This is topic Calling on Thyroid Experts and Men with Low Testosterone in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.


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Posted by lymetwister (Member # 19590) on :
 
I've been taking 4,000 IU of Vit. D for about a month now. Even so, my level is just 27 Range (30-100).

My Total Cholesterol is 390, should be less than 150

My Testosterone was 230, Range (250-1100).

My TSH was 1.74, Range (0.40-4.50)

I have every symptom of Hypothyroid and curious how much of this could be contributing to my Autonomic Dysfunction. Sure I'm in the Range for Healthy people, but I'm not healthy, so is it possible that a Sub-clinical Hypothyroid is what could be causing some of my Autonomic Dysfunction or all of it ?

I have a very open minded Dr., but I don't see him again for almost 3 weeks. I wonder what he will do with this.

What are the Natural ways to treat Hypothyroidism ? This is something I might try and do in the mean time.

Hashimotos runs in my family on my mothers side. I also have Vitiligo (Depigmentation) which I have read is associated with autoimmune thyroiditis.

Thoughts anyone ?

[ 03-27-2013, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: lymetwister ]
 

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Posted by poppy (Member # 5355) on :
 
Have you had free T3 and free T4 tests? How did you decide you were heading toward hyperthyroidism? The more common situation with lymed people is hypo.
 

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Posted by feelfit (Member # 12770) on :
 
Yeah, you're a poster boy for thyroid- read this: http://thyroid.about.com/od/gettestedanddiagnosed/a/deardoctor.htm


I thought about you immediately when I read this...vitiligo-ding, high cholesterol- ding, low D-ding....and on and on.
 

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Posted by Kat1777 (Member # 39231) on :
 
I can't answer your other questions, but it took me nine months of 5,000 units of Vitamin D to get my level from 11 to 56. I would not expect a huge jump in just one month.
 

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Posted by kim812 (Member # 17644) on :
 
I am hypothyroid and my TSH is 1.52 on 88mcg of Levoxyl. My doctor wants to keep it below 2 so if it raises up then I will go back to 100mcg. To me your TSH looks fine. I am not sure about the other levels.
 

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Posted by faithful777 (Member # 22872) on :
 
TSH is the body calling for thyroid hormone to be released. Free T3/T4 are what matters. They need to be tested. The natural thyroid meds Nature Throid and Armour work better than the synthetic hormone drugs. They have some T3 already in them.

Synthetic is T4 only and most of us are too sick to convert the T4 to T3. Sometimes supplementing with T3 is helpful.

With your testosterone so low, you can get a prescription patch to wear that will help bring that up.

As far as Vitamin D, I had to take 10,000 units a day to make my lab results move. Now my D is 68. If I drop down to 5,000IU, I drop to the 30's.
 

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Posted by kim812 (Member # 17644) on :
 
My doc tests both free T4 and T3 whenever he does my routine tests. Both of mine are in the lower end of normal so he says I am okay...my T4 was just above the lowest reading of what is considered normal.
Even when they change my meds I never notice any difference.
 

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Posted by kim812 (Member # 17644) on :
 
My doc tests both free T4 and T3 whenever he does my routine tests. Both of mine are in the lower end of normal so he says I am okay...my T4 was just above the lowest reading of what is considered normal.
Even when they change my meds I never notice any difference.
 

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Posted by n.northernlights (Member # 17934) on :
 
on the parathyroid (four glands behind the thyroid gland) forums they keep saying low vitamin D might mean one has hyperparathyroid. (the body keeps vitamin D low in order to keep calcium normal as PTH raises calcium)
The symptoms of hyperparathyroidism mimic hypothyroid

But one month with 4000IE vitamin D does not mean much, and it takes four months on high doses to fill up the vitamin D stores.

Low vitamin D also mimics hypothyroid

And celiac disease also can cause low vitamin D and hypo-like symptoms

Re. the TSH, it is not possible to say anything without at least the ft4
 

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Posted by n.northernlights (Member # 17934) on :
 
kim, when on thyroid meds, the ft4 should definitely normally be in the top quarter of the reference range
 

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Posted by girl (Member # 18022) on :
 
I'm no expert but I listened to a lecture on Candida today (Donna Gates), and she talked about how Candida affects your hormones and can cause problems for your thyroid and adrenals, so if I had a thyroid issue I would try to do things to heal the gut to see if that helps.

In addition:
She said thyroid needs good fats like Cod liver, fish oil, small amounts of butter or ghee, egg yolk, vitamin A & D are important for thyroid. You can do coconut oil.. Thyroid needs MINERALS, lots of minerals every day, also selenium, zinc and iodine!

Also, warming foods to build strength.

Hope this helps!
 

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Posted by lax mom (Member # 38743) on :
 
My husband had testosterone in the 100's. His LLMD put him on Clomid and Arimidex and it jumped up within 6 mos to normal. He is now off Clomid and maintaining.

It takes months to see an increase in Vit D. At one point I was on 40,000 IU/day because it just wasn't getting into the cells.
 

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Posted by kim812 (Member # 17644) on :
 
I am not sure this is Free T4 as it was called Free Thyroxine on the test....It was 0.82 with the range (0.76-1.46). I am fairly certain this is T4?
 

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Posted by lymetwister (Member # 19590) on :
 
Thanks everyone.. I guess I'll get the FT3, and FT4. I've done them in the past, but can't locate them.

Could this cause the terrible Anxiety I have every day ? My mood has been in the garbage too.
 

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Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
 
I am of course in the same place Lymetwister. Just had a bunch of hormones tested:

- Vitamin D = 31
- TSH = 3.6
- Free T3 - high end of normal
- Free T4 - low end of normal (0.9)
- Total Testosterone: 156
- No thyroid Ab ever show

We're similar age I believe. Many of the same symptoms... My tesosterone just tanks and tanks and tanks.

All other hormone levels normal range such as DHEA, prolactin, etc...

I also feel "dead".
 

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Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
 
I tried supplementing with 1 packet of Androgel 1.62% daily before. Did NOTHING. My T got up all the way to an impressive 250. lol. I never have tolerated any thyroid meds - natural or synthetic - severe anxiety on them and jittery feelings.

All blood Cortisol levels always smack middle normal range. I'm going to do one more saliva cortisol test (4 times a day), but I think this test may be bullcrap. Not sure.

All abnormalities with no answers. Same ole' story.
 

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Posted by Polkahero (Member # 37841) on :
 
My testosterone was 180 back in September. After doing weekly injections of testosterone cypionate and HCG my levels are up to around 1100 when I last checked. It's actually gotten a little too high so my LLND has had me reduce my dosage.
 

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Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
 
Polkahero, do you feel better as a result of treatment?
 

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Posted by lymetwister (Member # 19590) on :
 
Seek, I think Testosterone Injections are indicated with such low numbers. I don't think Androgel is meant to get the numbers where they need to be, but rather maintain them once we get there.

I'm also curious if Polkahero had results with the injections.

Seek, what thyroid meds did you try ? Ever try straight T3 ?

I'm thinking perhaps my Cholesterol is so high b/c I don't convert T4 to T3. I won't know again now until I recheck the numbers. Someone also suggested testing Reverse T3. I wish I knew more about the thyroid.
 

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Posted by Jane2904 (Member # 15917) on :
 
Sorry you are feeling so badly. I hope you can find some answers to get it all figured out.

I was wondering if anyone knows--our daughter's TSH tests around 5.0, ft4 and ft3 mid range normal. She does have post thyroid ant.

She tried the Armour and caused too many problems. Her feritin is 24.

Her adrenal saliva is normal.

Anyone have ideas on why the issues with trying to treat?

I think the Hasimotos is the reason for some of her symptoms.
 

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Posted by Sammi (Member # 110) on :
 
lymetwister, did you only have the TSH done?

You need to have the Free T3, Free T4 (besides the T3 and T4) and thyroid antibodies done. When antibodies are elevated it can indicate Hashimoto's.

As I have said before, I had hypothyroid symptoms for YEARS. Doctors kept telling me my results were normal. Finally a doctor ran the antibody tests. One result should be 0-30 to be normal, and mine was over 2000! This meant that I had Hashimoto's and my body was attacking the thyroid gland. Often people who have Hashimoto's have normal results, but treatment is still warranted.

Also, there is a lot of room to work within the normal range. For me, I feel the best when the Free T3 and Free T4 are in the upper one-third of the range.

I had consistently high cholesterol for years that was not diet or heredity related. I kept saying it was because I was hypo. When I finally found a good doctor and got properly treated, my cholesterol dropped into the mid-normal range! It can be very difficult to find a good thyroid doctor, but they do exist. If you get the tests done why not post your results for feedback.

Here are a couple of good thyroid disease sites:

Stop the Thyroid Madness http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

About.com Thyroid Disease http://thyroid.about.com/

I don't know if you have seen this chart, "Signs and Symptoms: Adrenal Fatigue vs. Low Thyroid Function" at http://www.drrind.com/therapies/metabolic-symptoms-matrix but there is a lot of great information here. Vitiligo can also be caused by adrenal fatigue. It would be a good idea to have saliva testing done to check all of your hormone levels.
 

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Posted by n.northernlights (Member # 17934) on :
 
yes, all of you: Normal TSH is very close to 1.

Often when TSH is above 5, doctors will treat, but D.O.�s are often a bit better at looking at the whole picture (symptoms plus labs)

TSH 3,5 and low ft4 also points to thyroid

thyroxine= t4, ft4= free thyroxine

The body tries to make the most of scarce resources (low ft4 ) by converting as much as possible to ft3, the active hormone. So a low ft4 and high ft3 in those that do not take thyroid meds yet mean the body is trying to sqeeze out max from low thyroid resources.


(the high ft3 can confuse a lot of people and doctors, so it is even recommended doctors do not run it when screening for low thyroid as they get hung up on the high ft3 in this case)

The german patients even have a formula to compare the level in % in the range of the ft4 to the ft3, and if the ft4 is lower than the ft3 this means hypo.

Yes, your symptoms here do point to thyroid. But the problem is what to do about it. Often only D.O�s will treat low thyroid below a TSH of 6-10.

Remember to always get that blood test for TSH first thing in the morning (as everyone cannot get an appointment with the doctor in the morning, just go back to get the blood drawn in the morning) the TSH drops to half its morning number already at 10 am
 

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Posted by lymetwister (Member # 19590) on :
 
Nice Chart Sammi... I seem to be on both sides (Adreanal and Tyroid). Guess I'll check the TPO AB along with the FT4 and T3.

Not sure what this Saliva Cortisol really means, but here it is from 2011:

I certainly don't feel better from 12pm to 4pm when I'm in the bell curve.
 

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Posted by Sammi (Member # 110) on :
 
lymetwister, be sure it is the FREE T3 and FREE T4. From what I understand they are more important than the T3 and T4.

I could not pull up your image for some reason. Did you have Cortisol tested at other times also?
 

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Posted by Polkahero (Member # 37841) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by seekhelp:
Polkahero, do you feel better as a result of treatment?

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