I have Lyme and Bart and Babs (duncani) and have been on abx for 8 months now - huge improvements with essentials such as vision, brain function (esp. memory), pain, and other very specific symptoms: sweats, coughing, nerve conduction problems, dyslexia, joint pain, etc.
My liver has been carefully monitored by a very good LLMD and it has gradually gotten worse.
So I wanted to get off the abx for my liver and to see where we are with the diseases and my immune system and my LLMD suggested I migt try the Cowden Support Protocol "while I am off the abx". My LLMD does not want me to slide back and loose the gains we made.
When I read about Cowden, I got very excited and am considering to do the 6 months Lyme protocol. It is expensive and not supported by insurance, so I am asking myself two questions:
1. Does it really work, possibly as well as abx without the toxicity?
2. Would I be done after 6 months? I mean, if it really worked this well, why isn't everyone cured with this?
Would anybody be able to help with these questions?
Any comments appreciated very much!
Thanks and Good Luck to All,
Harmony
Posted by joalo (Member # 12752) on :
Up for input.
Posted by annxyzz (Member # 20404) on :
In a test tube , samento and banderol were found to kill lyme by Dr Eva Sapi . If I tried that , I would add grapefruit seed extract as a possible cyst buster , I would also add artemesia annua by Herb Pharm which hits many pathogens .
There is a liver regenerator product by "NOW " that is rated as VERY effective , and another called LIV 52 that has great reviews . The Now product aalso has some reduced glutathione, which is helpful . Either of these will help your liver .
Posted by Kristen J. (Member # 24566) on :
My ND says that herbs can raise liver enzymes more than antibiotics. I take herbs but they are not necessarily easier on liver. But Doc thinks my severe liver damage if from lyme and parasites. so got kill critters to get liver better.
Posted by Harmony (Member # 32424) on :
Thank you all for the responses!
Kristen, are you saying **all** herbs raise liver enzymes? If not, which ones do you think are the ones? Are they part of the Cowden protocal, do you know? Thanks so much again!
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I tried the Cowden protocol but it didn't really "cure" me. We all are different, though. I think my health issues are mostly from other parasites & not necessarily Lyme + co-infections.
My observation is that they don't seem have enough "umph". I did herx from some of them - but I think it was because I didn't know I had parasites. Cumanda, Enula, & Quina were killers. I could just take 1 or 2 drops at first. I thought it was due to Lyme but in retrospect I think it was parasites that caused the extreme reaction.
You may be able to find a cheaper alternative. It's good because everything is layed out but I think they may be a bit overpriced. It's more complicated - but you may be better picking & choosing the supplements/herbs.
Maybe check into Stephen Buhner? Sorry to make things more complicated but none of this is easy - unfortunately...
Posted by Kristen J. (Member # 24566) on :
I think most do that kill bugs, except Mimosa Pudica, it's supposed to have liver protective properties. It's important to check enzymes often. I take glutathion, do coffee enemas, castor oil packs. I think the idea is to kill bugs and help the liver as well.
Posted by beths (Member # 18864) on :
The only time my liver enzymes when up was when I added the Cowden herbs
Didn't think they helped
Posted by PatriotM (Member # 38493) on :
I have had Lyme for over 10 years and initially went through 6 weeks of IV antibiotics plus 6 months of oral antibiotics. That did make things much better for a short period of time. To make a long story short, I've been having recurrances of different severity for 10 years and just decided to "live with it", because the local doctors seemed clueless as to what to do. Recently, I've had a fairly severe relapse and it became clear that I must do something.
Thanks to this forum, I found an ILADS MD who is also a Naturopath and who has lyme disease herself. I had my first appointment with her yesterday and WOW was it refreshing to talk to someone who understands the symptoms that lyme disease patients have. As many of you understand, when you talk to normal MD's about your symptoms, they think your just plain crazy (even though in my case I've had multiple blood tests that comfirm Lyme).
Getting back to the topic at hand....the Lyme doctor that I'm seeing has studied with some of the top lyme disease doctors in the country and does both anti-biotic and/or naturopathic treatment. I asked her which treatment was more effective and she said that the results were about the same. She said that she prefers the naturopathic method (fewer side effects) but that she does antibiotic treatment because most of the public wants antibiotics as that's what they are familiar with (i.e. that's what the public demands). Anyway, I started the Cowden Protocol today and am looking forward to having my symptoms improve.
Harmony, in answer to your question, whether you do antibiotics or a natural treatment, I think it's quite possible that you will NEVER be done with treatment. At least in my case, it's lasted over 10 years and my latest relapse is as bad now as it was initially more than 10 years ago. However, I if I understood my new Lyme doctor correctly, I believe that after the Cowden protocol is complete and the infections and toxins are knocked down, that I should be able to go onto a "maintenance program" that should keep the symptoms away and not involve a high expense. That is my goal.
In addition, the reading that I've done lately seems to say that the damage that Lyme does to the immune system may hurt the body's cancer fighting ability. I think it's important to do some sort of treatment for that reason alone.
Posted by surprise (Member # 34987) on :
Could you please keep us updated on how you do with the Cowden protocol?
I am considering it for my daughter.
I am doing a combo of antibiotics and herbs, mostly antibiotics.
She has been on antibiotics longer than I have.
Thanks for sharing.
Posted by PatriotM (Member # 38493) on :
Yes, I'll definitely keep you updated. I'm very disciplined and will follow the protocol EXACTLY, so it should be a good test - at least for me.
Posted by Harmony (Member # 32424) on :
Update:
As most of you know, with Lyme it is hard to tell what's going on for several valid reasons: too many co-infections, Herxing versus getting worse is hard to distinguish, too many other live influences to isolate cause and effect of any one thing, it is the nature of Lyme symptoms to fluctuate anyway, etc.
So, I cannot say for sure, but so far, I have the impression that the Cowden Protocol was the right choice for me, due to several observations:
my numbness and tingeling in the hands has stopped for the first time in months, I developed a nasty cough that first burned in my brochi and now is slowly getting better (nematodes? or elimination of toxic herbs? through the lungs - who knows, but I am guessing it is shifting parasites that are exiting through my lungs - have heard of this with Lyme), I had a lot of CNS symptom flares and now feel relieve from those for the first time in a long time - feel like it took me to the next level of emotional/mental wellness again, that was sorely missed, better stress tolerance in life again
I am on day #29 and am also very systematic in taking the prescribed doses not sure it would work for you - these are just my observations
good luck to you, each and every one, you deserve to be heard, helped, and get your life and hapiness back!!!
Posted by surprise (Member # 34987) on :
Nice update, Harmony!
I switched out Tindamax to Samento- I do feel/see it working...
Posted by ukcarry (Member # 18147) on :
Thanks for keeping us informed, Harmony and good luck.
Posted by dbpei (Member # 33574) on :
Thanks, Harmony. So glad this seems to be helping you. I started Byron White herbs 2+ weeks ago and I also feel something happening in my body that is different from the way I have felt with ABX alone. I am also still on ABX for babs treatment. My goal is to eventually just use the herbs.
I look forward to hearing how you are doing in the next few months. Good luck!
Posted by PatriotM (Member # 38493) on :
I promised to give updates on my experience with the Cowden Protocol. I'm currently on Day 13 of the Cowden Protocol and have followed it exactly. So far, I've had four very bad days while on the protocol: days 3, 4, 6, and 7. On those days, my symptoms were much worse; I had symptoms recur that I haven't had in several years; and I even had new symptoms that I've never had. As a couple of examples of these new symptoms, my right arm suddenly went completely numb from the shoulder all the way to my fingertips, and I had a couple of episodes of sweating with the feeling of a fever (which I didn't have). I also had moderate flu-like symptoms.
I have no idea if these were some sort of herx reaction; simply new lyme symptoms; or something else. It seems strange to me that I would have a herx reaction on days 3, 4, 6, and 7 of the Cowden Protocol when the dosage of the herbs was so low.
Anyway, after day 7, I began to improve significantly. For the past year, I have had a SEVERE headache and stiff next nearly every day. Today is the 4th day in a row (so far) that I haven't had a severe headache. My neck is still stiff, but better. One of the wierd symptoms that I had was a very painful and swollen left achilles tendon. I've had that for many months and it was so bad that I could not descend the stairs in the morning without holding both handrails. Obviously, I didn't injure my achilles tendon, that symptom just started by itself one day many months ago. At any rate, for the first time in months, I am walking almost normally (without a limp) and the pain is SIGNIFICANTLY better. I can now descend the stairs without holding a hand rail.
Again, I have no idea if this has anything to do with the Cowden protocol or if the improvment is just a coincidence. It seems very early for the treatment to have done this, but who knows.
Some of my many other symptoms are still unchanged, such as a shoulder that feels like it's out of joint, various swollen and sore joints, etc, etc, etc.
I'm hoping that this improvement is due to the Cowden protocol and that things continue to improve. I'll write other updates as conditions warrant.
Posted by annxyzz (Member # 20404) on :
patriot , have you had lyme a long time- longer than 2 years?
Posted by PatriotM (Member # 38493) on :
Diagnosed in 2001, but probably really had it since about 1989 and repeatedly misdiagnosed until 2001. The typical story, I guess.
Posted by ukcarry (Member # 18147) on :
Thanks, PatriotM and do please continue to report on your experience with Cowden herbs,
All the best,
Carry
Posted by surprise (Member # 34987) on :
Thanks for the update-
My daughter is on day 4.
I am on antibiotics, but am taking Samento as my cyst buster- really upped it last few days, and feel like I'm herxing.
Also started walking (exercising) again, but have a feeling it's the Samento. Skipped it this morning.
I really hope this works out for my daughter. Antibiotics aren't for her anymore.
Posted by Harmony (Member # 32424) on :
Sad to say I had to stop Cowden for the time being:
I think it has helped me (nerve conduction is back in my hands, sleep through the night, and some Herx in my lungs, etc.) but it did not keep Bartonella in check, it seems...
I started having terrible days again and it got worse day by day - so I skipped a day of the drops to see if they caused it and I could reduce the Herxing but it got worse
not sure, but I could not wait, and decided that the Bart was really on the rise again and this was not a Herx, so I went back on Abx and starting to stabilize again, thank God!
(my worst symptomns: depression, uncontrollable crying spells, mental paralysis, extreme fear, to the point where picking out vegetables in the grocery store becomes an insurmountable challenge, and physical sypmtoms such as burning and tingeling in the soles of my feet and ankles and continuous, low-level twitching of my calf muscles)
I will try Cowden again a little later, I think
Posted by dbpei (Member # 33574) on :
This illness is just so complicated. I am glad you are so in tune with your body and knew the right thing to do for yourself. What ABX are you on now that are helping you?
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- I can't find it now but I thought you asked about Buhner or other herbal options.
I see now that you restarted abx so I hope that goes well. Your liver support may need some adjustment?
LIVER SUPPORT & and several HERXHEIMER support links, too.
Some KIDNEY support detail, and
LL ND (naturopathic) link here, too.
------------------------
"extreme fear" in the grocery store is likely from sensory overload (especially if you have any inner ear / balance issues) or chemical sensitivity. Adrenal support may help.
Topic: RIFE Machine - Reference LINKS -
Posted by PatriotM (Member # 38493) on :
My intention was to give an update on my progress with the Cowden Protocol every couple of weeks, but something so surprising has happened that I thought I would report it.
I am currently on day 21 of the Cowden Protocol and at full dosage on all the herbs. So far, I have had five very bad days. These were on days 3,4,6,7,and 13 of the Cowden Protocol. As I described in my last update, I don't know if these were herxes or just normal fluctuations in symptoms. What is very remarkable is that I have now had a 5 day stretch and a 3 day stretch free of severe headaches and severe stiff necks. This is the first time in over a year that I've had so many days in a row without a severe headache and severe stiff neck. Moreover, and to my complete surprise, after MANY MONTHS of walking with a limp due to a very painful and swollen left achilles tendon, when I woke up on day 19 of the Cowden Protocol(September 17th) my achilles tendon was PAIN FREE and I was able to not only walk up and down the stairs without pain and without holding the handrails, I was able to RUN up and down the stairs. For me, this was nothing short of a miracle. The swelling in the ball (joints) of my right foot seems to also be getting better and the pain there is improved also (although certainly not gone).
That's not to say that everything is great. I still have a shoulder that feels like it's out of joint; a swollen and painful knee, a painful elbow, etc. My short term memory is still not even close to being right. My speech is lacking. But that achilles tendon getting better is a BIG DEAL and hopefully a good first step! I've got to admit that I was a little skeptical when my new LLMD said that the achilles problem was due to my lyme problems, but it appears (at least so far) that the Cowden Protocol is healing it.
I'll keep you posted.
Posted by surprise (Member # 34987) on :
Thanks for updating!
My daughter is on day 13- she is 7, so half the doses on the 'killers', but all 10 drops on detoxes,
her bowels are completely regulated, and the maturity on how she is handling a few things are new as well, however,
definitely seeing die off/herx from the Samento and Banderol. It makes home life challenging.
But we are going through.
Posted by Marz (Member # 3446) on :
It's amazing the good results you're having Patriot.
Harmony, I too gave up Cowden on the 6th month when my headache/stiff neck came back with a vengeance.
Until then I was doing so well and thought at first it might be a herx, but it went on too long.
A new LLMD suspects bartonella so took me off Cowden and am on rifampin for 3 weeks and this is very rough.
Kind of wish I wouldn't have given it up but hope when I come out the other end of rifampin I'll get back on it to maintain.
Posted by PatriotM (Member # 38493) on :
Surprise, I can only imagine how difficult it is for a 7 year old (and her parents) to go through all this. I'll say a prayer for her!
Marz, wow, that's upsetting to get all the way to the 6th month and to then have your symptoms return. Hope the rifampin works!
Posted by surprise (Member # 34987) on :
PatriotM, thanks for the prayers---always good.
By the way, I am using Samento, up to 16 drops 2x a day, yes I feel it.
Also going to start Banderol since I have it, too, as daughter only doing 1/2 doses of these.
I am also on antibiotics (she is not anymore.)
Posted by PatriotM (Member # 38493) on :
I'm on day 34 of the Cowden Protocol and wanted to provide another update.
So far, I've had 5 VERY BAD DAYS, which may or may not have been herxes.
I have kept a running chart of symptoms and their severity since I started on the Cowden protocol. As of yesterday, I still had 18 individual symptoms. These symptoms are things such as headache, stiff neck, knee pain, numbness in fingers, etc, etc, etc.
The good news is that some of my worst symptoms are getting significantly better. As I reported in my last update, after more than a year of limping due to a swollen and painful achilles tendon, on day 19, I woke up with MUCH less achilles tendon pain and have been able to walk without a limp since then. In fact, on most days, my walking is now normal and pain free! THAT IS HUGE!
Another very significant symptom that I've had nearly every day for over a year are SEVERE HEADACHES and SEVERE STIFF NECKS. Since starting the Cowden Protocol, I've now had a 5 day and a 3 day period without a SEVERE headache or SEVERE stiff neck and I've now had a 5 day period (Sept 24-28) without any headache at all! After having a severe headache and severe stiff neck nearly every day for over a year - that's progress.
I still have a long way to go. My speech and word-finding abilities are not where they should be. I still have many neurologic symptoms. However, I'm happy with the results so far.
Posted by dbpei (Member # 33574) on :
That's great news, Patriot! Thanks for keeping us updated. It gives us all hope.
Posted by RZR (Member # 20953) on :
Wonderful! Hope you continue to improve.
Posted by Rivendell (Member # 19922) on :
Somebody wanted to know about other herbal alternatives than Cowden.
Byron White herbs address lyme and co-infections.
Also Beyond Balance herbs do the same thing.
Both must be purchased through your doctor, although you can go to the website of Beyond Balance, contact the maker of Beyond Balance herbs, and work directly with them by getting a saliva test. Then you can buy the herbs directly from them.
[ 10-05-2012, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: Rivendell ]
Posted by MattH (Member # 30846) on :
I am on ABX for about 14 months. I have been improving since month 5 to about month 10. Then I seemed to stall. I have added the Samento, Banderol and Cumada at 20 drops twice a day at month 12 and am beginning month 3. I take Serrapeptase 3 times a day for biofilms.
I seem to be improving again but not real fast but better than in month 10. I am using a lot of herbs to go after parasites so that could be helping also. My memory, sleep and energy have improved, so I would say I am about 60 to 65 percent. I will start hitting the gym lightly in a couple of weeks. I stopped the Rifampin because of side effects but may return to it because of Bart symptoms in the lower leg the persists.
However I think the big issue holding me back is parasites so I am going after that with herbs and then may get off both Cowden and ABX and go with a PE-1. I have two boys with Lyme also and they are improving but I think the PE-1 can finish us up better than the ABX.
I have not had much herx other than being very tired on the weekends. I go hard at work all week and crash on the weekends but even that is getting better.
All the Best, MattH
Posted by PatriotM (Member # 38493) on :
I'm now on day 44 of the Cowden Protocol and today have big news for my update. Before I get to that, let me quickly discuss the progress on my symptoms
So far, I've now had 9 VERY BAD DAYS, which is 4 more than my last update only 10 days ago. My LLMD thought this was a herx. On the good side, today is (so far) the third day in a row without any headache at all. I'm also still walking normally, after limping for over a year.
My other symptoms are essentially unchanged since my update 10 days ago.
The big news is that I had my second appoint with my LLMD yesterday. As you may recall, I had FIFTY vials of blood drawn after my first appointment and got the results of all those tests yesterday.
My Lyme test came back Igenex IgG Positive with band 39+ and band 41++. The IgM was positive as far as my LLMD was concerned but not by Igenex with band 31 IND, band 39 IND, band 41++, and bands 83-93 IND.
Most concerning to me was the LabCorp CD57+ test which came back with a 26.
My MSH was low. I was positive for c. pneumoniae, coxsackie B virus, EBV, and had antibodies for Parvo B19 (whatever that is - maybe I'm part dog?). I was also positive for M Pneumo and had high Homocysteine, although I've already forgotten what she said that meant.
My LLMD was happy with my progress on the Cowden Protocol and I'll be continuing it. She added B Vitamin Complex and Vitamin D to my meds.
I asked her if there was an herbal medicine for my headaches and she suggested that I try "Fever Few". I also asked her about an herbal medicine for nausea and she suggested ginger. I ordered both of these yesterday.
That's about it for now.
[ 10-12-2012, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: PatriotM ]
Posted by RZR (Member # 20953) on :
PatriotM.....
Great news!
You make me want to throw my abx away and start Cowden.....if only I could afford it.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)