I have been reviewing the websites people recommended in my earlier post about thyroid support and I was able to see my GP earlier this week.
My doctor agreed that several of my symptoms suggest thyroid issues and has order a number of investigative blood tests. Definitely a step in the right direction. Past TSH tests were on the very low end of the range, suggesting hypothyroidism.
If she does believe there would be a benefit from therapy, what medication would be a good place to start?
There was a lot of info out there about synthetic vs. dessicated thyroid medications and I would like to be prepared when I go for my follow up.
Which ones are most people with thyroid issues on? Which meds have you had the most success with? Is Armour the leading therapy?
[ 04-08-2013, 06:05 PM: Message edited by: xoxoxox ]
Posted by EWT1638 (Member # 11315) on :
Chronic Lyme kills most people's thyroids. I am hypothyroid. I take Synthroid 125mg for T4, and Liothyronine Oral for T3.
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
I tested low in T3. I am very happy on Armour thyroid, 30mg 2x/day. I feel much more present.
Posted by cozynana (Member # 34270) on :
Just going through this myself. My T3 is low. I have all the symptoms. I will be addressing this with my endo soon.
If she does not address it I am moving forward to someone else.
I just listened to a clip on the web that Dr David Brownstein delivered. I couldn't believe how many of the thyroid symptoms I have had for years that noone has questioned.
Amazing and disgusting at the same time.
I think we better all go back to some kind of naturopath schooling so we can help ourselves and others.
It just gets crazier all the time.
Posted by whitmore (Member # 28721) on :
It's a TSH that's above range(not low) that indicates that you are hypothyroid.
Posted by VV (Member # 38828) on :
Robin,
How were your other thyroid labs?
I have an integrative doc who swears 50% of my symptoms are being caused by my thyroid.
This is all based on my symptoms/presentation and a lab showing low FT3. Other tests are normal (TSH, FT4, antibodies etc.)
Posted by nefferdun (Member # 20157) on :
Since starting LDN my thyroid function has been normal. In fact I have a normal body temperature for the first time in my life. I am off all thyroid meds.
Posted by VV (Member # 38828) on :
nefferdun,
Were you diagnosed with Hashi's?
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
I was tested for T3 and TSH (3rd generation). The TSH result came back in the middle of normal range and the T3 level was a couple points below the lowest range number.
After a couple weeks of going on Armour, I felt present again, not disassociated from everything, and I could "tell time was passing," whereas before, I would look at the clock going around but not feel any time passing.
My doctor explained that low thyroid puts a body in hibernation, including if you're a bear! They hibernate. So, literally, you will feel time passing again with more thyroid.
Posted by VV (Member # 38828) on :
Robin,
Have you had any issues going hyper? Do you also take HC for adrenal support?
Posted by xoxoxox (Member # 18778) on :
Whitmore - by george, you are right! I think I just assumed that a high TSH test result = hyper- (overactive) and a low TSH test result meant hypo- (underactive) but it actually appears to be the opposite.
Let�s take a look at thyroid tests, thyroid test results and how they apply to hyperthyroidism and hypothyroidism
The TSH thyroid test normal range is 0.5 � 5.5
Total t4 thyroid test normal range is 4.5 � 12.5
Free t4 thyroid test normal range is 0.7 � 2.0
Total t3 thyroid test normal range is 80 � 220
Free t3 thyroid test normal range is 2.3 � 4.2
*The differences between total t3 and total t4 and free t3 and free t4 is that things like proteins and medications can alter total t3 and total t4 hormone levels giving them inconsistent unreliable totals while free t3 and free t4 hormone levels are not altered by these things so they give more accurate thyroid test results.
With this in mind we can now look at how these test results help your physician diagnose your thyroid disease.
If your:
Thyroid test results � Pituitary gland Issue:
Total t4 = below normal � less than 4.5 and TSH = below normal less than 0.5 � There could be an issue with your pituitary.
Thyroid test results � Hyperthyroidism Issue:
TSH = below normal less than 0.5 � You may have hyperthyroidism � an overactive thyroid condition
Thyroid test results � Hypothyroidism Issue:
TSH = above normal more than 5.5 � You may have hypothyroidism � an underactive thyroid condition
Total t4 = below normal � less than 4.5 and TSH = above normal more than 5.5 � This indicates hypothyroidism � an underactive thyroid condition.
Free t4 = below normal � less than 0.7 � This indicates hypothyroidism � an underactive thyroid condition
Total t3 = below normal � less than 80 � This indicates hypothyroidism � an underactive thyroid condition
Free t3 = below normal � less than 2.3 � This indicates hypothyroidism � an underactive thyroid condition
*A lump or swelling in the front of your neck could indicate thyroid cancer and your doctor should send you for an ultrasound of your thyroid and other thyroid cancer tests available.
Posted by xoxoxox (Member # 18778) on :
So what does someone take if they have hyper-thyroidism?
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by VV: [QB] Robin,
Have you had any issues going hyper? Do you also take HC for adrenal support?
No issues going hyper. That could happen if I upped my dose, which I haven't. If I did, and went hyper, the doctor would want me to get an immediate thyroid test, and gave me a requisition sheet for that purpose.
What is HC? I don't seem to have adrenal issues, although, who knows, maybe something's going on I'm not aware of...
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by xoxoxox: [QB] [
TSH = below normal less than 0.5 � You may have hyperthyroidism � an overactive thyroid condition
TSH = above normal more than 5.5 � You may have hypothyroidism � an underactive thyroid condition
In my case, different than this. My TSH 3rd generation test result is 2.9 in a range of .400 - 4.500 mlU/L. That's midrange, and I have been low thyroid, judging by the huge response I've had to taking Armour, 30mg 2x/day.
Posted by VV (Member # 38828) on :
Robin,
HC is hydrocortisone. It is used for adrenal patients to supplement or replace what the adrenals should be making.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
quote:Originally posted by xoxoxox: The TSH thyroid test normal range is 0.5 � 5.5
I believe this is an outdated test range. 5.5 is very high to have to get to for hypothyroid. I believe they use a much lower number now.
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
I'm taking a compounded mix of T3 and T4.
Posted by nefferdun (Member # 20157) on :
VV, I tested positive for thyroid antibodies. Later on another doctor said that would be Hashi's.
Last year I had a fever for months, I was eating constantly but losing weight (20 pounds) and I had terrible insomnia. I was nervous and irritated with outbursts of near lunacy. I posted on here and a couple of people said with antibodies I would have Hashimoto's and during an attack it can release a lot of thyroid hormones causing you to be hyper.
This made so much sense because I had a history of going into periods of hyperdrive, especially after pregnancy. One doctor said it was "thyroiditis" but no one ever tested me until I had lyme.
Last year I began LDN at 0.5mg and slowly worked up to 3 mg. By the time I got the 3 I was feeling well. I quit taking my thyroid meds during the time I was hyper and never started them again.
I have a normal body temperature for the first time in my life and I am 66 years old! My temperature was always between 96.8 and 97 degrees. Now it is always around 98.6.
LDN cannot fix whatever has been destroyed but it will stop the attack. You need to be careful when you start it because you will probably have to lower your dose of thyroid meds, if not quit altogether.
My son takes it for type one diabetes (late onset in adults) and is in remission. I have read whenever type one diabetics begin LDN, they need to quickly adjust their insulin doses. One person told me his daughter needs half as much insulin on LDN.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Lets just look at the symptoms of hyperthyroid versus hypothyroid. If you have a healthy pineal gland and healthy thyroid it is overactive or underactive due to a couple of things. first hyperthyroid it is my belief is having a healthy thyroid and healthy pineal gland and it is put into action constantly to fight invaders. So it will increase t-cell killers and white blood cells to deal with issues like infection. If there is no infection in the body it will normalize when the infection is handled. With lyme it isn't handled and your body is confused (autoimmune). The infection of parasites, viruses, toxins, and yeasts or molds or both exist due to lyme. It puts you in an endless battle of fighting organisms until the thyroid pituatary or pineal gland are exhausted along with the adrenals. Once this happens you become hypothyrodic.
However there is a mind body connection and even though you resolve the infection you have to deal with retraining the body. Meditation and homeopathy are the methods to noramalize this issue, I think an LED or lots of sun time helps as well.
My recommendation is to find a way to normalize the tsh either armour or synthroid. Include seaweed in the diet, alkalization, chellation, and herbs or other methods to reduce the organism issue. Meditate daily! Use boron daily to clear the pineal gland, because many of us have issues with pineal gland calcification. The pineal gland with the pituatary gland are the conductors for all our glands. I'm still working on my thyroid damage. I do, do well with synthroid and my t3 is very much higher along with t4. It is my plan to get off synthroid. I expect to do that over time. I believe the thyroid can be regenerated despite what traditional medicine thinks.
I know when I was sick, I could barely quiet my mind to sleep any more than an hour over a few days. After I used boron, it seem to help a great deal, at least for me. I sleep now 7 to 8 hours a night with vivid dreams. Which means my pineal gland is actually generating melatonin by itself and I'm reaching a deeper level of sleep. Very important for cellular repair. And for the past few years had stopped supplementing with melatonin and sleep aids.
Try to at least to take the battle to the pineal gland because of its association with all glands, especially if your mind is racing.
We tend to focus based on traditional medicine on one organ or one gland. It isn't just the thyroid, it is an overall issue with many components. Infection, all the glands and all the organs along with digestive tract issues cause many issues which we percieve is related to thyroid problems and its damage. Our bodies are extremely intelligent and it is doing what it is doing for a reason,not because it is broken. So instead of just fixing the problem, look at the thyroid tests as a bigger question, why is my thyroid acting as it does?
I'd like to emphasis just one thing and it costs nothing. Meditation! By meditating we create a healing situation in the body. Research it a bit! So research wider when it comes to the thyroid not just t3 and t4 levels.
good luck!
Posted by Ellen101 (Member # 35432) on :
I m watching this topic with interest ad I'm extremely confused about all this. Here are my recent results. I wanted to put the results in parentheses, but I kept getting an error message saying they were not allowed. The results on the left are mine, on the right is the reference range Free T3. ~31~ ~0-20~ T3 reverse. ~19~ ~7-24~ Free T4. ~1.19~ ~0.71-1.42~ Thyroglobulin antibody. ~<20~ ~<=40~
Thyroid peroxidase ~224~ ~<35~
What is thyroid peroxidase and why would mine be so high? I am on .75 levothyroxine
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
conventional medicine looks at the thyroid peroxidase for autoimmunity. It means your immune system is attacking your thyroid, instead of beating on viruses and bacteria It is a signature of someone with lyme. Most lymies probably have this issue. Lyme is somehow turning the thyroid into a target of your own immune system. It is one of the reasons this disease is so complicated.
Posted by Ellen101 (Member # 35432) on :
quote:Originally posted by lymie_in_md: conventional medicine looks at the thyroid peroxidase for autoimmunity. It means your immune system is attacking your thyroid, instead of beating on viruses and bacteria It is a signature of someone with lyme. Most lymies probably have this issue. Lyme is somehow turning the thyroid into a target of your own immune system. It is one of the reasons this disease is so complicated.
So how do you treat it?
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
Well, I for one am doing very well by taking Armour thyroid - see above. So I think the answer may be to take some kind of thyroid.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Get rid of lyme is one but there are others:
try this link and see if it helps you think about it differently:
The article gives you 9 steps to a treatment strategy.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
I agree Robin, armour will help make you feel well and is essential until you find out why the body is dysfunctional. We only take medication to make normal a broken body. Synthroid makes me feel normal, but I'd perfer not to need it. Still searching sadly!
Posted by Ellen101 (Member # 35432) on :
quote:Originally posted by lymie_in_md: Get rid of lyme is one but there are others:
try this link and see if it helps you think about it differently:
The article gives you 9 steps to a treatment strategy.
Very interesting, thanks! I had multiple food allergies show up on recent testing including gluten and dairy and I also have issues with candida. I am waiting on results of stool testing. Perhaps these problems are causing the issues with the thyroid? I'm concerned after seeing these results that my LLNP has not changed or placed me on different thyroid meds. Perhaps she is waiting to fix these issues first?
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I agree with Bob that it's a systemic issue that is the problem. Infection, parasites, freaked-out immune system, imbalances, etc.
My thyroid is coming back. I used to take both Synthroid and Cytomel (I do not remember the dosage). I switched to one grain of Armour per day. Then 1/2. Now 1/4. It's looking like I'll be able to get off it eventually.
The first step was getting better from Lyme. That was back in 2009 for me.
After that, I watched my adrenal fatigue. I read books and information on the internet about healing the adrenal glands. I was sure to get enough sleep. Not eat sugar or simple carbs. Exercise moderately (no heavy cardio ... I do sprints instead). Balance work/play/rest. Etc.
I also added an iodine supplement to my diet. I don't do well on seaweed products and I'm allergic to shellfish, so it's harder for me to get iodine from natural sources. I use Himalayan sea salt, so it's not 'iodized.'
I eat the way Terry Wahl's talks about in her TED talk. It's a very good talk. Everyone with chronic illness should watch it! She is an MD who cured herself of MS with diet. Part of the way of eating is 3 cups of greens per day. That was LIFE CHANGING.
Today I enjoy a high level of health and people would never guess wehre I came from. Healing from Lyme is healing the body and bringing it to health. It's holistic, meaning whole body. And when the whole body is healed, it seems that the thyroid heals, too. I didn't know if it was possible since conventional medicine says that once you're on thyroid, you can't get off. Seems like I am headed in that direction.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Six -- how much we've learned over the years, so many topics so many replies. I eat seaweed salads a couple of times a week. Lots of eggs all good for natural iodides.
One thing I absolutely believe is not to throw too many organism killer hangrinades at the body, such as abx, herbs, even rifing. You have to spend time on treating the body for healing.
If your not sleeping work on diet for the adrenals and boron for the pineal gland -- which by the way, makes the melatonin to help you sleep. It probably does more but there isn't enough knowledgeable study on it.
Six -- I'll try to find time for the Terry Wahl talk and reply on this thread.
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by lymie_in_md: [QB] I agree Robin, armour will help make you feel well and is essential until you find out why the body is dysfunctional. We only take medication to make normal a broken body. Synthroid makes me feel normal, but I'd perfer not to need it. Still searching sadly!
.................................................
It's my understanding that the Lyme bacteria can attack/alter thyroid function, so that could be the reason, all by itself,
so my question is, given that I can't take antibiotics like most people can - ie, I can't do that kind of knock-out blow treatment, and I don't have a lot of money to spend on expensive treatments, doesn't it seem ok then that I'm supplementing with Armour thyroid, since that's what my body needs?
Posted by Jane2904 (Member # 15917) on :
Our daughter has Lyme and Co.
She also has post. thyroid antibodies and her TSH has been 5.10 and last Summer 5.76.
Armour gave her all over body numbness and was sleeping from mid day until night. It made her feel weak too.
Had to stop Armour, then numbness and sleep schedule slowly improved.
Any ideas?
She tried prescription meds in past for Thyroid and did not tolerate.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Robin123 -- I'm in the same boat as to supplementing my thyroid, whether it's synthroid or armour. It's all about what works for you best.
Some of the best supplements are the cheapest. Baking soda, boron, cultured butter, alkalizing diet to name a few. Some of these help and can help a great deal. My view is to do the cheaper ones first.
Its a matter of trying them off and on to see if they can be effective. For me! I can only share my experiences nothing more nothing less.
Jane if she's allergic to thyroid medicines. You kind of have to work around the issue while you try to help her get rid of lyme.
LED's can help, boron can help the pineal gland which might help the pituatary which is the signaler for the thyroid. The pituatary is the requesting gland for more thyroid production. Anything you could do to help this gland might help the thyroid.
Boron is a good supplement because it lowers the effects of flouride on these glands. Start with Boron and see if it has an effect. If flouride is an issue, she'll get headaches. At least that happened to me. Lyme isn't the only thing affect thyroid production, not that it isn't a big contributor.
If she tries it, let me know how it works for her on this thread. If not, I'll provide another thought on it for you to consider.
[ 04-18-2013, 06:53 AM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
Good discussion here.
Jane, I checked the TSH range on my records, and it says normal range is .400 - 4.500 mlU/L, so your daughter I think has something else going on regarding her thyroid situation. Does anyone here know what a high TSH count means?