This is surely a work in progress, so feel free to add links. Marnie has posted a bunch of great links and most are not here (I just don't have energy to gather them all right now). But it's a start.
I had to get this into a set so I could just post a link in others' thread and not take up the whole screen.
if that link does not work - I just checked and it won't (Oct. 2015), try both of these (scroll down for the first, the second one seems not to the same article but similar):
BERBERINE: Therapeutic Potential of an Alkaloid Found in Several Medicinal Plants
Timothy C. Birdsall, N.D. and Gregory S. Kelly, N.D. � 1997
10 page pdf
--------------------------------------
Note: Some products that are refined may be either Berberine HCI - or Berberine SULFATE.
Marnie speaks to the difference somewhere in her posts.
Rx INTERACTION / contraindication is also discussed somewhere by Marnie. Still your LLMD is the best source of guidance for you.
She is very clear about this: Do NOT add this to your "protocol" without first discussing it with your doctor! -------------------------------
Editing to add on Nov. 9:
FULL CHAPTER on THE BERBERINES in BUHNER's NEW BOOK. Just added link - scroll down for that.
It's vital to read this as one is gathering their personal research - before making any decisions so that full weight can be given to which things do just what for you. -
[ 10-17-2015, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- As with any supplement, after discussing with your LL doctor - and asking which type and brand they suggest - start with lowest dose, just once a day until you see how it goes. Increase only gradually.
[ 07-12-2019, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by nonna05 (Member # 33557) on :
Lots of info...does it mean would help with flares and bring healthy fat??
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Well, your LLMD is best to determine if it's right for you. Much depends on what else one takes.
Not sure what is meant by "flare" -- if that means a herxheimer reaction or reactivation of infection.
Either way, the articles above explain it's multi-functional benefits.
I don't know what you mean by does it "bring healthy fat"? It's not an essential fatty acid at all. That's a whole other category. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Cytokines are often raised during a herx, creating pain and other troubles.
All the articles cited above (and abstracts at PubMed) concur with this very nice page at Wikipedia:
Morevover, berberine reduces hepatic fat content in the rats of nonalcoholic fatty liver disease.[55] . . .
------- of course, and not really necessary to post for those at LymeNet (but to anyone new to all this or a visitor to the site) . . .
it's all about support -- no supplement is to be exchanged for a wise nutrition plan or the kind of activity our LL doctors guide us to considering the safety considerations with chronic infections.
[ 06-20-2014, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by girl (Member # 18022) on :
Well it looks like I need to hang around more often. THANKS FOR THE INFO.
Posted by Kristen J. (Member # 24566) on :
Great stuff!!!!
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- When considering herbal / nutritional / adjunct methods:
if at all possible - because each person & each case is different - it's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL (lyme literate) doctor who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -
- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present.
Many LL NDs incorporate antibiotics (depending upon the licensing laws in their state). Some LLMDs and LL NDs have good working relationships.
When possible, it's great to have both a LLMD and LL ND and even better when they have a long-standing professional relationship.
Integrative / Holistic M.D., etc. (Be aware that those in this category can have various levels of formal herbal &/or nutritional education, perhaps even just a short course. Do ask first.)
Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:
Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures from all corners of medicine;
knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.
You can compare and contrast many approaches.
BASIC HERBAL EDUCATIONAL & SAFETY links,
BODY WORK links with safety tailored to lyme patients . . . .
and much more. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Re: SYSTEMIC action, regarding ALL its properties?
FULL CHAPTER on THE BERBERINES in BUHNER's NEW BOOK.
Consideration regarding: Systemic or just localized (specific) actions?
This is a major concern for all with lyme or other chronic stealth infection.
Buhner has some very important considerations about the scope of Berberine in his new book, regarding his view that it's just not a strong "systemic" choice but has more localized action - especially for the GI tract.
And, he does note the favorable qualities of glucose stabilization, even if it may not be all we might want for everything.
This author / researcher is very well respected and his work consistently stellar. This new book is no exception.
I encourage everyone to get this book and read it as they make their decisions, along with their doctors.
Herbal Antibiotics, 2nd Edition: Natural Alternatives for Treating Drug-resistant Bacteria
2nd Edition (but has been totally revised & expanded from the first)
Paperback - 480 pages - You can look inside the book at the link - $17.
Kindle version also available.
- by Stephen Harrod Buhner
Be aware: This book is NOT at all about lyme.
Lyme has a few key mentions, in passing, but for those wanting to read more about his research with lyme and herbs, see his previous book: HEALING LYME - and see his website, too, where he has ongoing discussion.
[ 07-12-2019, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by poppy (Member # 5355) on :
I find the whole issue of how we want our immune system to work, and be manipulated by what we take, to be totally confusing.
When we are first bitten, the spirochete downregulates our immune system, the proinflammatory cytokines, to survive in our body. If this were not the case, then we would be one of those people who are bitten but do not get sick.
Then, it is said that inflammation (from pro-inflammatory cytokines) is part of the problem in late stage disease, that it can cause damage too. So why is this inflammation not taking out the spirochetes. Or is the answer chronic exposure to ever changing spirochete antigen composition? So, we have no traction with the immune response that is generated. We just have inflammation along with the spirochetes.
Do we want berberine to downregulate our immune system or not?
I realize no one on this forum has the answer, but it is an important question.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- A LL ND should be able to answer this for you.
With lyme, part of the immune system that is on overdrive may need to be calmed down a bit while other "parts" need more supportive encouragment.
Similarly, the classic lyme adrenal "overdrive" also need to be balanced. Considering so many functions, organs, systems that are affected by lyme "complex" - BALANCE is truly a tough goal to achieve, and the way that is approached can differ for each individual.
A LL ND is best to address that. This is the world they have studied for years.
For my body, Berberine has helped relieve pain that was nearly . It has helped my body be less puffy and inflamed. I am without it periodically and know from the repeated "running out" cycles that it makes a profound difference. It helps my body manage far better. -
[ 06-20-2014, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by LymeNut (Member # 40314) on :
Does berberine help kill yeast? And if so, which type of berberine do I get to specifically target yeast? Berberine HCL or berberine sulfate or another type?
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Yes, this can be part of a good anti-candida approach. Either type should do it but I really like the one from Tahoma Clinic Dispensary (link above). I don't have any problem with candida so can't offer personal experience with this in that regard but it sure "reads well."
A cross-search of key terms should take you far, too.
The articles above offer fuller detail. A LL ND could guide you more specifically. -
[ 07-20-2013, 07:47 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Start here and then go back up to other articles:
Link changed. Search full article name for where it landed. This changes often. Great article worth the search
BERBERINE: Therapeutic Potential of an Alkaloid Found in Several Medicinal Plants
Timothy C. Birdsall, N.D. and Gregory S. Kelly, N.D. � 1997
10 page pdf -
[ 07-12-2019, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
Keebler, did you notice a difference with the different types of berberine... Ie...barberry vs. Oregon grape etc?
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Oregon Grape Root in past has helped on occasion. As has Barberry, I recall specifically that pulling me out of a horrible cold years ago. Same with Coptis and also with Goldenseal - all helped.
The brand of Berberine I take is from Barberry root - but it also has the extract strength to it, unlike just taking certain raw / crude herbs that contain it. It may contain materials from other berberine containing plants but I know that it has a mix and that barberry is at least the constant.
And some brands can't (or won't) say where they get it. I want to know, specifically, which plants and I want some raw / crude herb as well as some extract, combined. There may be others that are good, it's just that this one works for me from a place that I trust well.
Keebler, all my reading on Swanson berberine says root also. from berberis aristata root?
Time will tell if I see results.
Pam
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Pam,
That's good they tell you where it's from. Berberine can be found in many plants. Further study of each can be done if one is so inclined. It may actually be good to rotate brands now and then - that used different sources for the berberine - but I can't verbalize why (I know why, just can't explain it.)
From all accounts I've seen here by others, Swanson's is a company that many do okay with.
I've not looked at their sources nor other ingredients so just be sure to always consider not just the plant they use but where they get it, who tends it, the entire process from ground it's grown in until the bottle is shipped and, even then, the path to you.
That's why it's easier for me to go by naturopathic / clinic advice. They've done all that research for me.
I also want to know that the farmers are treated & compensated fairly. If that means I can buy less (on my budget), so be it. By knowing what I buy is "fair trade" standard, the quality usually goes along with that. -
[ 06-20-2014, 04:55 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Carol in PA recently brought this to my attention.
[6-20-14: corrected posts above to reflect that]
GoodState now has a clear vegetable capsule - (no more dyed capsule at least for THIS item, a very good move)
- and a very good price (may be a limited offer on this price, though, their clear capsules seem here to stay: at Amazon (though they have their own website, too, for additional detail)
GoodState Berberine HCL 400 Mg, 120 Professional grade Capsules -
[ 06-20-2014, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
Keebler, I've had such success with Swanson Berberine. I was thinking next I'd try the brand you recommend GlycoX?
But then I started to doubt changing from Swanson. If I'm seeing results with this brand and this dosage, why risk changing to another brand and maybe it's not the one for me.
Your thoughts Keebler would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Pam
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
I posted that berberine inhibits 2 enzymes which we NORMALLY think are "just" LIVER enzymes. Apparently they are not JUST in the liver - one for sure is present in other "tissue"...brain.
watch closely for the "liver" enzymes it inhibits!
And, get this...one of those enzymes (activated) looks to impact vitamin D - negatively.
"The interplay between vitamin D and CYP3A4 provides new insights into our understanding of how enzyme * induction* can contribute to vitamin D deficiency."
CYP3A4...yes, grapefruit juice (“inhibition through fruit ingestion”). BTW…oral Ketoconazole (listed as a strong inhibitor) = anti-fungal (Nizoral - pill) comes with serious adverse reactions…not so if used topically as in a cream.
The other enzyme:
CYP2D6…curious that Fluoxetine (also known by the tradenames ***Prozac***, Sarafem, Ladose and Fontex) is listed as a strong inhibitor.
My sis has been on the highest level of Prozac allowed and never developed “neuro” lyme.
She did, however test very low for vitamin D.
BTW...in case you don't already know this...we MAKE less D3 from the sun as we age. Testing (blood) should be part of our "annual" exam, IMO.
Surprisingly, the lab "normal" range for D3 is quite large, but I've read some persons genetically need more D3 than others.
When you read the "Wikipedia" links about those enzymes...heads up when it comes to gender differences.
Another reason why more women than men are "autoimmune"?
Do NOT take Berberine without discussing it with your doctor! Because of the enzymes it inhibits, it can interact with other meds and supplements - as well as "foods".
We still don't know which form of berberine is best...sulfate or chloride and we still have to figure out optimal dosages and timing too.
But it DOES look to help...significantly. And from all my reading about that herb, it looks to work on MANY levels.
Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
My cholesterol numbers were so much better today. Dropped from 282 down to 211. Bad LDL 190 down to 147. Triglycerides 223 down to 140.
I think my berberine is doing really good things for me.
Pam
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Pam,
interjecting this - many months / years after you asked above. If something is working for you, great. Trust your experience. It may well be a very good brand.
Berberine Protects against Neuronal Damage via Suppression of Glia-Mediated Inflammation in Traumatic Brain Injury
December 29, 2014
Authors listed at link above. PLOS ONE - DOI: 10.1371/journal.pone.0115694
1/3 of the way down, section title in bold:
. . . Berberine attenuated brain edema, BBB permeability, MMP-9 enzymatic activity and neutrophil infiltration after TBI . . .
Excerpt at end of full article:
. . . In conclusion, our results show that post-injury administration of berberine protects against brain damage in a clinically relevant model of TBI.
This neuroprotective effect is at least in part mediated by inhibition of the TLR4/MyD88/NF-κB signaling pathway in glial cells. Our findings emphasize the role of glial cells in the pathogenesis of TBI;
by suppressing their proinflammatory response with anti-inflammatory agents, we may inhibit the neurotoxicity associated with this disease.
Considering the extended therapeutic window of berberine and its long-lasting effects, together with the fact that it has been extensively used preclinically and clinically, our results suggest that berberine could be a potential therapeutic agent for TBI.
[Poster's note: In this case, TBI stands for Tramautic Brain Injury -- and that's why we use TBD for tick borne disease, rather than TBI for TB infection - as TBI had already been "taken"] -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
Berberine is a yellow-colored alkaloid compound found in several different plants, including European barberry, goldenseal, goldthread, Oregon grape, phellodendron, and tree turmeric. . . .
While the topical antimicrobial effects of berberine are well established, it used to be thought that berberine had poor absorption when consumed orally.
Researchers typically only found low blood levels of berberine after supplementation, and because of this some doubted its effects as a systemic agent.
However, it turns out berberine is quite well absorbed; it's just metabolized so quickly that blood tests fail to measure it before it's used by your body. As explained in the Natural Medicine Journal:21 . . . .
. . . . Many studies use dosages of 900 to 1,500 mg per day, which might be broken down into 500 mg three times a day before meals . . . . -
[ 07-12-2019, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
For the Love of Berberine: What It Is and Why I Take It to Lower Blood Sugar, Bad Cholesterol, and Weight
By Sara Gottfried MD -- a blog piece.
Excerpts:
. . . Berberine is insulin-sensitizing, anti-inflammatory, and anti-oxidant activity . . . .
. . . berberine is NORMOGLYCEMIC which means it reduces blood sugar only if elevated. . . .
. . . What does berberine do?
Berberine is a mixed nutraceutical, meaning that it has several effects that we can divide into the broad categories of lowering blood sugar, lipids, and body weight.
Here are some of the proven applications of berberine: . . . . -
[ 07-12-2019, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- The best article I've ever found . . . in first post of thread, the URL has changed. The edit feature is not working so here it is.
I might also suggest - always - copy and paste full article to a work page to save in your study / research files. Some articles, and this one especially seem to change their URLs often.
If you save the article to your file, all of it, if it disappears, you will have it for reference always. Better yet: print it so you have a hard copy as well.
. . . [helps support] glycolysis (the breakdown of glucose by enzymes, releasing energy and pyruvic acid). . . .
. . . A review of the 14 most relevant studies that found berberine works as well as the most commonly prescribed diabetes drugs metformin, rosiglitazonem and glipizide (10, 11,15).
Berberine seems to work via multiple different mechanisms (12): . . .
[FOR ANYONE TAKING CERTAIN ANTIBIOTICS:]
. . . Berberine may interact with microlide antibiotics such as azithromycin and clarithromycin at hERG channels on the heart, leading to serious cardiotoxicity. . . . -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- It's usually very rewarding to check up on my favorite herbs every few months at PubMed.
Today, it's Berberine I'm re-exploring and lots of good abstracts of promising outcomes in research around the world. One such example:
Phytother Res. 2018 Oct 11. doi: 10.1002/ptr.6196. [Epub ahead of print]
Anti-influenza activity of berberine improves prognosis by reducing viral replication in mice.
[Ten authors from 4 medical university research institutions in China]
Abstract
Berberine, a natural isoquinoline alkaloid isolated from the berberis species, has a wide array of biological properties such as anti-inflammatory, antibacterial, antifungal, and antihelminthic effects.
We evaluated the antiviral effect of berberine against influenza A/FM1/1/47 (H1N1) in vivo and in vitro.
The results showed that berberine strongly suppressed viral replication in A549 cells and in mouse lungs.
Meanwhile, berberine relieved pulmonary inflammation and reduced necrosis, inflammatory cell infiltration, and pulmonary edema induced by viral infection in mice when compared with vehicle-treated mice.
Berberine suppressed the viral infection-induced up-regulation of TLR7 signaling pathway, such as TLR7, MyD88, and NF-κB (p65), at both the mRNA and protein levels.
Furthermore, berberine significantly inhibited the viral infection-induced increase in Th1/Th2 and Th17/Treg ratios as well as the production of inflammatory cytokines.
Our data provide new insight into the potential of berberine as a therapeutic agent for viral infection via its antiviral activity. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
Deadly immune 'storm' caused by emergent flu infections
The Scripps Research Institute - February 27, 2014
Summary:
Scientists have mapped key elements of a severe immune overreaction -— a “cytokine storm” -— that can both sicken and kill patients who are infected with certain strains of flu virus.
A cytokine storm is an overproduction of immune cells and their activating compounds (cytokines), which, in a flu infection, is often associated with a surge of activated immune cells into the lungs.
The resulting lung inflammation and fluid buildup can lead to respiratory distress and can be contaminated by a secondary bacterial pneumonia -- often enhancing the mortality in patients.
[poster's note: that last line "enhancing the mortality" - well, that means increasing the risk for death and often involves Septic Shock that can happen very fast with a virulent virus.] Also see:
[ 12-04-2018, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Complementing the two above posts from today: going back to the basics. The first source listed (by Birdsall) is my all time favorite reference source. That link is posted several / many posts above.
In vitro it exerts significant anti-inflammatory and antioxidant activities.
In animal models berberine has neuroprotective and cardiovascular protective effects. In humans, its lipid-lowering and insulin-resistance improving actions have clearly been demonstrated in numerous randomized clinical trials.
Moreover, preliminary clinical evidence suggest the ability of berberine to reduce endothelial inflammation improving vascular health, even in patients already affected by cardiovascular diseases.
Altogether the available evidences suggest a possible application of berberine use in the management of chronic cardiometabolic disorders. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
Berberine has been shown to ameliorates β-amyloid pathology
and cognitive impairment in an AD transgenic mouse model [19]. After berberine treatment, the levels of extracellular and intracellular Aβ1–42 were decreased, mediated by increased autophagy activity.
We found that TUDCA prevents mitochondrial apoptotic events typical of early-stage mouse NSC differentiation, ***preserves mitochondrial integrity and function,*** while enhancing self-renewal potential and accelerating cell cycle exit of NSCs.
And thanks for bringing the attention of berberine to me in the first place. It's been very enjoyable research but, most of all, it really helps me in various ways.
I had heard of it and knew of it but it was not until you posted a bunch of research links that I really stood up and took notice. You made it come alive, so to speak. -
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
I am VERY hsppy berberine has helped you!
Please look at the YouTube video I linked. If Berberine increases TUDCA, then that taurine + bile acid is extremely helpful for many diseases.