This is topic Could depersonalization be hormonal? in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.

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Posted by lyme in Putnam (Member # 11561) on :
I know Lyme related, but anyone think besides stress, otherwise?
Posted by lyme in Putnam (Member # 11561) on :
I asked this already. Sorry. Anyone anything new u might add? THIS WILL NOT GO . working with many and doing much.
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
While the exact cause of depersonalization disorder isn't well understood, it appears to be linked to an imbalance of certain brain chemicals (neurotransmitters).

Here for drug selections:

The drugs listed all correct what is called "vestibular dysfunction".

From different perspectives...increase GABA *or* use 5HT3 receptor antagonists to increase serotonin.

Add to the list (Ativan and Xanax as well as Zofran).

Working backwards...too friggin much glutamate (some nice, too much = toxic to nerves) and adrenaline.

Glutamate -> GABA uses an enzyme called GAD which needs B6 to activate it. We normally store about 20 days worth of B6 in our livers, but some persons (genetically) need MORE...a lot more.

In bipolar, some persons have antibodies to GAD67 and GAD65 = hello glutamate (not converting to GABA).

Glutamate, in a jam, CAN be used as a brain fuel...accelerator on!

In some persons, there is a genetic imbalance of these:

Serotonin and these 3: (dopamine, norepinephrine and epinephrine (= adrenaline). And these persons need more serotonin to compensate.

These persons are usually very smart, very driven and "type A", but maybe prone to depression.

They are genetically glutamate-adrenaline "junkies".

Caffeine and nicotine are glutamate triggers. You could say these persons are driven to Starbucks.

Then, to "come down", to put on the brakes, they need GABA...hello beer/alcohol which upregulates GABA and decreases glutamate.
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
For me, the answer was going on Armour thyroid. I tested low T3, normal TSH. When I went on it, I felt "present" again as my metabolism increased. So how are your thyroid levels?
Posted by lyme in Putnam (Member # 11561) on :
Thyroid ok. Just started bioidenticals. I'll mention arm our. Thanks.
Posted by lax mom (Member # 38743) on :
Posted by lax mom (Member # 38743) on :
Massive, massive, unrelenting stress?
Posted by lax mom (Member # 38743) on :
Stress damages the brain. Derealization and depersonalization happen when the brain needs a break.

I have had it in the past.
Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
Yes, it's call fight or flight. Most of us choose flight. The body isn't happy you are keeping everything within it.

Believe me when I tell you, you can't hide from what your body, mind and spirit's exhausted, it needs relief, it needs rest, but it also needs human interaction, it needs something to make it feel good every once in awhile.

So even though I used to feel being a hermit was good for me, I found going up to the little consignment store and looking at goodies made me feel better. It made me feel among the living.

For a very long time, I didn't understand why I completely fell in exhaustion and hiding after I had done a social event like a football game or basketball game with my husband. I made myself put one foot in front of the other and do this.

But it was pure torture for days and days afterward. One on one people I could do, but to be around a group of friends or thousands of fans?

My PCP finally decided to try me on Xanax and it did help me relax. I was on very low dose. People, especially certain people drain me.

I avoid them as much as possible. But even though I still have to make myself put one foot in front of the other to do these sports events with my husband....I enjoy it and I need joy in my life.

I need something to take my mind off of this illness. My marriage needs me to give as much as I can do. My group of close friends know when I'm not good, they can tell just looking at me and will say something without me saying a word about how I feel, they say I'm sorry today isn't a good day.

I'm not myself and they know the real me. I'm just blessed to be able to be among the living sometime. Living within my four walls, sucks.

Posted by lax mom (Member # 38743) on :
The thing with depersonalization/derealization is, as disturbing as it was while I had it, I always knew that I would never be able to "celebrate" once it was gone because I would be too busy doing other things to notice it had gone away....and that was true.

As long as I kept "checking" to see if it was still there, it would always be there. Because I was ruminating, getting stuck in my head, focusing on my symptoms. If that makes sense.
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
First it is fear...up goes adrenaline (=epinephrine) and cortisol...then fight and then flight.

But can high levels of cortisol/adrenaline ongoing trigger anxiety/fearfulness?

In other words is this possible:

fear/anxiety <-> adrenaline+cortisol

In lyme, isn't the body always responding to a dangerous situation?

How do you feel at 4pm? Cortisol has cycles.

The adrenaline-cortisol connection (watch for glucose mentioned!)- easy to understand link:

There is a need to BURY bad memories, not relive them.

And there is a powerful link to GABA (brain brake) and memory:

A quick search led me to this...for starters:

When "manic" = high homocysteine levels and thyroid hormone levels plummet.

Mania often precedes a lack of SLEEP.

The homocysteine-thyroid-and folic acid connections:

Just read the last few sentences of the abstract above to grasp the understanding.

There are 2 brain "workhorses": Glutamate ("accelelerator") and GABA ("brake"). Too much glutamate...brain on overdrive = need to take a NAP and calm down, put the information away into memory places in the brain...reorganize.

Many brilliant persons took cat naps.
Posted by nefferdun (Member # 20157) on :
Lots of really good explanations.

Hormone imbalance is like sever PMS. I had it for years before I was bitten by a tick and the depersonalization of bartonella is very different. When I was peri-menopause, I had migraines, fatigue, muscle and nerve pain in legs and insomnia. My memory was terrible. I was depressed, just did't feel like doing much. But I didn't feel like I was completely unconnected to myself and others and I didn't have irritation or anxiety so severe I could hardly function.

If you have a CBS mutation, then sulfur sends you into overdrive. Foods high in sulfur are meat, fish, poultry, eggs, soy, cabbage and carragenan (in Greek yogurt). You need to reduce the sulfur load as well as supplement GABA.

If you are under a lot of stress in addition to being sick, then you can burn out your adrenal function. I am no expert on it but when it happens to me I feel hot wired. I wake up around 2-3 AM and can't fall back to sleep.

Add bartonella to the mix, and you feel headed for the loony bin. In fact, my therapist who is pretty ignorant about lyme was shocked when I told her I had depersonalization with anxiety so sever it was like being tied to the tracks of an oncoming train. Although she had told me for over a year that I was perfectly normal, suddenly her mind was busy figuring out what mental illness she had overlooked.

When I explained about the bartonella irritation, this therapist who denies anger is a legitimate emotion (it always covers something else) made our appointments further and further apart. I probably won't see her again. I was seeing her for support through treatment as well as my crazy extended family. After describing the symptoms of bartonella to her, she completely changed. Bartonella is very scary. I set up an appointment with another LLMD who gets it (hopefully).

I also began treating myself and most of those symptoms are gone. When you get on the right drug it goes away. For some reason no one wants to recognize it.
Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
I so relate to being on high alert. My body is always under great stress and has been since July '99.

Yes, I do get breaks from feeling like this. Sometimes I'm really relaxed, like after I've had body work done on me.

Being around others can help me forget the high alert feeling. Only certain others, some quite the opposite.

Yes, trauma in ones life does relate to some of this. But the real trauma is the day or days that a vector got it's nasty mouth into our bodies and spilled the most awful gut full of toxic matter into our blood system.

You talk about trauma, he!! yes it's trauma. Add that on top of an already stressed immune system because our food supply is tainted, our dentists have been putting toxic matter in our mouths for decades, our government allows manufactures of bedding and furniture to add toxins to our homes and the air we breath.

The US Medical establishment refuses to accept Lyme, Bartonella, Babesia, parasites, chronic bacteria and super bacteria are making our people ill. There's only a hand full of medical folks in the country that understand this nightmare.

Fight or flight is totally understandable. Finding someone that can help you with it.....priceless!!!!!!!!

Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
"Fight or flight is totally understandable. Finding someone that can help you with it.....priceless!!!!!!!!"


Most endocrinologists only want to treat diabetic patients.

That's where they can make the most $
and what they know best.
Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
Marnie, I wish the diabetic world would find out about Berberine. The endocrinologists might just be out of business.

Don't find them to be the brightest bunch of specialists. In fact my experience with them is they are pretty narrow minded.

I wonder how many know Berberine might be helpful to their patients?


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