[I'm bringing this back up. Scroll down to today's date below. Verizon has cut us off & I have to solve this ASAP. They are coming tomorrow am, although I probably can't solve it by then].
I know that wi-fi really isn’t supposed to be healthy for us, as it subjects us to yet more EMF. I know that Dr. K speaks about this a lot.
At the same time, it is hard in this day and age, to not ever use it. My current computer, a Macbook Air, doesn’t even have an Ethernet socket. I would have to buy a special adapter, and would have to sit near our router, which means that I couldn’t use it in much of the apartment.
My questions are:
Is FIOS worse health-wise than cable wi-fi?
Right now, we have DSL through Verizon, but the signal strength, etc. has been horrible, the whole 5 years we’ve had it. Many, many complaints to Verizon have gotten us nowhere. And DSL is a very old technology, which is hardly up to date.
Right now we can only get that or cable internet through Time Warner, which is another hated company, as their customer service is horrible (as is Verizon’s).
But we may be able to get FIOS soon, if they ever finish wiring our building for that.
But I’m concerned that:
1/ I don’t think you can ever turn it off---which isn’t good,
2/ The signal strength is probably a lot stronger, which makes it more effective, but likely is worse for one’s health.
Aside from whatever I do at home, of course, in an apartment, we are all affected by our neighbors’ wi-fi (not to mention cell phone towers, cordless phone, etc.).
I am not aware of being affected by EMF, and have no symptoms that I know of, but that doesn’t mean that I’m not affected. I do notice that if I am on the computer late at night too much, I get wired, which may be from the light of the computer, as well as the stimulation in general.
What do you know about this? What have your experiences been?
I have tried to get this information on the internet, but haven’t gotten any answers. I do know that a Lyme friend, who is very, very sensitive, had FIOS installed in her apartment, and had terrible symptoms, and had to have it removed. But she is terribly allergic and sensitive to everything.
Thank you!
[ 03-19-2018, 10:34 PM: Message edited by: Rumigirl ]
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
I've used Verizon FIOS for probably about 3 years now. The routers they gave out at the time (hopefully still), have 4 hookups for wired ethernet connection. It can be set up to have the wireless turned off. Just ask for it at installation. At least that was our experience, of course things have changed.
Only problem we had is one time there was some power issue, if I remember, we lost power in the home for more than 3 hours, so the Verizon FIOS went down (it requires power, but has batter backup that only lasts so long). Somehow, when things got started back up, the wireless was on. Not sure if that's how it happened, but bottom line, at some point it got on accidentally. I noticed it and we got it fixed by calling customer service, we were given instructions on how we could change this back and forth should we ever want to (not sure I could find where I put them if I had to). Good to have a wireless meter on the premises to occasionally check if things are they way you desire!
Could you clarify if your friend was using FIOS via wireless or wired version? You can also use FIOS for phone and TV, etc. The wireless version is brutal, I have visited relatives.
To use wired most effectively, if you've got several rooms in your house/apartment, you might need to do wiring. Or, the sloppy way is to get a couple long cables, or of course always use the computer in one spot...
By the way, you can turn the routers off. So if you go the route of using wireless, you can turn the router on and off whenever you choose. Far better is to go wired, but that is an option.
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
Just re-reading and seeing you are in an apt. If you've got plenty of neighbors, you might prepare yourself for the fact that your neighbors will be killing you with their routers, unless you move or do something to shield your living space.
Posted by bcb1200 (Member # 25745) on :
Wifi is wifi. Fios vs Cable doesn't matter.
Now cable and fios may have different wifi routers which can make a difference.
I have Fios and have turned off the wifi in the router they provided. I use it as a wired router only. You need it for Fios tv. But the wifi is off. Just log into the router and click on the wifi tab and turn to off.
I use a separate independent net ear wifi router when I need one. I unplug it when I don't need it. 90% of the time everying in my house is a wired connection including my MacBook which I use with a wired connection through the inexpensive adaptor you mentioned.
Posted by Rumigirl (Member # 15091) on :
Thank you, guys! So you have mostly been using it wired, which, of course, is better for us. Except for our neighbors!! Although for
some strange reason their signal strength is always poor (further away, I guess. I know because I check ours, and it shows all the many ones around.
Has anyone experienced a difference in using it wired or wi-fi (either cable or FIOS. I'm sure that you likely would only notice the difference long-term, unless you are extremely sensitive.
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
I am extremely sensitive to these things and notice wireless exposure quite rapidly in some instances, depending how closely the device is to my head. In some cases, I notice this in a minute or so. The symptoms build with length and intensity of exposure.
I should clarify on my remarks, we use FIOS for phone and internet. The FIOS phone is run through the regular phone jacks that were already installed through the house. For the internet, as I said, you need to wire to the router, so if you want different rooms, you need long wires or installation of jacks (with the jacks connected by wires inside walls or above ceiling).
But, we do not use FIOS TV, we use DirecTV, just because they have the NFL football package and FIOS does not. When visiting relatives that had FIOS TV, we had the router turned off (did not bother trying to switch it to wired, just turned it off). I do not recall for sure, but it seems they were still able to watch TV, but did not have access to the TV guide, or some such features. So that is something to check on before ordering, if it is important.
Posted by bcb1200 (Member # 25745) on :
For FIOS, if you have FIOS TV you need to have their router turned on as it is the thing that feeds the guide and the on-demand services to the TV system. No router, no FIOS TV.
But you can turn off the wifi on the FIOS router by logging into the router and turning it off.
Posted by Mike76 (Member # 44246) on :
you could turn it on at night while no one is using it and on during the day etc.. understand this is that same signal as cordless phones 2.4 ghz so if you have cordless phones like all your neighbors do then seriously you turning of your wifi isn't doing much good.. you would also have to tuen of wifi on every device you own. also cordless phones have way better range then the routers do.
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
I agree the cordless phones I have come across really do put off very significant signals, even when not being talked on. This is way more than cellphones when not being talked on. What I'm not so sure about is how many neighbors/people actually have them anymore. I would've guessed cellphone popularity has really decreased use of the cordless phones, no?
Posted by Rumigirl (Member # 15091) on :
Hmm, I know that cordless phones aren't good for us either. Dr. K again talks about this. But I long ago got used to the convenience, so I can talk on the phone in different rooms, while stretching, doing dishes, etc. without tripping over wires, which I definitely would do otherwise.
And I'm now recouperating from a horrible injury and resultant surgery from a bad fall at home, so no fall risks for me!
Somewhere I have an EMF meter, but forget if it can check on things like cordless phones or wi-fi. It was a $40 meter from many years ago. Called Dr. Gauss, or something like that.
So do you guys only use corded phones?
There is a lot to consider here, esp considering the "soup" of EMF many of us live in these days!
Posted by Mike76 (Member # 44246) on :
Yes still most people have home phones. Though cell phones are used a lot more as primary phones. The marketing of triple plays ( phone,internet,tv) has kept it alive. So it's in the home just not used as much.
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
Most def only a corded phone for me, absolutely. We do have a few so we can talk in different rooms, but you can't walk freely from one room to the next during a call in quite the same way. (You can, just have to set the one down, pick the other one up, then ideally hang the first one up for better reception for all.)
And with the cordless you have to be careful regarding the word "use" as Mike says. Even if you're using another phone for almost all calls, just having the cordless phone base plugged in and on so it will ring when a call comes in means there will be a terribly large level of wireless signals broadcast throughout the home. While the range is "good" so it can function as desired (which is bad for your health), still, it is highest at the source, and the common approach of having those bases right on the end table next to your bed (3 feet from your head when sleeping) is just horrific.
You gotta do what you gotta do, but consider how important it is to do jumping jacks and cook food and sign for UPS packages all at the same time you're talking on the phone. You might find it's not worth it.
Those Dr. Gauss meters aren't really that great, I don't think they show you any numbers, but if you need to be scared that they're giving off EMF's perhaps it will show you that. Some other meters can show you the strength of the cordless phone signals you are using and allow you to compare to a wireless router and wireless laptop signals. My guess would be the cordless phone and wireless router are about on par, but then wireless laptop when you're using it and right next to it, will be worse. This is just a guess. Those meters can tell you for sure.
As you say, there are many variables involved. You may have neighbors polluting you, and what you're willing/able to do regarding that is part of that equation too.
Posted by Rumigirl (Member # 15091) on :
Thank you, Michael, more food for thought.
I figured that the meter i have couldn't be the best. I assume that you don't have one, since you are EMF sensitive. Do you know what ones are good for this?
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
I assume your comment relates to the EMF's the meters themselves give off. I think they give off very little. Whatever they give off, they pay in return million-fold by aiding in ability to avoid worse exposures. I believe they do not send out wireless signals, but of course they are electronic devices so must make some EMF's.
From this webpage, I have been using something like what is being sold as "BASIC RF METER". Same brand, but mine goes from 1MHz to 8GHz. Perhaps that brand does not make that range anymore, or maybe this website just doesn't carry it.
Just recently I purchased the one labeled "8 GHz RF METER".
I wanted something to be more sensitive on measuring lower amounts, it's reported range is twice as low on the intensity. What I am finding, just starting to use it, is they are not matching at low intensities supposedly in the range for both, but stronger intensities they are pretty close. Perhaps the cheaper one just isn't that accurate at low intensities, but I have no proof yet of which one is right at those lower intensities.
I am in the process of hiring a consultant come out and do some measurements. Perhaps that will sort out some of these differences. Her device is much more expensive, probably something neither you nor I would every pay for, something like $5,000. You can see below what she offers for sale, not sure what she uses as have not had her come out yet.
While the cheaper $80ish one I have been using is not perfect, it has done a lot for me over the years in identifying when people had cellphones or laptops with wireless on, and when our own router accidentally had its wireless on, and helping me figure where to sleep in hotel rooms, and which hotels are better/safer than others, and knowing my home has way lower levels than many many other places, and on and on.
Perhaps it has missed some opportunities along the way, and I can't say what it's missed on me because it would've been missed.
I added a new one to the mix because of very specific situations going on where I need something more specific with careful documentation and whatnot, in most cases people may not need that. If one is extremely sensitive, and looking to mitigate to extremely low levels, the $80ish may not work, but then, in that situation a consultant may be the best way to go anyway.
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
Just wanted to give some more info, as I was just at a hotel that had cordless phones in the rooms. The cordless phone in my room, when I took the receiver off the hook, read the highest of any wireless device I have measured (including various wireless routers, right up against them, and various cellphones, right up against them, this was much stronger).
I know there is significant variation from device to device, and this is part of how this happened. But the other takeaway is just that these cordless phones can be pretty nasty.
I gave the phone to the front desk during my stay.
Posted by Catgirl (Member # 31149) on :
We have Fios but the tvs are hooked up to cables, and we turned the wifi feature off. Whatever you do, don't go for the new supped up quantum version (or the boxes that go with it). That router about killed me.
We unplug our router at night now and have noticed a difference.
I can't do cordless phones either.
Posted by Rumigirl (Member # 15091) on :
Thank you, guys. This all helps. We still don't have access to FIOS, but it is probably coming. The whole issue of EMF is such a minefield, as it's everywhere!
Posted by Rumigirl (Member # 15091) on :
I’m bringing this back up because Verizon is cutting us off from the copper wires for phone & interenet---quite brutally, I might add. We now have next to no internet at all (only a few minutes a day) until I solve this and can get it installed. I can’t do anything without internet!
I have been using wifi and cordless phones for years, because of the convenience. But more importantly, because I can’t sit, due to the severe injury, surgery (mentioned above), and resultant CRPS nerve condition that developed from this. I can only lie on the couch.
The FIOS router, according to what Michael from Tampa said above years ago, is brutal---it’s now the FIOS Quantum Gateway. So, that sounds not good for wifi.
I am not aware of being sensitive to EMF, except when I’m on my laptop on wifi late at night (it makes me kind of wired). So who knows how it’s affecting me the rest of the time. Plus, we live in an apartment in the city, where everyone else has FIOS, or cable.
I am thinking about what Michaeltampa says above. It would be better health-wise, clearly, to not have wifi and cordless phones. However, the wiring issue to 3 rooms is one issue; surely Verizon wouldn’t do this.
The other bigger issue is that I have severe issues with falling/tripping (7 bad falls in 4 years, 3 of them catastrophic). So to have wires when in use is too risky for me.
Unless somehow the wiring can be done to each room and close to where we’d need it. There are 2 of us, however with 2 computers, so back to the wires problem.
The same for corded phones---wires around. On the phone issue, I had to get a new phone in 2014, and wanted a cordless phone that wasn’t DECT, 5 ghz. But no other kind of cordless phone was sold anywhere, even online. They are banned in Europe, due to the bad health effects. I just surrendered because of my other issues.
With the phone and the router we’ve had, I unplug them when we go to bed. But they’re plugged in the rest of the time.
Any suggestions? The fixes are probably fairly limited.
Thank you! Michael, if you see this, your feedback above is great.
Posted by Christopher J (Member # 46401) on :
You don't have much of a choice, if you want the internet, you're going to have to deal with the wifi/ fios. BTW FIOS isnt some magical technology, it's just using fiber optics to bring you internet instead of coax cables. I think you should stop thinking about it. Just stressing on something like that can cause as many health problems as the underlying issue.
Posted by Christopher J (Member # 46401) on :
Oh and I have to add that DECT phones weren't 'banned in Europe for health reasons'. This is absolutely ridiculous and the reason there was a warning put out on certain DECT phones is not because they were dangerous but because they were made cheaply and sometimes operated in the guard bands thus interfering with other networks. A signal at 5.8 ghz is really no different to your health than one at 900 mhz or 2.4 ghz. And btw, whether or not you have WIFI or DECT, I hate to break it to you but you are surrounded by similar signals all the time from cell towers. GSM/LTE uses 1900, 1700/2100, 850, 700, now 600, it goes on and on. All of these are floating above you in your house right now. And you're not dead. So yeah...
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- For anyone with hyperacusis who still has their regular land line phone, I suggest keeping it. Yes, it's more expensive to have this arrangement but cheaper than the irritation or even damage that can occur with other options.
Certain sounds with fiber optic lines can be similar to cell phones with their warps, sudden little burps of air (it seems) or of volume or energy to the ears in star wars sort of way.
Be sure - if a cell phone is used - to always stay as far from it as possible unless actually talking on it. Talk, then move away. Especially keep it out of bedroom as even if not on, the signals can interfer with heart rhythm and brain during sleep.
While I still have my land line, even talking to others with FIOS can really hurt my ears, cause poor communication and hamper chance for real conversation / relationship . . .
but - for some who might also have sound triggered seizures, it's not worth the risk.
Cell phones are the worst for the "warp" and erratic nuances coming through the ear piece, though it depends on so much so sometimes these call might be okay. FIOS can have some of the same irregularities, as I hear from a brother's phone when he calls.
Even portable phones linked to a land line can warp if the battery inside is worn down (yes, there is one and yes, it has to be replaced from time to time) . . . or the distance from the base unit.
For those with WiFi maybe just for computer use or streaming, that can be turned off at the power sources at night and the land line phone remains on. -
Posted by Christopher J (Member # 46401) on :
quote:Originally posted by Keebler: - For anyone with hyperacusis who still has their regular land line phone, I suggest keeping it. Yes, it's more expensive to have this arrangement but cheaper than the irritation or even damage that can occur with other options.
Certain sounds with fiber optic lines can be similar to cell phones with their warps, sudden little burps of air (it seems) or of volume or energy to the ears in star wars sort of way.
Be sure - if a cell phone is used - to always stay as far from it as possible unless actually talking on it. Talk, then move away. Especially keep it out of bedroom as even if not on, the signals can interfer with heart rhythm and brain during sleep.
While I still have my land line, even talking to others with FIOS can really hurt my ears, cause poor communication and hamper chance for real conversation / relationship . . .
but - for some who might also have sound triggered seizures, it's not worth the risk.
Cell phones are the worst for the "warp" and erratic nuances coming through the ear piece, though it depends on so much so sometimes these call might be okay. FIOS can have some of the same irregularities, as I hear from a brother's phone when he calls.
Even portable phones linked to a land line can warp if the battery inside is worn down (yes, there is one and yes, it has to be replaced from time to time) . . . or the distance from the base unit.
For those with WiFi maybe just for computer use or streaming, that can be turned off at the power sources at night and the land line phone remains on. -
I'm not even going to get into the technical aspects of all your sound observations, but sufficd it to say that it's a whole lot of unsupported conclusions from auditory observations. The 'star wars' sound isnt some signal from the death star that will warp your brain ;-) It is simply the digital to analog codecs used. All phone calls these days are routed digitally on the long haul whether or not you use a landline. And btw your copper based land lines to the home wont be available in 5 years, so I recommend you get used to other options. Copper is no longer an efficient means of transporting communications.
[ 03-22-2018, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: sixgoofykids ]
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Christopher J
How dare you accuse me of " a whole lot of unsupported and (frankly) crazy conclusions from auditory observations . . . "
Most with hyperacusis have had to take this from - oh, maybe dozens of ignorant doctors before finding a true LL MD / neurotologist who turned to the medical facts to explain all this.
Actually, you are the one who is uneducated & in this matter. And why must you bully? It is just mean. Even if you are uneducated in this matter, it's just mean.
Your personal attack is unwarranted and ugly. You need not call anyone "crazy" to cover your not yet being educated in any subject.
Hyperacusis is very much misunderstood.
Please learn more because it's important to know that it has nothing to do with "crazy" except for being called that by mean bullies! #*#*#. (interpret that how ever your ears might).
Yet, if you are interested in learning more about this - maybe someone you know might need this detail at some time -- even if you clearly are all fine and dandy with your ears . . .
"star wars" and "warp" were just my own descriptors to try explain the kinds of variations of sounds - in a soundTRACK sort of way. What the ears hear - and FEEL - when the ears & hearing centers of the brain are compromised with hyperacusis, which can be frequent with lyme.
Obviously, my casual attempt at describing it failed and we are talking about very different things and you may not at all have had any degree of hyperacusis.
You may never need to take this into account. But others surely do.
So, for those who do deal with it, sometimes even the slightest electronic / digital shifts can cause real pain and beyond. The quality of the sound to the ears in electronic / digital is very different - and most perceivable and even painful to those who have the degree of hyperacusis as I. And I'm not alone in this.
In some cases, the slightest shift in electronic / digital tone can literally send my body flying across the room and into a seizure. And this is not so unheard of (some articles go into greater detail in the links below).
To better understand what some with lyme also deal with regarding the inner / middle ear safety issues:
Topic: TINNITUS: Ringing Between The Ears; Vestibular, Balance, Hearing with compiled links -
including HYPERACUSIS & and sound triggered seizures
What's going on, when does irritation become danger - and what helps? -
Posted by Bartenderbonnie (Member # 49177) on :
Christopher J
I feel no pleasure in having to post this to you.
Why do you constantly disrespect Lymenet members ?
You have shown utter contempt and rudeness towards Tincup.
You have accused Brussels of mental instability for posting bizarre posts.
And now you show ZERO common courtesy towards Keebler.
What you lack, dear man, is a lack of manners. Manners is a way a person acts towards one another.
I ask, pretty, pretty, please, that here on out, if you could show a more civilized form of communication when your opinion differs from another.
A true gentleman Posted by bcb1200 (Member # 25745) on :
Getting back on topic...
FIOS or Cable Internet providers sometimes give you their routers to use for Wifi. BUt I have never used them for wifi. I use them for wired routers and turn their wifi off. This can easily be done for FIOS and most cable companies.
If I want to use Wifi I have my own wifi router that I connect to the FIOS router via cable. Then I can turn it on and off as much as I want. I used to have it on a timer to turn off at night. This would keep the FIOS wired router on so the TV guide works, etc. But the FIOS radio is always set to OFF.
You can also hard wire your home. THere are companies who will pull ethernet to various rooms. Wired always works better than wireless. You do have to get the $15 adaptor for macs, but they work great.
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
Hi Rumi,
We have FIOS for internet/phone, have for years. We had a router break and need replacing maybe a year ago, not too too long, and were still able to get one where we use it just wired. It is capable of wireless, but there is a setting you can change via the internet to turn the wireless aspect on and off. The installer showed us how, not too hard, and of course we recorded it, since sometimes somehow it gets back on wireless (maybe once every few years, not too frequent), so we flip the switch back off again.
So all that can be done with some persistence with customer service.
We live in a house and paid an electrician to wire connect the FIOS in different rooms ... so the router is just in one room, but with the wires the other rooms are connected, then it is just short wires right near the wall, wherever you really use the computer, is all you need to have wires. So that can be done too ... at least if you control the building ... if you are in an apartment, then of course that can unfortunately limit your ability to get that done.
The other issue with the apt., as you say, is all the others who may have wireless. My thoughts on this are simply that you do what you can do ... but not adding wireless signals by your own use is going to be the most important, if you use it enough ... because the signal degrades exponentially with distance ... so those neighbors will be zapping you with weaker signals than you are zapping yourself with.
To block the neighbors, though, there are things you can do to block them, with enough effort and money, unfortunately, is the case with all of this. You might first measure when all your devices are off, at various times, to see where the worst is coming from regarding the neighbors, then you could install protection on the walls in those areas between your neighbors and you.
Some wall protection deflects signals and some absorbs it, and in a complex apt. where you have limited control and understanding, probably the absorbing style sheets are best ... as guessing where/how to add deflectors is likely a losing game of pinball. I bought mine some years ago from lessemf.com.
These are my initial thoughts on reading your current situation. Let me know if I can help further.
Posted by CarolMartin (Member # 52217) on :
Your post grabbed my attention. I had no clue that WiFi outer can somehow even remotely affect our health.
Posted by MissWan (Member # 52706) on :
I completely understand your concerns about EMF radiation from Wi-Fi and internet providers. It's a difficult issue to navigate, especially when it comes to finding a reliable and safe option for internet access.
I recently discovered emf blocking material, such as special curtains and fabrics. It might be worth looking into these options to help reduce your exposure to EMF radiation from your neighbors' Wi-Fi and other sources.
I haven't had any personal experience with FIOS or cable internet, but I have heard that FIOS is generally considered to be faster and more reliable than cable internet. However, as you mentioned, the increased signal strength could potentially pose health risks.
Overall, I think it's important to do what you can to reduce your exposure to EMF radiation while also finding a practical and reliable internet solution for your needs. It's a tricky balance, but I hope you're able to find a solution that works for you.
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