Not by choice- I have a refill on my prescription but I was 2 days late calling the pharmacy according to the expiration date on my pill bottle so they require the actual doctor (who may or may not be in the office tomorrow with the holiday) to authorize the last refill again.
So that puts me at 4-5 days out from when I last had it to when I'm able to take it again. Brain shocks are starting, agitation, crying, dream like out of body feeling...etc.
I am definitely getting the refill but I am also entertaining ideas of getting off this crap in the future.
I've been on this medicine for 17 years. I was started on it as a teenager.
It has helped in many ways and hurt me in many others. It stabilized me but I don't like the idea that I don't have a choice on whether I take it. The consequences for not taking it are grave.
When I tried to withdraw before I was hospitalized. I weaned slowly for months and then after I stopped taking it, I was awake for 8 days straight and ended up in a mental hospital.
In the hospital it took one pill. One pill and I fell asleep. All the horrid symptoms disappeared. They released me after 48 hours. All they did was give me the pill I'd stopped taking and told me the pill made me better because my "depression had come back and I needed to be on medicine."
When obviously the symptoms were caused entirely by withdrawal.
So, if I were to plan down the line to get off this stuff has anyone had special issues given lyme + withdrawal? I feel like I understand the implications of SSRI withdrawal alone, but not when coupled with lyme/co-infections?
(And I plan to include my current doctor and ND in this discussion- I'm going to talk to both at my next visits.)
Ok- long winded post. I hope it makes sense and would appreciate any info! Thanks!
[ 02-17-2013, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: daynise ]
Posted by tickle (Member # 36441) on :
So when you were given the pill, the symptoms went away.
Much like giving a heroin addict some heroin to stop the withdrawal symptoms, then saying that was the problem all along!
Medical people are so brainwashed by pharmaceuticals, it's appalling.
I, too, am on antidepressants and am quite desperate to get off them. I'm afraid of the withdrawal, though, because to have that on top of the TBI anxiety stuff, I'm likely to allienate all who come into contact with me during the transition!
Posted by daynise (Member # 39609) on :
Exactly. And I know that anti-depressants can help people and they have helped me, but I was not informed at 15 of the consequences of taking them long term- in fact I have been told repeatedly that SSRI withdrawal does not exist.
So, I feel a mix of infuriation and confusion.
Maybe I am the person that needs SSRI's forever and would be too unstable without them and for their existence I should be grateful, but it's not fair to not have a choice because of the withdrawal. And I was a child when I started on these which further makes me angry.
I remember resisting the psychiatrist 17 years ago and being told "if you had a broken leg, you'd wear a cast right?"
So I agreed to take them, holding onto the logical assumption that some day the cast would come off...
Posted by annxyzz (Member # 20404) on :
If you were diabetic you would take insulin . If you became ill when you stopped it , would you conclude that the insulin was "HEROIN "? Or addictive ? NO.
You might check out the book at Amazon called "THe Mood Cure " . It looks interesting and deals w/ brain chemistry and supplementing with the precursors , amino acids. Some people have great success, very slowly weaning off meds and increasing the essential amino acids .
I have take ADs since 1991 . When I go off , I have terrible anxiety and no desire to eat and a black cloud over my head . I am rational, but extremely sad and barely function. Am I addicted ? HELL NO! I am simply correcting a chemical imbalance dealt to me therough three generations . If I were addicted, I would crave more and more of the drug and probably get a high from it . I take a low dose and have a normal life. I could go off the meds and feel literally ill ( I tried that ) and never hear the birds sing or feel pleasure or have motivation. I would be rational, but on the verge of tears inside . What would this accomplish ? Worst of all , how would it affect my loved ones ? Would it improve their lives to see mom or spouse suffering in an institution? Would the doctor bills be a blessing ? I have one daughter who has inherited this and a brother also . Do you think it would be a good example to her to end up in a hospital or in a state that alarmed her ? No, she would be fearful for me and worry over her own future, so I must set a good example by bearing my burden in the best and most healthy way . Taking a tiny pill that is not addictive is a small price to pay for a normal life !
You might be able to manage without meds and with a SLOW transition to aminos . I supplement my low dose med with extra aminos . But ask yourself what your real goal is and how those around you will be affected if you suffer or are out of control .
I used to take seizure meds. I would have never consider myself addicted to them anymore that I would insulin . They were simply correcting an imbalance .
Having a chemical imbalance does not make anyone inferior any more than a person who has arthritis or kidney disease. We will all have some problems as we pass through thisworld , and I am glad mine is one that is easily treated with generic drugs .
If a person stops meds abruptly they will most likely have rough time. But they can very slowly stop or taper off the meds with a doctor . However , if the underlying imbalance is there , then the symptoms will gradually return , as in my own experience . That has nothing to do with addiction .
Good luck, and remember that anything you do that causes you to suffer will affect your loved ones , so make a responsible choice .
Posted by lax mom (Member # 38743) on :
This is a different site than the roadback for RA. I plan on going this route when I try to wean off Effexor down the road.
I went off Effexor XR in 2007 and it was 10 days of pure he**. I had to go back on in 2010 because I was post-partum and my husband was very sick with what we now know was Lyme.
Posted by dbpei (Member # 33574) on :
Lithium orotate might be of help while trying to wean off anti-depressants. It is neuro-protective and a wonderful supplement for anyone with neuro-lyme.
This is an inexpensive supplement that can be purchased online and it is a different (and much safer/milder) form of lithium than that prescribed for bipolar disorder. You only need 5 mg 3 x day.
I weaned off citalopram by reducing my dosage extremely slowly while also taking lithium orotate. I had only been taking citalopram for a few months though, following a difficult time I was having coping with my hearing loss and onset of neuro symptoms of lyme.
I can't remember my dosage, but as an example, if taking 1 pill per day at full dosage, to start the weaning process, I took half a pill instead of a whole pill EVERY OTHER DAY for a week. Then I would stabilize at the reduced dosage for a week. Then I would take this dosage for 2 days on, and one day off for a week and gradually skip more days in between.
I think I took just 1 pill during the last week. It took me several weeks to get to this point. The slower you do this the better. I had no problems at all weaning this way. I think the lithium orotate was a huge help as well.
Good luck with this. I would talk to your LLMD about this as well.
Posted by daynise (Member # 39609) on :
Sorry annxyzz- not trying to trigger anyone. I'm trying to figure things out for myself.
I have gone through the wringer with medications and psychiatrists who have not given me proper information. This isn't a judgement- Which is why I've been careful to qualify my statements.
Some people absolutely need medication their whole lives- and I could very well be one of those people- but I was not given an opportunity to find that out for myself because I was given medication before traditional behavioral therapy.
And I was given the medication as a child- so I'd like the opportunity to get through the withdrawal and make the choice as an adult, but there is not the support from the medical profession.
And the fact that people need the medication to treat a chemical imbalance does not mean the medication itself is not addictive. It certainly is and that is why there is withdrawal from it. If it weren't physically addictive, you would not experience a different set of symptoms than the original depression or underlying disorder when you come off or switch drugs.
It's two different issues- one is whether the person needs chemical balancing due to genetics or disease and the other is the side effects of the drugs.
Just like when a person has severe pain and has to use medications to help long term, that person would need to understand that some pain medications come with physical addiction after a point and need to be carefully weaned to avoid withdrawal.
Posted by daynise (Member # 39609) on :
Dbpei: thanks for the info on Lithium Orotate- i'll check it out. I'm glad you were able to wean off citalopram successfully.
Did you find any of your lyme symptoms getting worse during that time?
Lax Mom: Thanks for the road back link- I remember seeing that before. I think I may have even ordered some vitamins from them in the past. Sorry to hear you've had bad experiences with withdrawal too.
Posted by Razzle (Member # 30398) on :
I know someone who used essential oils containing sesquiterpenes to help wean off Effexor. He maintains well with the essential oils and no longer needs the Effexor.
But he had to go very, very slowly with the wean.
Posted by LSG Scott (Member # 21624) on :
please everybody, watch the documentary "Generation RX" on netflix. Antidepressants and Benzos are bad news...all psychotropic drugs are Big Pharma's hell candy, they get rich, we get messed up in the head and no one cares.
Posted by annxyzz (Member # 20404) on :
AntidEpressants are NOT addictive. Benzos or pain meds are addictive. That is not my opinion, that is a fact .
They correct a problem with brain wiring , and do not cause a high or euphoria . They do not cause a person to crave a higher dose . My doctor taught at Emory Univ in the Med School and is well known . If you said , I need to go to rehab for prozac addiction, you might get a laugh . If you quickly go off a lot of meds, like dilantin, you can take a risk . That is not addiction . Why do I clarify ? Because there are hundreds or thousands of people reading this who have faulty wiring ( many w / MTHFR GENE) and who need an antidepresssant . It will help them be normal and will not send them to rehab or cause them to act unbalanced . To imply that taking these meds is a bad choice is as stupid as ridiculing someone who takes meds for diabetes or arthrits . Behavior therapy can be useful for behavioral issues . But people who describe what you have mentioned probably need meds to correct a shortage of dopamine , serotonin , or norepinehrine . The therapist can listen to how bad you feel , but he can NOT FIX your neurotransmitters .
It may be that you got off the meds too fast . That may well be . But your depression may have returned as you were told also . There are books on orthomolecular psychiatry that dicuss ways to treat depression without meds . You would still need a good doctor to transition to amino acids and supplements .
Go to Amazon and read "The Mood Cure " review. Or google:" Dr Priscilla Slagle The Way Up From Down " You will get more info on alternatives to meds that might work to correct brain chemistry .
I am not trying to be critical or difficult , but having a chemical imbalance is NOT a drug addiction , and to imply so could keep miserable people from getting help that would revolutionize their lives . There should be NO stigma to having faulty wiring or chemistry .
Antidepressants have given me a very normal life at a low dose. Same for my mom, brother, and daughter . You have no idea just how many great normal functional people feel thankful for their existence . A tiny pill is a small price to pay ( esp generic ) for being able to enjoy life and be fully functional .
In my own case , therapy did absolutely nothing to take the symptoms away , but did validate that I was not unbalanced . I am rather surprised that this conversation is necessary or that prozac would be considered the choice of an addict . Good luck to you in your choices as your family is certainly affected by your stability or instability .
Posted by dbpei (Member # 33574) on :
I totally agree with annyx. I am a psychiatric social worker who works with older people and there are times when medications can make such a difference. I have worked on psychiatric inpatient units and my heart goes out to anyone who has required this type of hospitalization.
In the outpatient practice I work in now, we try to see if our patients can be helped with supportive therapy and changes in their environment - but we also see amazing results with various medications for some people that have chemical imbalances that contribute to depression. The challenge is to find the right medication.
Unfortunately, there are many MD's who don't know enough about psychiatric medications and do more harm than good by prescribing. It is always important to have a good therapist who works closely with a psychiatrist or psychiatric NP to assist you in getting better and finding what works best for you.
For anyone struggling with depression with Lyme disease, I would strongly suggest trying to find a therapist through your local support group who is Lyme literate. That therapist can collaborate with you and with your PCP or LLMD to help you to feel your best (emotionally).
Posted by MannaMe (Member # 33330) on :
We worked with a Pharmacist who understood both meds and supplements. He helped my husband wean off the antidepressants.
The pharmacist was able to support the body with making the right neurotransmitters by taking supplements.
Did you know a greater part of your serotonin is made in your gut? So you need to get your digestive system in shape to produce the proper amounts of serotonin.
It helps to get to the bottom of things and fix them instead of bandaging them with meds.
Posted by daynise (Member # 39609) on :
sigh. This is day 4 of not having antidepressants. I've been up all night and my stomach is wretching and I am pouring sweat.
Obviously I am currently experiencing the effects of physical dependence... addiction... antidepressant discontinuation syndrome...choose your phrase- you are arguing semantics and the only stigmas being attached are the ones you are bringing in.
I did not sign up to feel this terribly 3 days after missing a dose of a medication. If you are content with the consequences involved, that's great. But I am not.
Posted by dbpei (Member # 33574) on :
daynise, is there any way you can get your prescription refilled today? I would let your LLMD know the way you are feeling. Hopefully, once you get some of this med back into your system, you can come up with a plan to try weaning and/or possibly trying something else to help. (SSRI or lithium orotate, enzymes, St. Johnswort, etc) Hope you feel better soon! Posted by daynise (Member # 39609) on :
I definitely am getting the refill as soon as the doctor authorizes it.
I still have a refill but the prescription expired 3 days ago- I guess I didn't call in time. We called yesterday to the pharmacy and doctor's office (they have an urgent care on Sunday) and they wouldn't give me any until the actual doctor who may or may not be in today re-authorizes teh refill.
I really hope he is in.
Posted by kgg (Member # 5867) on :
If he is not in the office today, I would call the pharmacy back and ask them if they will give you a couple to tied you over. Sometimes they will, sometimes they won't.
I am so sorry that you have gone through this.
Karen
Posted by jkmom (Member # 14004) on :
I think if you ask your pharmacy for a few pills while you wait on the refill, they will give you some. Two different pharmacies have done this for me.
Posted by daynise (Member # 39609) on :
Thank you for the suggestions to call the pharmacy again. I was able to get 3 pills so I should be ok until I can get the refill. Then next week I am talking to my ND about safe ways I can wean off.
Thanks again.
Posted by feelfit (Member # 12770) on :
Daynise,
I had similar reactions coming off Paxil cold turkey. Electrical zaps, head shaking, sleeplessness, speedy feeling. It was not fun.
Jump a few years forward and I went back on Paxil when my lyme sx were at their worst. Paxil helped great with anxiety. When my anxiety was stable, I again went off, but the psych that was overseeing my meds at the time had me switch out to Prozac and then gradually wean. Something about the long/short half life of the meds.
The second time, I had no problem at all with med withdraw symptoms. Ask your doc about this. Good luck.
Posted by JenniferMN (Member # 29920) on :
daynise...
I haven't been able to get any restorative sleep in almost 15 yrs. Back toward the beginning I tried going to psychologists & told them "I can't sleep." They put me on Zoloft, Paxil, Wellbutrin, Cymbalta (at different times). None of them ever helped me to sleep because I unknowingly had Lyme all these years.
I had no withdrawal symptoms from the Zoloft, Wellbutrin, or Cymbalta (although the Cymbalta WAS FREAKING HORRIBLE THE 2 WEEKS I TOOK IT. MAKES YOU SUICIDAL.)
BUT, I had HORRIBLE withdrawal from Paxil. I quit cold-turkey because I didn't know any better. I had awful brain-zaps for a long time. I thought I was brain damaged from it.
The medical community is practicing both malpractice & malfeasance. It's OUTRAGEOUS. Not one time in all the years I used to go to psychologists, psychiatrists, sleep centers, & doctors did ANY OF THEM ever say you can't sleep because you might have Lyme Disease even though I'm a person who has literally been bitten by hundreds of ticks growing up in the country.
JenniferMN
Posted by mlg (Member # 35383) on :
Hi,
I was on RX, then sam-e.
I was then on zithromax, albenza, and paragone, did a colonix and was off of the sam-e.
I didn't ween off. I felt really good after that colonix with the combo of meds. In fact i was off everything for over 1 week, I felt that good. I believe Gael is right about the parasites.
Posted by lundeliz (Member # 10806) on :
I was going to post a similar question, then did a search and found this. I was put on Cymbalta when I began lyme treatment in 2006.
I ended treatment in 2009 and just four months ago ended a taper off Cymbalta. I've been very ill since getting off Cymbalta. The lyme is always in the back of my mind.
The wd symptoms and symptoms of neurolyme are so similar that I don't know how I would even know if my lyme has relapsed. Is there any test at all that can tell if the lyme is active at this time?
I know I have lyme because I had the bullseye rash and many positive bands on the Igenex test. So there probably is no way to know if my symptoms are from wd or lyme, right? This is really driving me crazy.
Posted by desertwind (Member # 25256) on :
There is a clinical difference between addiction and dependence. A person can become physiologically dependent on antidepressant/ssri's.
Benzo.s work at the gaba receptor site, which is a monster in and of itself but antidepressants work on the brain in a different way. Anytime someone has been on a antidepressant for a period of time, that person needs to do a slow and steady taper.
Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :
i got dependent on opiates after surgery and the doc was no help at all.
i am so angry about this and it is making the news now.
i went online and found a number of protocols using supplements-it was really hard but i i got off them.
im sure it will be different with the drugs you are taking but you might find some info online-so many ppl are going thru this
if you have the muscle spasm, myo clonus,restless legs and arms thing i found CALM was really good
that was a bad sx for me...it still took months after i had weaned down to 5 mg a day
good luck i hope you get relief i think you are smart to ry to get off
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