I have been putting it off but still havent really researched
I could post pone
It is right on my patio like gigi's was
Why is it such a fight to stay healthy? Why dont they leave us alone?
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
I hadn't heard they were doing that with water meters, yet. Ugh. If they are calling them "smart", probably they are emitting wireless EMF's, probably just as bad.
Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :
They didnt call them smart
The receptionist politely informed me they were outdated and being replaced by the "newest" technology so the drivers ciuld check frim the road
She said soon there would be no way to check my water usage if i didnt let theguy come...and it was not optional...i had to do it
Posted by Triple B (Member # 38746) on :
We just received a letter from our water company over the weekend stating that the needed to install a "radio read meter" in the basement.
It will enable them to read the meter from a car as they drive by rather than walking up to the house.
I'm concerned about EMFs too. We don't even have WiFi.
I was hoping if I just keep postponing the phone call to set up an appointment, they'll forget about it but it sounds like its becoming the norm.
Posted by 'Kete-tracker (Member # 17189) on :
"so the drivers ciuld check frim the road"
This undoubtedly means these new 'smart' water meters most likely act like a toll transponder (or a keychain "Speedpass" transponder) which is to say that they "chirp" back some digital info- to the Co. truck- on your water use for the month... but ONLY WHEN the water-meter fella requests the data, via a short signal burst signal from his truck, sent by an onboard wireless "reader".
I honestly wouldn't worry a tad. The worry will do Far more than the second or two of radio E.M.F. "traded" each month!
Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :
Nice to know it wil only be active once every 3 months...not cinstantly like the elec meters
Posted by dbpei (Member # 33574) on :
I know we have them here, lpkayak. Thanks for the info Kete. Makes me feel more at ease about it.
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
quote:Originally posted by 'Kete-tracker: "so the drivers ciuld check frim the road"
This undoubtedly means these new 'smart' water meters most likely act like a toll transponder (or a keychain "Speedpass" transponder) which is to say that they "chirp" back some digital info- to the Co. truck- on your water use for the month... but ONLY WHEN the water-meter fella requests the data, via a short signal burst signal from his truck, sent by an onboard wireless "reader".
I honestly wouldn't worry a tad. The worry will do Far more than the second or two of radio E.M.F. "traded" each month!
I wouldn't assume that at all. At least in my area, with the electric meters, they said the same thing, so they can check from the road. But, they give out their signal about once every couple seconds, every minute of every day.
If the purpose is to drive by and catch the signal, that would mean in theory something could be devised to do that, just giving out a signal when the driver goes by and requests it. However, that certainly does not mean that is how it will work, only that it could potentially work that way. They will do what is easiest/cheapest for them, nothing more and nothing less.
Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :
I wonder if i should put up one of those shields they sell to protcectt you from the smart meters
It is a few feet from.my favorite place to sit on the patio...only shady place
Posted by 'Kete-tracker (Member # 17189) on :
Michael, Those latest electric Co. "smart meters" are a whole different animal. They talk to each *other*, AND the "master" meter for that neighborhood talks to the utility VIA the nearest "cell tower" on a regular basis (daily). Lots more EMF being traded.
The one who's unlucky enough to have the master meter for that local area has to deal with (is exposed to) the EMF activity both between the meters AND between his/her meter & the celltower!
But the worst offender? It's often the meter that has to "SHOUT" (via ~1GHz radio waves) to the next meter because it's at the "end of the line", or further away, & has to transmit a stronger signal to be heard. That's my understanding anyhow, after reading up on these things.
P.S: The Big advantage is that the utility doesn't have to pay a meter reader to drive all around, or maintain & insure that vehicle... a BIG savings.
Posted by 'Kete-tracker (Member # 17189) on :
By the way, the reason this "remote monitoring" is done using the "smart" electric meters is the Electric utilities need to be able to monitor residential (neighborhood) & commercial/industrial power usage on a continual basis.
They can then retrieve updated "power load" data, say, hourly & even every 10 minutes or so, using this setup. This allows them to best allocate ("route") the juice & bring power generating sources on & off-line, as needed, for maximum system efficiency.
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
quote:Originally posted by 'Kete-tracker: Michael, Those latest electric Co. "smart meters" are a whole different animal. They talk to each *other*, AND the "master" meter for that neighborhood talks to the utility VIA the nearest "cell tower" on a regular basis (daily). Lots more EMF being traded.
The one who's unlucky enough to have the master meter for that local area has to deal with (is exposed to) the EMF activity both between the meters AND between his/her meter & the celltower!
But the worst offender? It's often the meter that has to "SHOUT" (via ~1GHz radio waves) to the next meter because it's at the "end of the line", or further away, & has to transmit a stronger signal to be heard. That's my understanding anyhow, after reading up on these things.
P.S: The Big advantage is that the utility doesn't have to pay a meter reader to drive all around, or maintain & insure that vehicle... a BIG savings.
Yes, I've heard all about this, this was the latest when mine was installed. All this means is they are not using the latest in my neighborhood, or they are but all homes are constantly sending signals every couple seconds as part of this (I've gone around with a meter, so I know that is happening).
I can see the allure from the electric company perspective, and also how that will surely invite the hackers who like to screw things up to try to hack in and bring it all down.
Posted by 'Kete-tracker (Member # 17189) on :
Oh, I'm sure the young hackers will eventually try to get into the new system, especially ones that have mastered the cell phone system (the 800 & 1800 MHz "trunking systems").
But I suspect the Big Prize... altering the data that the power utility collects, so that YOUR electric bill is smaller han it should be, will be no small feat!
But my view of the wireless collection the water utility Co.s are starting to use, namely to "page the-meter-at-the-top-of-the-driveway-once-a-month" sure beats getting wet during a drenching rain, w/ minimal detrimental effects due to "spurious R.F." (EMF). ;-)
Posted by Looking (Member # 13600) on :
Some serious "food for thought" about these new water meters. Well worth the read.
"Now the same scenario is unfolding with water metering. It’s all about the cost to the utility. They save money on meter readers, and consequences to the consumer be da***d.
(I always take the review of a new technology at a "groupie" site [stopsmartmeters(dot)org] with a shaker of salt.)
Now... I'll post 2 interesting excerpts from the above Wiki smart-meter article's "Opposition & concerns" section, about 3/4 of the way down-
"The attorneys general of both Illinois and Connecticut have stated that they do not believe smart meters provide any financial benefit to consumers,[84] however, the cost of the installation of the new system will be absorbed by those customers." &
"The CCST [CA Council on Science & Technology] report in April 2011 found no health impacts, based both on lack of scientific evidence of harmful effects from radio frequency (RF) waves and that the RF exposure of people in their homes to smart meters is *likely to be minuscule compared to RF exposure to cell phones and microwave ovens*.[87]" (asterisks mine)
Pfft! Now THAT'S really throwing darts blind-folded! How in the heck do you *quantify* microwave exposure from Ovens & Cellphones when there are so many types, varied conditions & ways of using these products??
Posted by CherylSue (Member # 13077) on :
Wifi, microwaves, radio frequencies, etc. are a part of our modern society. They are in our schools, air waves, airports, cell phones, microwave ovens, hospital settings, satellites, etc.
You cannot escape them. The sun gives off a lot of damaging radiation, too, but we all go outside.
We can't control the exposure, so I guess we shouldn't focus on it, but focus on things we can control (diet, exercise, healthful living, etc.)
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
quote:Originally posted by CherylSue: Wifi, microwaves, radio frequencies, etc. are a part of our modern society. They are in our schools, air waves, airports, cell phones, microwave ovens, hospital settings, satellites, etc.
You cannot escape them. The sun gives off a lot of damaging radiation, too, but we all go outside.
We can't control the exposure, so I guess we shouldn't focus on it, but focus on things we can control (diet, exercise, healthful living, etc.)
Some of us CAN control our wireless exposure in a number of ways. I'll agree generally to the "focus on what you can control" approach, but point out that wireless exposure absolutely falls into that, at least for some of us.
I take a lot of difficult steps to do that at work, where the majority of my exposure is, and I also know from very real experience that if I didn't take those steps, I would have lost my job due to inability to work, and thus would be unable to afford any kind of meaningful treatment which is so important.
I do suspect, primarily as a numbers game, there are others who are sick here on this board who could benefit from more control of their wireless exposure. In some cases it can be difficult to know how important it might be. Very similar to the importance of avoiding gluten for some, it might be very important but people are exposed to it regularly enough that they cannot easily see what the impact is (without avoidance for a weeks/months, which apparently often needs to be very complete and strict avoidance).
Posted by Catgirl (Member # 31149) on :
I agree with Michael. We recently started working on reducing EMFs from our environment and feel much better. We purchased some dirty electricity protectors and they made quite an impact on our tinnitus (for the better).
There is a really good book worth reading called: "Zapped: Why Your Cell Phone Shouldn't Be Your Alarm Clock and 1268 Ways To Outsmart The Hazards of Electrical Pollution" (Gittleman).
Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :
Thanks for that book catgirl
I agtee with micael
A few yrs ago i was able to make one room in my house akmost emf free and it wasnt a bedroom.but i turnef it into one knowing i would get at least 8-10 hrs a day away from emfs....i felt so much better
I think of it like chemical sensitivities...the more you can remove the better your body can handle what you cant remove
Posted by elara (Member # 41819) on :
None of these "smart meters" transmit EMF that is any more of a problem than your cell phone, your home wireless phone, the computer you are on now, the WIFI in your house or anyplace its available, your TV, your microwave etc...
They all ( except your 10000 watt microwave) use very low level milliwatt 2.4GHz which decays in strength by the inverse square of the distance from you. So the cell phone or wireless phone you hold 1 inch from your brain is 1000 times worse than a box required to transmit at the same levels a few hundred feet away. Your TV and computers have 1-2GHz buses that transmit an enormous amount of RF energy.
Sorry to give the bad news. For the last 15 or so years, we have been bathed in 2.4GHz radio signals everywhere we go from a myriad of devices. If its going to be problem, the experiment is already underway and its far beyond "smart" boxes.
Posted by Looking (Member # 13600) on :
I agree with Michael, too, about controlling exposure.
I take Wikipedia with a shaker of salt also as it is free for anyone to edit and, as a result certain interests, corporate or otherwise, may introduce biases or prejudices into the articles as they state in their disclaimer.
For me, I have more faith in the experiences of citizens who make no profit on sharing their stories than I will ever have in "Science", Politicians or the like when they stand to profit from the technology.
History shows that government has been slow to protect us from harmful chemicals, tobacco, emissions etc. when there is money to be made.
Of course governments, as they are heavily invested in the technology, accept industry funded studies as true and basically ignore the hundreds of non-industry funded studies showing concern from many highly qualified experts about the wireless grid that is all around us now.
I think it is wise for people to inform themselves as to the risks and take measures to protect themselves and their families. And to limit exposure of iPads, cellphones, etc for children as their brains are much more vulnerable than an adult brain.
-------------------------- I found this report from a family who lost their son to brain tumors to be very troubling:
"Ethan was diagnosed with the tumours three months after he was given a wi-fi-connected iPod.
Ethan's parents later discovered he had been falling asleep with it under his pillow. Even though it was on standby, it was still emitting bursts of radiation as it tried to connect to the router, Mr Wyman said.
Doctors who saw Ethan said the tumours appeared to be about four months old, Mr Wyman said. He died, aged 10, less than a year after diagnosis last August.
"We're not saying that caused it, but it seems like a bit of a coincidence."
We know we have to protect ourselves from the sun by limiting exposure, using sunscreen etc., to avoid skin cancer.
So, I think the same prudence with emf is a good thing as we don't yet know what increasing exposure of the population to emf will show as time goes by.
And it is the accumulation of repeated and increasing exposure that may show up years down the road so just as those who work with radiation have to monitor their exposure perhaps we should all be cautious with emf's as well.
The precautionary principle is recommended even by many in the industry.
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
quote:Originally posted by elara: None of these "smart meters" transmit EMF that is any more of a problem than your cell phone, your home wireless phone, the computer you are on now, the WIFI in your house or anyplace its available, your TV, your microwave etc...
They all ( except your 10000 watt microwave) use very low level milliwatt 2.4GHz which decays in strength by the inverse square of the distance from you. So the cell phone or wireless phone you hold 1 inch from your brain is 1000 times worse than a box required to transmit at the same levels a few hundred feet away. Your TV and computers have 1-2GHz buses that transmit an enormous amount of RF energy.
Sorry to give the bad news. For the last 15 or so years, we have been bathed in 2.4GHz radio signals everywhere we go from a myriad of devices. If its going to be problem, the experiment is already underway and its far beyond "smart" boxes.
- True for those wireless devices, yes, anyone using those regularly, no need to bother avoiding those smart meters. They are likely contributing only a very minor amount of your exposure, unless all those other devices are regularly off during the night and the smart meters are close to where you are sleeping at night. In that case, they could be between you and getting good restorative sleep.
- Computers can be used with the wirless aspect disabled.
- Don't know about new-fangled TV's, but old-fangled TV's don't have wireless. They do have other EMF's, and microwaves that are plugged in but not running also emit non-microwave EMF's. These non-microwave EMF's might be just as bad or worse for some people; for me I know the microwaves are much worse.
- In the category of experiments, we have the cellphone towers that are within 100 ft of where we live, for many of us. At that distance, the signal strength is low, but being constant, the impact is something we may never be able to determine. I think some have shielded their home from these, so that does appear to be an option, for those who can afford it and think it would be worthwhile.
Posted by 'Kete-tracker (Member # 17189) on :
Originally posted by elara: "If [exposure to low-level microwave signals] going to be problem, the experiment is already underway and its far beyond "smart" boxes." ______________________________________________
Great point, elara. And the same can be said for ther Great Experiment of High CO2 in our planet's atmosphere... CO2 ppm levels that have shot up to 400ppm lately (February 2014- Keeling's Hawaii monitoring station). And all of us here have very little control over That problem, unfortunately.
Posted by 'Kete-tracker (Member # 17189) on :
Originally posted by MichaelTampa:
"Don't know about new-fangled TV's, but old-fangled TV's don't have wireless. They do have other EMF's, and microwaves that are plugged in but not running also emit non-microwave EMF's." __________________________________________
I DO know about this stuff. I've fixed 'em for 25-30 years. The "new" LCD & LED TVs are F-A-R less "radiation emitting" than the old picture tube ('jug') televisions, thank God. No X-rays (no high voltage!) & very lttle "wasted energy".
As for microwave ovens sitting idle on your countertop... the ones with mechanical "dingers" (no digital clock)?... They give off as much "non microwave radiation" as an old table lamp that's turned off... essentially zero. And the ones WITH digital clocks? A tiny amount (when not running)... as much as a bedroom digital alarm clock!
Posted by Catgirl (Member # 31149) on :
Love your post Looking!
I relate people's lack of awareness and or acceptance with EMFs being a problem sort of like the acceptance of lyme in the medical community. It's difficult to punch a hole through anyone's belief system. Plus, people love the convenience of technology and don't like the idea of giving it up, limiting it or changing things.
There is so much more to this subject than most people are aware of. The frequencies used for cell phones are detrimental to every living thing on the planet (research it).
Nature did not intend for anything to be pulsed 24/7 at the frequencies the cell phone companies use. There are healthier frequencies they can use, but for some reason or other they don't want to change them. Maybe because they are in denial, or maybe it's because they might have to pay out.
You can't see smell or taste these things, but they are there, and they have been getting worse every year.
Regardless of any information or skewed info out there, EMFS truly affect me. Limiting my exposure to them is a no brainer.
About smart meters --electrical, not sure about the water ones (for those interested), we all have the ability to oppose or opt out of getting them forced upon us. Californians fought for this right, and we can all do the same. They just pay $5 extra a month extra to keep their regular meter. I know paying $5 for it sounds crazy, but it is what it is. $5 not to be exposed to this stuff is worth it to me.
Anyone interested can and should write their cities, governors, and congresspeople to enact the same right. This is our country, not the utility companies'. I know we're all sick with lyme, but we have to fight for our health. Our immune systems depend on it.
Best wishes to everyone,
Cat
Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :
I hope it works for me to opt out of elec meter City was very pushy about doing water and i put it off for a year-many surgeries and excuses this year-but city persisted and kept saying NOT optional Maybe they figure if they get them thru fast it will be harder to let people refuse I talked to the elec meter guys and told them not to change mine.Out without telling me-they said the guys didnt want it ti go thru cuz they would all lose their jobs. He said the city started to put them in and then stopped cuz there was some kind of problem...maybe it was the califinia thing, ...i hope i dont have to fight this With my house underconstruction and other things that have happened this year i only have one safe room from. Emfs...it was better when i had one dirty room...i want to get back to that I bought my trifield meter ti be sure this house was ok.and within a year they are changing things beyond my control to bring more emfs
I get all tingly in my tonge and fingers when there is too much...if i dont get off computer when it happens my fingers burn
Posted by Looking (Member # 13600) on :
Catgirl:
This should make you happy to pay your $5 a month to keep your meter.
-------------------------------------------
To keep your old BC Hydro meter (analogue), it will cost you $32.40 a month
"VANCOUVER BC, Canada – Customers who do not want to have a smart meter, but want to keep their old meter or a radio off-meter will have to pay monthly fees.
The British Columbia Utilities Commission (BCUC) has approved the meter choices fees that will apply to customers who choose to retain an old meter or a radio-off meter.
BC Hydro filed an application last fall to recover fees to offset the expense of providing meter options to eligible customers."
----------------------------
My reply: The BCUC was supposed to be a consumer advocate body but they are now directed by government to support BC Hydro so the people are penalized. There is no way it costs Hydro $32.40 a month to allow people to keep their safer meters.
In my opinion, This is all extortionary in hopes people will give up and take a "smart meter" before the deadline of the class action lawsuit against Hydro which finally comes to court January 2015 in spite of Hydro's numerous stall tactics.
Yes, our government, too, supports utility companies over it's own people.
According to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms: Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.
Apparently that no longer applies in your own home if Hydro decides otherwise.
Government even wrote a new Electric Tariff that exempted Hydro of any responsibility if your home or contents are damaged during the exchange of meters done live and any fires or fried computers, appliances etc., are always blamed on the homeowners base plate.
Sorry for the rant! This further intrusion on my lyme-eroded health is driving me crazy. Posted by Catgirl (Member # 31149) on :
Looking, I'm so sorry to hear this.
It does sound like they are hoping people will give in before the deadline. Can you email local lyme groups in your area (yahoo)? Are there any internet petitions you can start for Canada (we have Care2 here)? There is still time, and it might be the fastest way to fight.
Maybe you can hire a college student (cheap) to stand in front of a grocery store with a petition? I know lyme is expensive, but you're under a time constraint here. There is always the pen.
For anyone else reading this, doing nothing means good luck with your smart meters as they will be forced upon you (once they're in, good luck getting rid of them). The more people wright and fight, the better chances we have. There is strength in numbers.
Everyone, please write for your rights. It's cheap and easy to do. It's also a very nice legacy to leave behind for our kids and grandchildren.
Let your city know you don't want them beforehand, as the utility companies work city by city until they fully infiltrate a state. Also your governor, senators, etc. You can type one letter and cc all of them.
Posted by Catgirl (Member # 31149) on :
Lp, I would write everyone now (proof). A verbal opt out probably won't stop it for you. A letter is a whole different animal. Also one to your city, governor, congresspeople, etc.
Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :
I have too many fights right now i cant afford more emotionally
If it happens i think i will get the products tht block it
I hope soon i will have micro, frigge, compurter line(not wifi) and phone charger in the same place and i will be there as little as possible
I want to turn fuse box off when i sleep but i have radon fan and smoke detectors hooked up so dont think i can
Posted by 'Kete-tracker (Member # 17189) on :
Get an olde microwave oven in good shape (no glowing display),
a "camp" refrigerator (3' tall) w/ separate freezer is good... & Elmer-glue extra styrofoam to the top, front & sides (That way it turns on the least. Real cheap to run, too!),
a *laptop* which you charge up once-a-day (& keep it's adaptor unplugged the rest of the time),
and use a freagin' *wired* phone that doesn't NEED A.C. power. It just runs it's lights/ backlight, # memory (& everything else) right from the D.C. avaiable on the telephone line. Power outage? No problem! Still works.
THAT, my friends, is how you'll minimize exposure to "spurious R.F."... not that I think it's affecting most of you, healthwise, in the amount that's been implied along this thread... but, that's My opinion.
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