I was wondering what other people's experience is with this.
Did you treat for this before the infections?
Did more infections show up after treatment because it was hiding other infections?
Did you find treatment helpful and how did you treat?
Thanks
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
MANY MANY Lyme patients have this; they just don't know it.
I treated for it during Lyme treatment. I took heparin shots, then heparin troches. The heparin helped with brain fog, energy and pain.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Yeah, nearly everyone who has lyme, or has had lyme for any amount of time. Goes hand in hand.
A good LLMD will treat alongside lyme, together.
I never got "proper" treatment with a LLMD (and still battle) but, for me, allicin helps tremendously in many ways. One of which is that it can address this "sticky blood" tendency.
There are other herbs that can help, too.
Good LLMD and good LL NDs (naturopathic doctors) know all about how to help the "sticky blood" (as I call it).
Allicin is just the first one that comes to mind.
Prickly Ash Bark is another. This chapter is NOT about lyme, but just a basic look:
When I realized that my headaches and pain were symptoms of hypercoagulation, I wanted to find something to reduce it.
After reading about systemic enzymes, I decided to try them. First I took Serrapeptase, but did not notice a reduction in my symptoms. Hah, later I realized that I should have increased the dose.
When I got around to Wobenzym, I had done more reading, and decided to ramp up to a larger dose. Less than two weeks later, I woke up one day without the usual splitting headache -- it worked!
I've been on Wobenzym for several years now. Although it is expensive, the alternative is to go back to all that pain.
Some natural substances have blood-thinning properties. A possible risk exists when taking such a product while also taking Coumarins (coumadin-like substances), salicylates (aspirin-like substances) and anti-platelets (substances that prevent blood cells from clumping together) as these are all considered blood thinners. Too much blood thinning can lead to excessive bleeding.
Hope this finds you well. In your book you recommend red root as one of the adjunct therapies.
Many, if not most, lymies suffer from hypercoagulation, a condition in which the spirochetes coat the blood vessels with fibrin, which effectively acts like a goo and keeps nutrients from getting to the cells, whilst thickening the blood so that it clots too easily.
Red root encourages blood clotting�and most lymies actually need blood thinners (in my humble understanding�). What do you think about this?
Stephen�s response:
I have seen a few references to this and the issue is not well delineated, at least to me. I am not convinced about hypercoagulation and lyme, primarily because I can find no scientific papers acknowledging the condition at all.
Some of the research material I have seen actually indicates the opposite. So, I would really like to see some material, not from one or two lyme physicians but researchers, on the issue.
However, although red root does increase coagulation, in the doses I suggest it should not be a problem. Additionally, many of the herbs�andrographis and cat�s claw for example, are reliable blood thinners that inhibit blood clotting. Knotweed also facilitates blood flow through other mechanisms.
These herbs are more than enough to counteract any clotting actions of red root and should easily�if hypercoagulation does indeed occur�reverse that condition in the doses listed.
Bromelain (500-1000 mg daily). Several journal articles suggest that bromelain, a natural substance found in pineapples, enhances fibrinolysis. It may thus be useful in patients having high Lp(a) or high PAI-1 values as these block fibrinolysis. Bromelain is available over the counter in various digestive aids and supplements. It may be as useful in such patients as such clot-busting drugs as tPA.
Posted by Carol in PA (Member # 5338) on :
quote:Originally posted by jwall: What brand wobenzym? Is it better than nattokinase and lumbrokinase?
Wobenzym is a blend of enzymes, and there are several other blends too. I decided to try Wobenzym after reading several research studies about it.
Physicians in Europe prescribe it for their patients, but it seems that the U.S. doctors don't know much about systemic enzymes. You can find info by googling for Wobenzym and inflammation, or pain, or arthritis, etc.
I have no idea how it compares with nattokinase or lumbrokinase. I started off by taking Serrapeptase, which has been shown to thin mucous and clear up sinus infections.
You'll notice that chronic sinus problems are a frequent complaint among Lyme patients. It turns out that Lyme patients have excess fibrin in their bloodstream, and this contributes to thick mucous and sinus infections.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Boluoke (lumbrokinase) is excellent. It does have research behind it.
Wobenzym is probably very good too.
Posted by nefferdun (Member # 20157) on :
One LLMD reported 90% of his patients had hypercoagulation. It makes it harder for medication to penetrate deeply into the tissue and to get toxins out. It means the cells receive less oxygen (borellia loves that) and contributes to brain fog. Biofilm causes hypercoagulation.
Boluoke is supposed to be the best natural form of blood thinner but it is expensive. Lumbrokinase is the same thing, just cheaper and not researched as well. They are both earth worm protein. I read if you take 2 capsules 3 times a day (on an empty stomach), it will thin your blood 10% in a month. Lactoferrin is helpful to prevent biofilm but it won't get rid of it.
Heparin is a drug you inject in your abdomen. It hurts and bruises. In fact, I still have bruises from injections I gave myself over 6 months ago and I don't know if they will ever go away. Heparin can also take calcium out of your bones. Pregnant women have gotten osteoporosis while taking it.
There are herbs that help increase circulation like Hawthorn, Jiaogulan and cayenne. I am taking Jiaogulan which has other benefits as well. I don't think these herbs actually thin the blood. Jiaogulan promotes nitric oxide which dilates the blood vessels.
Protomyxzoa is the worst biofilm producer and eating a low fat vegan diet is the best way to keep it under control. It multiplies 100 times faster with lipids and arginine.
Posted by poppy (Member # 5355) on :
Was looking for info on enzymes, trying to figure out which one to use after seeing the high prices on some. A search brought up this thread. Still not sure what to get.
However, wanted to add to this thread because no one has mentioned the reason why lyme causes hypercoagulation. And that is because it is one of the body's defenses against infection. Slows down the spread of microbes. Of course, with chronic infection, then you get this full time which is not good.
Posted by nefferdun (Member # 20157) on :
A lot of us have hyper coagulation because of methyl cycle mutations, making us the perfect storm for infections. The MTHFR/SHMT mutations cause platelet aggregation which can lead to cardiovascular disease; blood clots, stroke, heart attacks etc. MTHFR causes folate deficiency so it is probably a good idea to also take methyl folate or folinic acid (not folic acid).
Folate is supposed to contribute to the biofilm made by protomyxzoa but I take it anyway because I feel I need it for the mutations.
Protomyxzoa builds biofilm and most of us are testing positive for it. These pathogens are like the axis of evil. They work together to create the ideal hostile environment. The biofilm makes the blood sluggish, slows down circulation, makes it harder for medication to penetrate deeply into tissue, harder to detox waste out, lowers the body temperature and there is less oxygen (borellia loves this).
I don't believe you can get well until you address the underlying cause of hyper coagulation. You need to open the methyl cycle pathways and thin the blood. Boluoke is the best natural thinner but very expensive. Lumbrokinase is second. Jiaogulan and Hawthorn also help. Spice your food up with cayenne. As PR multiplies 100 faster with lipids and arginine, eat a low fat whole foods vegan diet.
The latest thing is liposomal phosphatidylcholine with EDTA. EDTA is used in blood banks to keep the blood from clotting. It breaks down biofilm by binding with magnesium and iron. It also chelates heavy metals.
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
I have also found salt baths (1 pound baking soda, 1 pound epsom salt, 2 pounds sea salt), very hot water for 15-25 minutes, then keep warm with blankets/hat for 15 minutes, really exposes the biofilm more for these things to do their job.
Posted by jlcd1 (Member # 18138) on :
I take lambrokinase. I've found the best prices at vitacost, and after the first day of taking it the headache in the back of my neck improved majorly.
Posted by trimom (Member # 25843) on :
How are you diagnosed with hypercoagulation? Is it one blood test or a bunch?
Posted by Healing in Santa Cruz (Member # 7798) on :
This is one of the first things my doc tested me for with Hemex labs. When I showed up positive for lyme and co. So glad he did.
I am so amazed at the docs, even LLMD's that don't have a clue about it Posted by Healing in Santa Cruz (Member # 7798) on :
![[Frown]](frown.gif)