Hi all. I went off of antibiotics months ago. Parly by choice and partly due to serious reaction.
I felt there was more to my being sick so started attempts to control allergies. IgE 1,937 with normal being 0-100.
I also made an appt with a BHRT doc. He put me on Armour Thyroid 1 tab daily and to increase by 1 every 1-2 weeks.
WOW! Increase in symptoms which he warned me of and said that would be an indication of adrenal exhaustion. I did have a saliva stress test in the past which was OK on am and pm but the two in the middle were low.
He's wanting my adrenals to start on their own as opposed to adding Cortisol from the get go.
How long before feeling better? I can only increase every 2 weeks due to symptoms which will take me 16 weeks to reach the dose he wants me at. I did register on the STTM site but have difficulty navigating with the heavy brain fog.
Thanks for any help/advice.
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
One of my first treatments when I first collapsed back in 1983 was for adrenal exhaustion at a Holistic Clinic in Quakertown, Pa. I could barely walk a few steps without extreme fatigue and couldn't talk most of the time for the same reason.
After a mos of some very kind and lovely holistic care for adrenal support and $5,000 later, I wasn't any better. At one point I saw a LL endrocrinologist and was given armour thyroid to no avail.
Treating the infections with antiparasitic herbs and salt/c were the only things that helped me on the road to recovery. Sea Salt and Vitamin C are very necessary for adrenal support.
It's possible you are salt deficient which can happen when we are chronically ill and dehydrated. Nothing worked for me until I started to eradicate the underlying infections.
Not saying the armour thyroid won't help some, but you really need to look into other avenues such as getting rid of the underlying infections which can include parasites.
Since you can't take abx, you might want to look into Buhner herbs and antiparasitic herbs. There is also a very good Dr. K. practioner not far from you outside of Philly. Pm Tammy N for more info on the name.
Gael
Posted by fourwinds (Member # 14114) on :
First of all I hope they tested all of your thyroid levels (FT3, FT4, Antibodies and TSH).
Secondly, I don't know why doc' do this, but you need to address the adrenal FIRST because if you
give thyroid meds without supporting the adrenals you WILL CRASH.
I've been through this for over 10 years... I had my thyroid ablated (RAI) in 1998.
The infections ran rampart and caused all sorts of problems for me with my adrenals. BUT, I had
to take thyroid because I didn't have one.
I am much better now but did have to start Cortef
and am still on it because the naturals wouldn't help me.
glm111 I know the clinic you speak of... kinda hocus pocus ;0
There's quite a bit you can do to support the
adrenals naturally. One product that worked well
for me (before I got REALLY sick) was ADAPT by InterPlexus.
Some have found Isocort to help.
Some people do well on glandular forms while
others better on phytonutrients. I am with the latter.
There is one other point here, in that, Armour changed their formulation and some people have
had problems tolerating it because of the fillers (I am one). I get my thyroid from Canada (by script) and it works really well for me.
The other natural choice can be Naturthroid.
Another good source of information is http://www.drlam.com Posted by Catgirl (Member # 31149) on :
There is a great book called "Adrenal Fatigue" to help you with this. And IMO, Gael is 100% right about salt/C. Salt and vitamin C are recommended in the book too. It just makes perfect sense to do the protocol (plus it works for parasites, which I believe, thanks to Gael and others, that we all have them).
I wish I had done the salt/C protocol when I came down with severe adrenal fatigue (not diagnosed with lyme yet, so I had no idea back then). I upped my vit C and salt (it helped). So did going vegan (shortly after that). Acupuncture helped too (still doing this).
Posted by Pocono Lyme (Member # 5939) on :
Gael, I have done Rx antiparasitics and humaworm. I'm not sure if I can do the Salt/C protocol with high blood pressure? If it's OK, I'll try it.
I don't believe there is much in the area of antibiotics/antimalarials ... I haven't done.
fourwinds, Yes he did check all of that and more. TSH was midrange at 1.78 FT4 low range at 1.02 FT3 suboptimal at 2.9
And yes I did crash after starting the Armour 2 weeks ago Wednesday, started to wake up, had to increase this past Wednesday and crashing again.
I am sooo tired and weak. I think I read where Armour is back to the original? May be wrong.
I think I have some Cortef here but wouldn't be enough to last very long. I read where my doc uses it as last resort.
Maybe cortisone cream? How often and how much I don't know. Too tired to read up now. Thanks for the link. I will check it out when more awake.
Catgirl, Thanks for your info. Never tried accupuncture but have considered it and will again.
I don't want to go through the next four months like this. All of your info is greatly appreciated. Thank You.
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
Blood results and energy testing results also would have said I could benefit from thyroid rx, but once I started taking hydrocortisone (aka cortef, to replace cortisol body should be making), I am getting energy and don't energy test that I need thyroid anymore (just started this a couple weeks ago, perhaps blood tests in a few months will confirm). I am on a dose right now of 15mg/day, in the range they call "physiological", meaning, not more than the body would make just replacing what it can't, to hopefully get it rested and rehabilitated so it might one day do that again.
This is somewhat expected, adrenals and thyroid make various chemicals that interact through the chain of reactions, which is why treating adrenals can fix some thyroid insufficiences, and is another reason to start with adrenals--not thyroid.
I thought this was fairly standard knowledge, so surprising a doc specializing in hormones would start with thyroid--?hoping? adrenals would just decide to work all of a sudden, as if they are not completely fatigued and doing what they can?
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
Several mos of antiparasitics is not nearly sufficient if that's all you did.
I read that Dr. K. treats with pharma meds for at least a yrs. It can take several years to get rid of parasites, eggs and larva.
I took a lot of antiparasitic herbs for 6 mos and then salt/c before I had a mass exodus daily for mos and mos.
Might be worth another try on a steady basis. Check with lymestrategies for info regarding salt/c and b/p.
Gael
Posted by Pocono Lyme (Member # 5939) on :
Michael,
Thank you. That certainly makes sense. I think I'm going to try cortisone cream. I saw a measurement for it to be equivalent to the pill.
Not sure if I should stop the Armour though. No reply from doc and now frustrated. This seems no different than lyme and company. Pretty much do your own research and direct your own treatment.
Gael, Thank you. I looked into the Salt/C and BP and it seems to be a 50/50 review. I know where I always end up with even better than those odds. Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
Some may well need thyroid support as well as adrenal support. Some docs like to try just the adrenal and see if you need the thyroid. There are probably others that would start with both if the blood test for thyroid was bad enough. If thyroid is just modestly bad, then starting with just adrenal support may make more sense.
Certainly is better with a good doc to guide. Energy testing can also be invaluable here, if you can do it yourself, or if you know a friendly doc (acupuncturist, chiro, EFT practitioner) that might be willing to do it for you.
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
Forgot to mention, there is a rule of thumb very easy to use to help with this. Measure your temperature daily for a couple weeks or so. Be sure to allow any patterns related to work schedule, drug schedule, etc., be reflected in results.
Then, temperature that bounces around more than perhaps 2-3 decimal points indicates need for adrenal support (such as hydrocortisone). Temperature that is too low, on average, indicates need for thyroid support (such as thyroid hormone). Again, view of a number of docs I trust, is start with adrenal support if needed, then reassess need for thyroid support.
My temp was way low and bounces like crazy. My hydrocortisone dose is stabilized and now so is the temp, but it still is a touch low, indicating perhaps small amt of thyroid support needed. That's also why my pendulum says, and I'll give it another week and talk to doc about adding small amt of thyroid.
Some like to measure 3 times a day (but not when just awaken as that is supposed to be lower) the oral temperatur and compute an average temp for the day, and use that as above, compare it to 98.6. My doc likes to use the second you wake up temperature, before even getting out of bed, measured in the armpit, and then use this, but with 97.4-97.6 being the normal range for that type of measurement.
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
Forgot to mention, there is a rule of thumb very easy to use to help with this. Measure your temperature daily for a couple weeks or so. Be sure to allow any patterns related to work schedule, drug schedule, etc., be reflected in results.
Then, temperature that bounces around more than perhaps 2-3 decimal points indicates need for adrenal support (such as hydrocortisone). Temperature that is too low, on average, indicates need for thyroid support (such as thyroid hormone). Again, view of a number of docs I trust, is start with adrenal support if needed, then reassess need for thyroid support.
My temp was way low and bounces like crazy. My hydrocortisone dose is stabilized and now so is the temp, but it still is a touch low, indicating perhaps small amt of thyroid support needed. That's also why my pendulum says, and I'll give it another week and talk to doc about adding small amt of thyroid.
Some like to measure 3 times a day (but not when just awaken as that is supposed to be lower) the oral temperatur and compute an average temp for the day, and use that as above, compare it to 98.6. My doc likes to use the second you wake up temperature, before even getting out of bed, measured in the armpit, and then use this, but with 97.4-97.6 being the normal range for that type of measurement.
Posted by Pocono Lyme (Member # 5939) on :
Thanks Michael. I did read somewhere about taking the temps. Of course I didn't think to save it. Not thinking very well on much of anything. That makes your help and others' help so valuable to me.
I have to get a glass thermometer, most likely today, as the digitals don't last long and I don't think they're very accurate.
Thinking back to my first LLMD appt. Dr. H. in NY, my temperature wouldn't even register on the thermometer for months.
The thought was that I may have been septic.? My blood pressure was also low. 70-80/50. In the past year it's been high. On med now to control it. My temp has since been in "normal" range but I haven't done temps 3 times/day. Hopefully I can start tomorrow.
I hope you get everything normalized and get your health back.
Posted by peonyprincess (Member # 38611) on :
I also tried armour first and crashed. Had to add in hydrocortisone -small dose to tolerate the thyroid meds. I see a hormone specialist in NE PA who had a lot more knowledge than the endocrinologist I saw previously. Have much more energy now.
Posted by Pocono Lyme (Member # 5939) on :
peonyprincess, The crash is bad. Would you kindly PM the doc's info? I'm not too sure the one I saw is the one for me. He reportedly only uses HC as last resort.
Dr. L. Thanks.
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
My doc looks at low b.p. as another symptom of the low adrenal function. Another clue that is what you need to look at, hopefully you can find a doc to support you in that way.
Posted by Pocono Lyme (Member # 5939) on :
Thank you all! Doc did email me back. My response to the armour is confirmation of low adrenal function.
Stopping armour t for now, will be starting hc. Apparently the reports I read about this doc waiting to use hc as last resort were old.
Thankfully those before me must have brought the doc up to par. Thanks to peonyprincess I realized this.
Michael, the strange thing is that my bp was always low until about 1 1/2 years ago when it spiked to 160/130 and stayed until bp med added.
Thyroid? A few months after hospitalization for DVT secondary to PICC? Don't know. I was soooo weak and tired yesterday plus seemed like I had to tell myself to breathe and didn't feel as if I was getting enough oxygen. Again. Thank you all! Hoping and praying for some improvement soon.
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