root canals, all on the right side.
This is the side I have all my pain. It's always been that jaw, that eye, that ear, and the tingling was in the right side of my face down my right arm and leg.
While I'm not excited about having teeth pulled, if this took care of my infections in 48 hours, I would be one happy Momma!!! Certainly I'm dreaming.
Posted by daystar1952 (Member # 3255) on :
Hi Jackie 51!
I'm curious.....do you remember if any of your root canaled teeth were done before you became sick with lyme? So...you are thinking about having those teeth pulled?
I had all my silver fillings removed and that seemed to bring me to a little bit better level of wellness.
Posted by jackie51 (Member # 14233) on :
My teeth were root canaled over the years, before I knew I had lyme and some after. I only learned of lyme maybe 4 years ago?
I didn't know of the connection between lyme, jaw pain, infected dead teeth, blah, blah, until recently.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
[ 10-14-2011, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: GiGi ]
Posted by jackie51 (Member # 14233) on :
Gigi--huh? What does the body lice have to do with bad teeth?
Posted by jdp710 (Member # 34017) on :
I enjoyed reading Dr. Nordquist's book second book The Silent Saboteur. I haven't read his first book though.
The take home message I got from the book is that it may not just be the borrelia spirochete but other spirochetes as well. The info about horizontal gene transfer is also good as well.
Make sure you highlight key parts of the book though.
To answer your question I've never had a root canal or cavity for that matter. I did suffer from gingivitis for many years though. Not anymore though. Unfortunately I still suffer from what appear to be CCSVI issues though.
Posted by daystar1952 (Member # 3255) on :
The books of his that I ordered should be coming Monday. I'm looking forward to reading them. What are CCSVI issues, if I may ask?
Posted by amk33 (Member # 13206) on :
I had all my silver fillings replaced by a regular dentist right before becoming ill.
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
A simple remedy that stopped my gums from bleeding was drinking mangosteen juice, which I still do.
A easy way to reduce gum pain is via an Ayurvedic remedy - swish a small amount of sunflower or sesame oil around in the mouth, then spit out after 20 minutes.
Posted by lymenotlite (Member # 33166) on :
I'm going to start a thread about amalgam illness. There is a way to deal with mercury and heavy metal toxicity.
Posted by daystar1952 (Member # 3255) on :
Robin...that is a good point. I have started using coconut oil to "oil pull" with. I wish it was more comfortable to do but my face gets tired swishing the oil for 15 to 20 minutes.:>)
I still do it tho but not every day. Bruce Fife has several books about coconut oil and its benefits and one of the books includes oil pulling in the title. This process is supposed to suck all of the bacteria and other junk out of any pockets in the gums...etc. I recently read Fife's newest book which I feel is his best book yet..."Stop Alzheimer's Now" . My review is here http://lymesentinel.blogspot.com/2011/07/stop-alzheimers-now.html
He talks about Lyme disease in his book and about Judith Miklossy's study with the Alzheimer brains. I think that Dr. Nordquist, Dr. Bruce Fife, Judith Miklossy and Alan MacDonald are all on the same page and with a promising super focus that may at least partially explain our pandemic of degenerative disease.
Poor modern processed food diets create a weak immune system which allows our oral cavity to become weak and compromised ...which in turn allows the germs to pass through into the blood stream and the brain....where they don't normally reside. I think I got that right :>)
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Dr. K. told me and is continuing to teach doctors and dentists that he wishes the two professions would just once in a while meet in the cafeteria. He wishes they would exchange information to once and for all find out the misery they create by putting root canals into people's mouth as they are being done today.
A root canal is a dead tooth. We embalm dead bodies by law for obvious reasons - we don't want the escaping toxins to affect the environment. It is not much different in the mouth.
Root canals create thioethers and mercaptan which has been found to be the most vicious carcinogen. Root canals and breast cancer go together. "Druckey, a very astute microbiologist and MD from the University of Heidelberg found these dental toxins to be the world's most perfect carcinogen. Creating an appearance and function of a malignant cell until the carcinogenic dose was reached." spoken by a scientist who has done research here on hundreds of root canals and himself was in a wheelchair until he cleaned out hiw own mouth.
Nobody knows when this "carcinogenic dose" is reached. Everybody is a little bit different. 6 months, 6 years, or 22 years.
I myself had 12 root canals the day I first saw Dr. K. He is a very compassionate man and only gently beats around the bush. Almost the first sentence "open your mouth" and then "if you want to live, these have got to go."
I did. I did what I sensed and knew before I saw him. None of my teeth hurt, but I was always scared to see another receding gum. I lost all my teeth, because one root canal tied by bridge to another root canal destroyed the supporting tooth, etc. etc. etc. and over the years I ended up with one more and one more root canal. I cared and spent a lot on my teeth.
The infection spreads along the jawbones -- causing wormholes in the bone and cavitations that stop good blood perfusion. The rest is no surprise. Bugs move in - because that is a perfect living quarter for them.
I had the surgeries done within a month, no teeth left. You loose one bridge, you loose the next tooth, bridge, etc. etc. I took plenty of flak by other dentists who to this very day install amalgam and root canals. Most of these dentists are already not well. Some now seek out teachers who can tell them why they feel not well. The one who did a root canal on me 30 years ago was already suffering from hip problems. I didn't know then that I was on a dangerous course. I attended a seminar once by Dr. K. for 24 dentists - everyone sick.
But from the time of removal, I started to improve and after a lot of detoxing and eradicating the microorganisms I got well. It still took me five years.
I got Lyme with an insect bite in 1996, age 65, removed teeth after my first Dr. K. appointment in 1998, and I will celebrate my 80th birthday well and healthy in less than two months.
Good teeth are vital. Root canals almost cost me my life. And my husband, a little older than I, is still paying the price - in a wheelchair, very ill, from something babesia-like that is destroying his red blood cells.
Do the right thing.
Take care.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
From the moment of amalgam installation, the mercury escapes (with chewing, drinking, talking) and moves into the central nervous system, mostly the brain and gut.
With removal of the amalgams, the work is not done. Then comes the detoxing of the various body compartments, which is a lot easier today than it was when I started it. But removal of the amalgams alone does not much, except that it stops the source of dental mercury. The surrounding areas still need to detox and will for many months/years.
Parasites are hanging on to a lot of toxic metals actually protecting us. But some of them also eat us out of house and home while there. Treat parasites early. Look at my post talking about the Babuschka Principle. http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/101357?
Good luck to all of you interested.
Posted by jdp710 (Member # 34017) on :
quote:Originally posted by daystar1952: What are CCSVI issues, if I may ask?
Brain issues.
Here is a good link. Scroll 1/3 way down for CCSVI info.
"Out of 38 Lyme patients Dr. K had scanned for CCSVI, all 38 were highly positive."
If you search on youtube has some experiences as well.
Posted by Cass A (Member # 11134) on :
Thanks for this thread!
I recently became very interested in oral spirochetes, which under a microscope are indistinguishable from Lyme, and also that Lyme-type cysts, usually termed "spores" are also found in people's mouths.
I had my one root canal tooth taken out about a year or so ago, and had all my amalgam fillings replaced many years ago, but not by a biological dentist--so had no protection from fumes, etc., at the time.
Currently, I've been taking the chlorella and cilantro as recommended by Dr. K. I felt this was safe for me at this point, due to previous chelations and having completed Allergie-Immune.
This has resulted in improvements in clearer thinking pretty much every day.
Below is a copy of the transcription of comments on a YouTube video of oral spirochetes. Note: my husband is not pleased about the recommendation to use Clorox, even in a dilute form. I'm currently using food-grade hydrogen peroxide, diluted, in a commercially available mouthwash called HPM. This transcript says that long-term use of hydrogen peroxide has problems, but does not state what these problems are. At this point, that is what I prefer to use.
Best,
Cass A
Here's the transcript:
These clusters of spirochetes are a strange phenomena. We do not know what this behavior is about. These spirochetes are microscopically indistinguishable from syphilis or lyme disease spirochetes. Oral spirochetes have been found in the brains of alzheimer's patients. We believe that oral spirochetes are the primary injurious agent in two other chronic diseases that plague man, heart disease and diabetes. These things breed by the trillions in the gingival sulcus and invade into the body by millions moving via the de-epitheliazed gingival sulcus into the blood stream then into cells found along the blood stream. Primarily the endothelial cells lining blood vessels, and the Islets of langerhans cells in the pancreas...
We have not seen anyone with heart disease or diabetes who are not infected with oral spirochetes. Recent papers have proven the alzeheimers plaques are created by these spirochetes which breed in the crevice between the tooth and the gum and under plaque bacteria. The use of tooth cleaning agents will not remove these spirochetes. The only effective methods we have found is Dakins solution. Vigorous rinses for at least two minutes with Dakins or Dakins in a WaterPic�. The use of the Dakins which is a 20:1 dilution of clorox bleach is by far the most effective technique for killing spirochetes in between the teeth as well as the more accessible areas. Tooth pastes are good for cleaning teeth! But this is a different problem entirely. Spirochetes form spores which require daily disinfection of the crevice between the tooth and gum. The only thing which will dissolve plaque(the vegetative bacteria which cause tooth decay) off a tooth surface without friction is clorox diluted in water at a 20:1 water/clorox ratio. This material is cheap effective and absolutely works but no one can sell it to you for a high price, so not one cent of marketing money will be spent to educate the public! This is tragic in the extreme.
We have research grade microscopes to show the spirochetes. The only effective techniques involve using bactericidal materials such as clorox and high concentrations of baking soda... Other things such as hydrogen peroxide, povidone iodine, chlorhexidiene, and table salt have drawbacks in daily use.
Tooth pastes are valuable in stopping and treating tooth decay, but flossing and brushing with tooth paste or oral rinses with items such as OTC mouth washes, will not guarantee a kill, and in comparison to clorox are very expensive over a lifetime.
Patients wonder if clorox is toxic. While it tastes terrible, it is harmless when diluted to 0.3 percent, that is a 20:1 dilution of 6% clorox. Clorox turns into table salt in the stomach if swallowed. There will be some initial stinging of the skin in the mouth when first used! That goes away when the skin heals after a few uses. Use at night before going to bed and do not rinse the mouth after. If irritation develops move to mornings. Use at night when saliva flow shuts down will keep the material killing for a longer time when not rinsed out.. Finally, we have tried them all and brushing with copious amounts of baking soda forcing it into the gums and in between the teeth one time daily and then using a WaterPic� with the dilute clorox solution will give the best results. What are those results? Absolutely no leakage of the seal where the tooth come out of the skin. The Gum is a specialized tissue designed to seal the skeleton where it come out thru the skin. The teeth are the only part of the skeleton which is out side the skin... So it cannot heal itself. Use of a good fluoride tooth paste at night will do much to stop tooth decay. Never eating sugar or carbohydrates between meals will assure no tooth decay in those with normal saliva.
Posted by daisys (Member # 11802) on :
Daystar1952, thank you!
I did know something was wrong in my mouth all the years I was ill, not knowing the cause. Dentists would chew me out for not taking care of my teeth. When I told them I put a lot of effort into cleaning them, they either outright told me they didn't believe me, or gave me a look that said the same.
Before I found out I had Lyme Disease, I used to have a remission of a sorts, and relapse when stressed. I was feeling relatively well, and had my teeth cleaned. My hygenist talked me into having laughing gas and gave me a shot, so she could do deep cleaning.
That was a mighty long hour, and I didn't feel like laughing. I wondered if I could even make it home as I left. After that, I got worse fast and believe I would've shortly died if I hadn't stumbled on a LLMD, who spotted the Lyme disease the first glance at my history.
I have at least one root canal now. I had an implant after popcorn broke a root, and that may have been my other root canal tooth. I'll have to ask about that.
After LD treatment started, my gums got pretty good, and my teeth haven't been rotting on me. All my amalgums have been changed out, but I'm not sure what the replacement is, except it doesn't have mercury in it.
I love the info about coconut oil--I use the flour, oil, amino acids, vinegar, and evaporated nectar sap. Looks like I just found another use for the oil--not only do I cook with it, I use it to control roseacea.
My question is: Does insurance generally co-operate with this issue, or do I pay for all of the removal of the tooth, and the bridge or implant?
Posted by Catgirl (Member # 31149) on :
I've been bit several times. The last bite I had though, caused a lot of dental issues for me. It was about two weeks after I was bit that I was clenching my jaw non stop. Then my crowns (front teeth) started to feel like pins and needles). I couldn't figure out what was wrong with them. Went to the dentist and he said they weren't loose or anything.
I got my crowns re done because I thought maybe I had cavities under them (there weren't any). About a month later, the pins and needles went away there.
I also had a nerve that was bothering one of my teeth from clenching (at least that's what the dentist said).
Shortly after that, whenever I flossed (which I have done every single day of my adult life--long time), my teeth and gums hurt. I thought that maybe I was missing something (you know that pain when you leave a small piece of something behind). But that wasn't it.
Then after I finally got diagnosed and started abx, my teeth started turning brown (think it was diflcan or abx). So I started to brush and floss after everything I ate. The more I flossed, though, the more my gums hurt.
It seemed to me (just speculating) that perhaps the lyme spirochetes thought something was biting me where I was flossing and decided to rush to the scene. So, I quit flossing after every meal and the gum pain went away.
Then when I changed abx, no more problems. Except for the nerve pain on that one tooth.
Gigi's info/history is an eye opener, for sure (I can't believe you went through that Gigi ).
I really don't know what to do about the amalgams. I have a lot of them, and I have a lot of metals in me too (doctors data test). I am considering having them removed, just in case that one tooth gets worse. But removing them puts me in the risk category of acquiring more metals as does keeping my amalgams in. Seems like it would be about the same exposure (6 in 1).
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
one root canal which got infected and had to be redone.
one three tooth bridge, done twice.
now have constant jaw and teeth pain. i have a ton of fillings but dentist assures me they are the "new" amalgrams and not metals or something.
who knows? but i sure do hurt.
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
I just finally did periodontal root scaling (I have no root canals--lose a tooth when it goes to the nerve). Boy that took a lot out of me, plus I took amoxicillin each time just to be on the safe side. I desperately needed it. If you do that, you cut your risk of heart disease in HALF--just by getting all that plaque and bacteria out.
I also am using the hydrofloss daily. I recommend it. It puts a magnetic charge into the water, so that bacteria can't adhere to your teeth and gums. I did that for a few weeks before the scaling and it already made a big difference.
My gums don't bleed anymore, at all, and they used to bleed every time I brushed.
I now just have to detox all that stuff...because at my bimonthly (every other week) IV nutrition/glutathione at my doc's, my blood came out darker than I've ever seen it. My nurse commented, too. I know that's because so much gunk went into my blood from all that root scaling.
It was years overdue. I'd been warned to do it years ago back in NY. I just was too ill back then.
Anyway, it's very important to deep clean the gums, even periodontal. It really is. Otherwise you have a permanent home for lots of bad bacteria and it's just as bad as a root canal.
Posted by wrotek (Member # 5354) on :
Very good thread. My first Lyme symptoms were teeth pain , TMJ which lasts till today. I had 4 wisdom teeth removed, wore TMJ-teeth-covering devide to relieve apparent nightly grinding/clenching and improper alignment. This was suppose to help my TMJ. Now i know it is because of spiros. Currently Trying to use ozone in waterpic and h202 to get rid of them.
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