your wondering why it would be low
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
YES!! Your hormones need to be in balance in order to get well.
I am a female (duh) and have been supplementing testosterone for about 12 yrs. It really helps fatigue and depression.
I have no ovaries and the ovaries DO produce testosterone. (Did you just learn something new?)
Posted by lax mom (Member # 38743) on :
I thought my husband's low testosterone was due to a vasectomy. However, it was due to Lyme.
He is 37 and had a level of 100. He did Clomid daily and Arimidex 1x/week for several mos and now it is in the 500-600 range. He is now only on Arimidex.
The testosterone gel didn't help him.
Posted by faithful777 (Member # 22872) on :
My husband uses the testosterone patch and my levels were so low I have to supplement too with bio identical testosterone cream.
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
lyme and no vasectomy here, low levels as well, it helps, it's hard to get better from lyme without first fixing the hormones
Posted by derk diggler (Member # 31903) on :
thank you guys very very much, im very nervous to
put anything in my body due to my mental state of
hell that i live in 24/7 so this is a big big step
for me i had my first shot of 50mg last week i no
thats a very low dose but were starting out slow
its pace not race, anyone notice mood improvement
and mental clarity from getting your hormones in
balance thats my main goal getting my mind stable and the fog lifting
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
YES to the mood improvement... for sure! Get some B12 shots in you also!
That could save your life!
Posted by lax mom (Member # 38743) on :
I saw a HUGE improvement in my husband's mood and energy levels.
Posted by Blackstone (Member # 9453) on :
Yes, it is important to get your hormones in balance as much as possible - thyroid, adrenal, pituitary (and thus, gonadal) are the most likely to become dysregulated for one reason or another. Lyme itself (or truly, any chronic illness) can do so - while heavy alcohol use can lower testosterone, it is unlikely to do so chronically after cessation of alcohol consumption without radical amounts and damage caused to other systems, nor will it typically lower it as much as what your tests indicate. With Lyme, it is very important to minimize your alcohol consumption. Have you stopped or cut back on your drinking already? Vasectomy should not affect your testosterone levels at all unless there are serious complications (that would have shown up already). Lyme itself is most likely your culprit
Couple of things to become aware of...
First, make sure that you test correctly. While the T levels you're listing are clearly too low , make sure you test to gain the complete picture. Test for both Free and Total Testosterone, along with Sex Hormone Binding Globulin. Also, get Testosterone tested by dialysis for another picture of the breakdown. Remember to get your blood drawn early in the morning as that is when men's levels are supposed to be highest (I personally feel that from data I've seen, this isn't always the case, when someone has a different circadian rhythm etc... but that is controversial.)
Next, make sure to get the pituitary precursors, FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) and especially LH (lutinizing hormone) tested. These, especially LH, are the signaling hormones from your pitutary to say to your gonads "Hey, make some gonadal hormones", primarily testosterone in males. If your LH is low (even low normal on the basic labcorp blood test) it may mean that your testicles simply aren't getting the right "message" to make testosterone. Generally, this is the case when it comes to many chronically ill individuals. This is a distinction known as "secondary hypogonadism" which is different from say... some defect or issue with your testicles' abilities to produce T itself even when its getting the message from your pituitary to produce more, which is "primary hypogonadism".
Next, it is important to measure related hormones. Most importantly are DHEA (which is important in and of itself and a small amount of it converts to testosterone), Estradiol (basically a measure of estrogens. Especially get this done if you're worried about alcohol consumption. You want to see if your body is converting T into Estrogens at above a normal rate), and DHT (conversion to DHT is the reason for male pattern baldness, and prostate issues). It is important to monitor these, especially DHT and Estradiol, to see how your body is converting T into other things. Generally, low T levels will mean lower amounts of DHT and Estradiol, but keep an eye on them even if you go on any sort of replacement therapy to make sure that having more T doesn't add to conversion to these substances.
Finally, I highly suggest finding a physician that isn't just interested in throwing plain old testosterone replacement itself (ie Androgel etc..) at you, especially if testing shows that you have secondary hypogonadism (ie the problem is with your endocrine system as a whole, LH etc... as opposed to just your testicles being unable to make T). Just taking T alone, means that 1) your body won't be stimulated to make its own, and 2)you may have issues with conversion to Estradiol, DHT etc...which can lead to other issues.
Instead, I suggest looking towards human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) which basically is very close to LH as a primary therapy, which may just be the "kick in the pants" your endocrine system needs to get back on track. Acting as LH, it messages your testicles to get to work and lets your body make normal levels of T, assuming it is capable of doing so. In addition, as Lax Mom mentioned, Clomid and Arimidex are great options as well. Clomid kickstarts the pituitary to produce FSH/LH as well in another way, while Arimidex is a powerful estrogen conversion blocker that can raise T levels by preventing it from being converted to estrogen. There are also several herbal supplements that can have beneficial use for a multitude of related issues (ie Tribulus Terristris for T itself, Saw Palmetto and Nettle for prostate support and mild DHT blocking etc..)
Now, if after all this your body still can't produce high enough levels of T, you may benefit from having actual testosterone supplementation, but even if you do supplement actual T, taking HCG for instance is important to keep your testicles working of their own accord and prevent/reverse atrophy.
Emerging research shows that (male) Testosterone deficiency, especially in chronic illness like lyme, is best handled in many cases by HCG/Clomid/Arimidex and other therapies that try to encourage the body to "do what it will normally do" as high up the chemically reactive "chain" as possible. Unfortunately, there are many physicians who aren't really up on the use of these and look at things in a narrow " testosterone is low, gotta supplement testosterone only" kind of way. You may have to take some time to find a physician versed in and willing to try other therapies that often have a better outcome. (By the way, Lax Mom, what sort of physician is administering your husbands Clomid/Arimidex therapy? )
Oh, and finally a couple words of warning. Do not buy HCG or anything claiming to be "homeopathic" HCG over the Internet - often it is just an overpriced fraud. Likewise, Clomid, Arimidex, Testosterone itself etc..... there is a cottage industry of online purveyors of these sorts of substances that are pretty much targeting the bodybuilding/steroid using industry (low T being a common issue when coming off steroids cycles etc..). Likewise, while I suggest finding a physician willing to look into the treatments I walked about above first, if you decide to add any herbal supplements, be sure to buy those that are organic and/or wild sourced and pure - all the herbal "T-boosters" with fancy graphics and promises you'll either "get pumped" or increase your sexual performance (ie remember Enzyte from late night TV commercials) typically have low quality, low potency herbal supplements and often a bunch of fillers and sometimes even harmful elements. You can buy "proper" preparations and extracts from legitimate supplement vendors from Xymogen/Perque/Researched Nutritionals/Natural Health Products (Natura especially has several products worthwhile). Mountain Rose Herbs is a great source of high purity, organic herbal medicines and extracts if you know what you're looking for, and you can usually buy in larger quantities (ie sold in bulk powder) for very reasonable prices.
Hope this helpss
[ 04-21-2013, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: Blackstone ]
Posted by terv (Member # 29410) on :
I second Blackstone. One should not throw testosterone at the issue.
It is very difficult to find a physician to treat low T correctly. I think it is worse than finding a LLMD.
I supplemented T for 7 months, it helped but dropped every time I stopped. It wasn't until I had made some progress with treatment that my T levels went up on their own.
T did nothing for any neurological issues and I was on a way higher dose.
Levaquin has been a massive help for my brain fog. It crosses the blood brain barrier. And it sounds like you have bartonella from the symptoms you describe.
I also talked to you like a yr ago on youtube and I think you should start a disciplined lyme treatment. It's not what you want to hear and you prob think it's near impossible because I think you've said you have some bad habits.
It's possible to change your lifestyle. It becomes reality after a while and you get used to it. Only sucks in the beginning.
Posted by Lymeorsomething (Member # 16359) on :
If you do have lyme, T may not help your symptoms. I used everything for a while without real effect, including T and HCG.
Clomid/Arimidex can help but they increase risk of blood clots in susceptible people....so something to keep in mind.
Fertility does not seem to be a concern for you at this point so you may want to try T and/or HCG with Arimidex just to see what it does for you.
I would recommend nutritional experimentation first though. Make sure there are no mineral deficiencies, which can be triggered by lyme. Make sure you're getting enough sleep. Test thyroid and adrenals if you haven't already.
Good lyme treatment will sometimes restore levels as well.
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