Has anyone come across any info on this? I have searched and only found that it can (or any sleep drug) can shorten your life.
My Dr. is cutting me off, citing this fact. I believe it is new regulation... She has insisted I see a sleep specialist. Which I have, but not done the study yet. But I am panicking about this. Ambien has changed my life. I have so much less pain, I'm nicer., I'm eating better and even exercising. I have one month left. I'm trying to taper my dose.
Sleep specialist is 99% sure I have sleep apnea, due to a tongue bigger than my lower teeth. My DH has never heard me gasp awake and he says I only snore when I have a cold. He also determined I am a worrier.
I have had insomnia (watching every hour on the clock insomnia since I was a child) 4 days in a row finally sleep from exhaustion, and then it all starts again. Ambien has been the only thing that has stopped this... Valium never worked, flexeril didn't work.,
I can't imagine being able to sleep hooked up to a a machine...
Any thoughts? I've been taking ambien for about 7 years... I never go up on my dose... If it stops working I just stop taking it for a few days (and don't sleep) and then it starts working again.... I just feel this is a wonder drug for me.
I'm very curious if someone can find any documentation of woman dying in their sleep.
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
Google "Can women die in their sleep from ambien" There are several articles from different sources that have info.
Of particular interest is the young man who improved on ambien after awakening from a coma. Seems that it has a paradoxical effect on some people and makes them more alert.
I would print this out and show it to your doctor. Sounds like the same thing with Ritalin that is an amphetamine , but has the opposite effect on some people calming them down.
Good Luck.
Gael
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
I'm going to be mad if my doctor takes it away. I'm like you, can't sleep otherwise. I know I don't have sleep apnea either.
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
Gail, could you post that link? I couldn't find it. I also haven't found any article that says women are dying in their sleep... Just risk of dying younger. (I don't want to die young, but I would if I don't sleep... I don't know how I did it all those years)
Posted by Catgirl (Member # 31149) on :
It is so important that people get their sleep. Sleep is how the body is able to heal--without it, people go downhill.
There are always side effects from every single med. These are things to carefully consider, but you also have to consider that without the sleep you've acquired since being on it, you could have been way worse by now.
Ambien is a patch. It covers up the real issue of why you can't sleep, and actually gives you sleep. It's quick and easy and works for some people, so docs dole it out. Not anymore though. Docs are now required to monitor the patient like never before for sleep meds.
This is why a lot of docs just don't want to prescribe it anymore. They don't have the time to monitor the patient. That and the shorten your life issue, and maybe more things we aren't privy to (women dying in their sleep?), hence the monitoring.
I couldn't take ambien. I never hit rem sleep and felt worse, so I made my own concoctions (melatonin, etc). The heart of my insomnia is a co infection and adrenal issue anyway, so these are what I focus on, and when I do I sleep. Surprisingly, reducing emf exposure has helped too.
I say follow your gut.
Posted by surprise (Member # 34987) on :
Kudz! Hope you are well.
Lunesta is now available generic. Has none of these stories attached to it. Ask for Lunesta.
Posted by soccermama (Member # 35101) on :
Kudzu, I know how you feel. Insomnia has been a BIG symptom for me. It started slowly and kept getting worse.
Tried all kinds of drugs which would work for a while then, stop working.
Most drugs like ambien and lunesta would give me headaches.
Had a sleep study done and waiting on results. If you are having sleep apnea, there are mouth pieces that can be worn.
They are dental devices which are custom-made mouthpieces that help position the lower jaw and tongue during sleep.
Ask your doctor about the new sleep med that is out. This med works differently because it focuses on shutting off the wakefulness hormone. It does not produce the hangover effect and you get better quality of sleep.
Suzy Cohen mentioned it in one of her articles but I can't seem to find it.
Lunesta did not work for me.
Posted by droid1226 (Member # 34930) on :
This is with any sleeping pill. My dad dropped from one unisom, got life flighted and revived by the paddles. One Unisom mixed with synthroid dropped his bpm to 22.
That's an OTC drug. It's not just ambien. He was 48 at the time. He takes this combo every night. Just random.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
Topic: MAGNESIUM - LINKS sets -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Kudzuslipper,
This may be - in part - some of the detail to which your doctor was referring. I think BMJ refers to British Medical Journal (so seeing that direct source would be best).
Excerpt:
". . . Last year, a study in the journal BMJ Open showed an association between taking 18 or fewer sleeping pills a year -- particularly zolpidem in the drug temazepam (Restoril) -- and having a 3.5 times higher death risk. . . ."
Zolpidem, Also Known As Ambien, Linked With Sharp Increase In ER Visits, Study Finds
No author listed - Huffington Post - 05/02/2013
excerpts:
Visits to the emergency department linked with the sleeping pill zolpidem, commonly known by the brand name Ambien, have increased by nearly 220 percent over a five-year period, according to a new report.
The report, from the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, shows that there were 19,487 zolpidem-related visits to the emergency department across the U.S. in 2010, up from 6,111 in 2005.
Zolpidem-linked emergency department visits increased by 274 percent for women between 2005 and 2010, and 144 percent for men.
Half of the visits in 2010 were caused by taking zolpidem in addition to another kind of drug, with 37 percent of the visits involving taking zolpidem in addition to a central nervous system-depressing drug.
SAMHSA reported that taking zolpidem with other drugs can be dangerous because it makes the sedative effects of the pill even more powerful.
Zolpidem is FDA-approved to treat (not cure!) insomnia, but side effects include parasomnias (like sleepwalking), daytime drowsiness, hallucinations and dizziness.
Earlier this year, the FDA recommended drugmakers to lower dosages of zolpidem because of the morning drowsiness effects of the drug.
"All sleep drugs have the potential to cause this . . . " -
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
Thanks everyone for the very thoughtful response.
I do know ambien is a crutch... But it is better than the alternative. I am not exaggerating when I say, I have had hardcore insomnia since my very early teens... I'm now in my 50's. Every once in a while, I get an amazing nights sleep, where I wake up feeling refreshed and energized...And I realize how, even with ambien I am not getting restorative sleep. But I function much better with it.
None of my drs seem interested in talking about adrenals.... I'm so tired of hunting for answers.
I recently went to a chiropractor, who said my sympathetic nervous system is out of whack... Basically, I don't have one. (I'm all fight or flight) He saw this by looking at my eyes... Following a red and white piece of fabric... And showed me how to deep breath... It just felt silly to me... Waste of money... I was hoping he would re-allign me.
Well, sleep study is scheduled. Maybe they'll find something helpful.
Still have not found an article saying woman are dying in their sleep (as catgirl says maybe we're not privy)
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Kudzuslipper,
I'm really sorry that something that has worked well for you for years is no longer available. As you likely see, I'm the opposite of a fan for ambien. Still, I know that if this has worked for you and it's gone, that creates havoc and the need to scramble for "what else & how else?"
I do wonder why the chemistry of ambien is different for various people. I know how it nearly killed me but others do fine. There may be more to this in that your doctor is considering all things and really is concerned about the safety of this.
For many years, probably nearly 20 years ago, I took Seldane - the only Rx that ever really worked against terrible sinus trouble. Then they took it off the market, citing health risks. I did not believe them and kept taking for a year or so from the stash I'd been able to collect.
Only this past year was I able to find exactly why Seldane was so abruptly yanked off the market and the details are horrifying for the heart. I may have suffered damage but there is no way to know. At least I didn't die like some others.
A huge problem with any web search is that when we search, we don't find the truth. So many web URLs have been purchased by the companies of many drugs and so we get all those URLs, not so much the academic studies or thoughtful essays of those who discuss such drugs.
I'm sorry that I can't circle back to where I thought I was going with this - but there are other ways, still, that may really help solve the problem. I have my doubts, though
about that sleep specialist. I'm not impressed with two things he said:
1. "sleep apnea, due to a tongue bigger than my lower teeth" (well, did he discuss WHY? and consider inflammation? My guess is he did not.)
2. "He also determined I am a worrier." (this really shows a bad attitude and rush to judgment on his part, stigmatizing you from the get-go.)
Can you find a better sleep specialist? One who is better educated with a broader understanding? -
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
Kudz, I absolutely feel you. I have had hardcore insomnia for decades. My mother has had it her whole life.
Call it Bart, call it post Lyme, call it whatever, but I have spent literally thousands of dollars on every single natural supplement known to man.
Do I like/ feel good taking a sleeping pill? No, of course not, and I try not to spiral down into what serious issue must be broken in me/ doomed for the future.
Right here, right now, I have to sleep at night (and even with Lunesta it's not perfect). My current Dr. who prescribes it to me: I looked in his eyes, was emphatic, and honest. He got me.
We are not alone. Lots more like us- big market. Doesn't make it right, but I can't beat myself up over this. And no, I don't have sleep apnea.
Hope you find a Dr. to help--
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
I do get what you are saying Keebler. I do believe my dr. does have my best interest at heart (and her license) I believe she is covering her bases by sending me to a sleep specialist.
good news is, my insurance will pay for a full fledged sleep study (not that I think i will sleep in a sleep lab without my hubby or my dogs, hooked up to a bunch of machines, but at least I get to take my blessed ambien)
he thought my tongue is normal, my mouth is too small due to braces. I do feel these are pat answers. my hope is that they find I don't have sleep apnea and then it becomes less dangerous to prescribe the ambien... I think the thinking is you are too imobilized by the hypnotic drug not to wake up when you are gasping for air... but I wake up to go to the bathroom and then fall right back to sleep.
"worrier?" no Sh** Sherlock is what my first thought was...LOL. don't have to have a PHD to figure that out. but he is right. And actually, sleeping and ambien has helped me to worry less.
Oh Surprise... that is exactly how I feel... It's working, I don't want to mess with it. I couldn't stand Lunesta. it didn't work as well... and that taste? and not just at night... constantly! do you get that taste? like skunk living in your mouth and sinuses?
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
Gave you two alternatives....
Niacinamide or pregabalin - read the 2012 pubmed summary!
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
thanks for the links Marnie!
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
You're welcome.
Sleep tight..don't let the...
which reminds me...did you see the amazing picture of the guy who was seriously bitten by bed bugs in a movie theater that was subsequently closed?
Half of the visits in 2010 were caused by taking zolpidem in addition to another kind of drug, with 37 percent of the visits involving taking zolpidem in addition to a central nervous system-depressing drug.
- Exactly
Posted by droid1226 (Member # 34930) on :
Seroquel works amazing. It's so strong and i can't handle a full dose 25mg, i do like 2-4mg which can knock me out.
Benzo's have a terrible stigma, for good reason but they do help sleep. I'm still not convinced Ambien isn't one either. Idc what evidence someone shows me. everyone in medicine seems to interpret facts/evidence their own way. so i'm just gonna say Ambien might be a benzo.
I do think seroquel works best, for me......but idk what long term effects it may have on the brain.
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
Ambien benefits those who were exposed to agent orange.
Look closely at:
dioxin, an organochlorine contaminant of the Agent Orange...
Monsanto has done none of us favors with its products, IMO.
In vitro exposure of human CD34+ cells to ***TCDD***
HEADS UP..."induced modulation in gene expression involving the GABAergic pathway,"
which may be associated with altered synaptic transmission, visual perception, and other neurologic conditions (Fracchiolla et al., 2011).
The two active ingredients in the Agent Orange herbicide combination were equal amounts of 2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4-D) and 2,4,5-trichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4,5-T),
which contained traces of 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin (TCDD).
[ 08-19-2014, 08:25 PM: Message edited by: Marnie ]
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
wow....I tried both lunesta and ambien. I cut the pill in half. my husband said I was talking loudly and kicking around like crazy. he woke me up and my heart rate was over 130.
whew..never tried them again.
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
Marnie, so that's saying agent orange changes your GABA receptors? What if I just took GABA? In my 30's when I first started dealing with what was then called fibro... I took one dose of GABA with a magnesium supplement.... I took at lunch and I was driving somewhere when it hit! Omg, I felt like I took 3 flexeril. I had to pull over, get a coffee, I was afraid to drive.
This is what infuriates me.... There are many "bad" drugs I refuse to take. Flexeril, Percocet, Valium, NSAIDs, cause they make me feel worse. (Flexeril a muscle relaxer makes my muscles burn... Go figure). Heck, antibiotics like Cipro and flagyl have more impact on your CNS.
It seems, for me, ambien is a mild drug that works at night and as long as I actually sleep I have no grogginess . If it does not work and I don't sleep, I feel extra foggy in the am.
Droid, I would think seroquel is much scarier than ambien.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
And yes...my husband is on propranolol (beta blocker) for tremors. It depletes CoQ10...
Those are not the only 2 Rx's...it is very difficult to rebalance the neurotransmitters!
Google this: TCDD mitochondrial dysfunction
Posted by surprise (Member # 34987) on :
How about:
'Woman dies with 3 kids in the car, ran car off road, lack of sleep'.
'Woman gets divorced drove husband mad with *****iness from lack of sleep'
'Woman can't get to food store or produce meals for family: lack of sleep, can't get off couch in her zombie state'
I'm not making light of possible side affects of Ambien. But can anyone here say they are 100% prescription free? Because EVERY prescription has a possible side affect.
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
Surprise.... LIKE!
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Yep .. LIKE!!
Kudzu .. Flexeril (and many other drugs) depletes magnesium, so it is no wonder that it made your muscles burn.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- It's probably been about 17 years since I gave up on all sleep meds or OTC sleep aids. It took a while but I know I'll never go back.
Other things, nutrients mostly and some herbs seem to give my body what it needs to allow sleep. I wish I had know long before.
I know everyone's body works differently - and tolerances vary but it is important to know that it's possible to find a balance and not have the rotating side effects or ups and downs from either prescription or OTC sleep aids to have to wrestle with.
It took a long while yet I found that with nutrients, and unplugging all electronics - even getting rid of that glowing clock - and getting room darkening curtains, etc. There are so many variables. -
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
Keebs. I am so proud and in awe that you've done that.
I don't think I'm there. But one day, it's good to know its possible.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
True, if it's adrenals, the right nutrients can help the body heal. I found that staying away from foods high in histamine has helped me obtain more restful sleep.
Histamine makes you rev up if you are sensitive to it.
Posted by surprise (Member # 34987) on :
I am currently waiting for some new adrenal supplements to arrive-
I went through some stress in July (visiting family member) and I was taken aback how much it took me down/ completely exhausted/ couldn't deal with it---
hoping for more healing w/ the adrenal supplements.
Posted by droid1226 (Member # 34930) on :
I have to add. Seroquel makes you hungry(they both sorta do) but leaves you with a terrible hangover. Ambien, zero hangover.
Haha. We aren't meant to take these drugs.
Posted by GretaM (Member # 40917) on :
Aww man. My script just ran out for the zolpidem. Darn it!
I know waht you mean Kudzu...
Pre lyme I was taking half a unisom, an ativan, one zopiclone, and 10mg Elavil to get sleepy...
When I told my doc this at the time...I think the top of her head floated off and hit the ceiling.
Anyways, now I'm down to 5mg zolpidem (Sublinox) and 3mg melatonin.
Reallu upset to hear about the zolpidem getting that many warnings.
I know my doc mentioned women metabolize it differently, so a 10mg dose to a male, is equivelent to a 5mg dose to a female.
Other than that-didn't realize it was such a risky drug.
However, murder via days of insomnia and lingering bartonella infection, is also a risk factor for death. Haha.
I'll take my risk with the zolpidem...
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
The difference in response to Ambien might involve how fast (genetically driven) a person can process the drugs...fast metabolizers versus slow.
As well as the existence of underlying hepatic (liver) impairment - making a bad situation worse:
Marnie, I understood the first one... but what does this mean...practically? what do you have to do?
"An absence of iNKT cells caused B. burgdorferi to leave the blood and enter the joints more effectively. B. burgdorferi that escaped Kupffer cells entered the liver parenchyma and survived despite Ito cell responses. Kupffer cell–iNKT cell interactions induced a key intravascular immune response that diminished the dissemination of B. burgdorferi."
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
"B. burgdorferi that escaped Kupffer cells entered the liver parenchyma and survived "
Google: berberine liver
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
ha. riddle me this batman! I tried berberine. I got an allergic reaction. nose running and itchy eyes within a 1/2 hour every time I tried it. same response to milk thistle.
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
What form of berberine - sulfate or HCL? Dosage, amt., timing?
My daughter took 6, not 3, VCO capsules to rid Candida =
Histamine response. Allergic response.
Had to take Benadryl to counter.
She said, "Mom, I'm allergic to virgin coconut oil."
I said, "No, you just knocked off too much Candida too fast."
Histamine response = die off reaction possible? Maybe:
P.S. Romanian docs cured lyme (early onset) using IV abx AND
Anti-inflammatory, ANTI-HISTAMINE, HMG CoA reductase inhibitor...
Mg.
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
Well... The good news is my co pay for this horrible experience will be $0.00! So all I have to deal with is being in a creepy office park... With only 2 other people in the building at night. Hooked up to wires... Being video taped and watched...
They probably know no one would do it if it were $500 co pay like a colonoscopy...
Insurance is so out of whack.
Posted by Dogsandcats (Member # 28544) on :
Kudz I did the fun sleep study. It was winter so I went in a t shirt and sweats. There was another man in the same section I was, so I was glad I didn't have my nightie on! Mine was in a business center, very creepy walking around at night.
They hooked me up to a million wires and put me into the Motel 6 bedroom. I did take a sleep aid. Fell asleep and a voice comes over the speaker in the room (she sounded like Mary Poppins) and told me to turn left. Fall asleep and Mary wakes me up and puts a mask on me. Back to sleep. Mary says turn over. Mary changes mask. At about 4:30 Mary tells me I am done, go home.
Stumble out, really shouldn't have been driving, and went home.
Sorry this is so long....
Got my Cpap machine. This was a while back when they had few choices and the mask made me feel like Darth Vader's daughter. The next thing- no air- God has come to take me home. Gasp gasp....I reach for the light switch.... The cat had been batting at the hose and put holes in it so I wasn't getting any air. Every time I moved the tube waved back and forth in the air and provided a delightful toy for him.
Tried one more mask and just couldn't get used to it. People who use them swear they have changed their lives, so give it all you can.
I snored like a truck driver at time of this story. My sons had a great time imitating me. My husband felt blessed he is pretty much deaf. This is when I was in the midst of Lyme treating.
I have gained weight since this (sad music) and I don't snore now unless I am overtired. Go figure.
Lack of sleep is a form of torture, if you need something, take it. IMHO.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Cool story, Dogs. The cat was having too much fun!
In my husband's hometown, their sleep clinic is in a little house near the hospital. It's rather cute.
Posted by surprise (Member # 34987) on :
dogsandcats, that was the best story ever, lol.
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
dogs and cats... thank you for sharing! I concur best story ever!!!! I am picturing every part of it. Especially little furball staying up all night playing your air tube. But I suspect you are being kind calling your sleep tech Mary Poppins.... I am envisioning Nurse Ratchet from One Flew Over the Cukoo's Nest.
I have been worried about what to wear, as I sleep in a slip... think it will be tee shirt and stretch pants...
this place sounds exactly the same. it is a pain care and sleep center in the middle of a big huge office park in an industrial area... when I was there (during the day) they were very busy. mostly the pain care side... but apparently the "office" I was seen in... has a murphy bed that comes down and that is where the sleep study is done. The woman I spoke to was very proud that there was italian art on the walls... (can't say I even noticed) there will be one other woman being studied at the same time ( I assume in a different room.) I am hoping the building has a security guard.
Did I mention I am doing this on september 10th? I have a real hard time with 9/11 having relived it so many times for work... and now with the world all in flames... well you get my irrational fears...
did I also mention that I sleep on a tempurpedic? can't imagine the murphy bed is gonna be too comfortable...god I hope the sheets are clean.
oh well, it is confirmed I get to take everything I normally take for the sleep study... so I will take my ambien, along with probiotics and magnesium and tylenol which all do help induce sleepiness...
so Dogs and Cats... after all that... back to everything as usual? no CPAP? no mouth gaurd? how long ago was that? can I ask if you take anything to help you sleep?
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
Tempurpedic mattress? Oh, YEA...WONDERFUL - esp. the cloud!
Very costly, but worth every penny, IMO. We have 2...ours and our son's are both tempurpedic.
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
So Marnie, what is the treatment if they do discover those?
Oh yes... Tempurpedic is 2nd only to my "precious" sleep meds. Lol.
I know there's talk about it's off gassing... It it did smell horrible for three months... But I would never have a real mattress again.
Posted by surprise (Member # 34987) on :
I also have a tempurpedic mattress- lol, all the insomniacs fell for it. It never smelled or off gassed. Ear plugs, and always before DH gets to bed-
nope.
Still end up on the couch for 1/2 the night. Sleep solid 4-5 hours w/ Lunesta, then up. Then couch for lite dozing. Lite sleep w/ not good dreams and crook in my neck from couch.
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
Surprise, sorry you end up on the couch with a crook in your neck... What a crazy complex if problems we all have.
Posted by surprise (Member # 34987) on :
Eh, I'm learning to lie on my back on the couch, then it's better. Old habits die hard in old people.
I'll tell you, if I finally, truly AM sleeping, God help the person who wakes me up.
Posted by surprise (Member # 34987) on :
By the way, just starting a new supplement at night, Cortisol Calm. Still trying! And still healing.
Posted by Dogsandcats (Member # 28544) on :
It was about 5-6 years ago.....I threw out the machine.
Between the cat playing with my air, the machine leaking on the night stand, feeling like Darth's kid, the sore spots on my
nose where the little "pads" as they call them- they are nose plugs....and the best....the "joker" smile ( indent) left across my cheeks from the straps- which looked suspicious on my face as I went into work. Looked like I was wearing one of those straps they offer on tv at 3am- promising to lift my waddle and cheek flab, causing me to look 30 years younger.
I wear a mouth guard cause I grind my teeth. My life is so serene can't imagine why I would grind......
But- they have new masks, new machines and I am a certified WUSS when it comes to my creature comforts. So take my sarcasm and remember many peoples swear this has changed their lives! One man takes a generator camping so he can wear his mask!
Yes she sounded like Mary Poppins. Very prim and proper, and all that.
Don't drink a lot of water that day. After they hook your head and body up to the "Frankenstein" wires and if you are lucky to have the mask on, going potty - well- isn't fun. All you need to do is drag one foot behind and throw in the mummy walk too.
How could a place with beautiful art and a Murphy bed not have clean sheets?
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
""""How could a place with beautiful art and a Murphy bed not have clean sheets?""""
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
3 days til the worst night of my life!
Posted by Judie (Member # 38323) on :
Gosh, that's terrible. I hope you can find another source!
Posted by Ellen101 (Member # 35432) on :
Kudzu how did your test go? Hope it went ok! I know this is something I need to consider doing as well. My sleep problem is strange. I wake every 2 hrs like clock work. I need to pee and have something to eat.
This started many years ago in my late 20's. At the time they thought it was low blood sugar. I did a glucose tolerance test and the results showed hypoglycemia.
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
my test is wednesday Ellen. I am freaking out!
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Kudz, I weaned off sleep meds, but got a longer time to do it than you did. I take 5HTP (l tryptophan doesn't work as well for me, neither does melatonin). Getting my adrenals healed helped my sleep most of all.
Valerian root is good for relaxing.
We did lose a previous board member (Clarissa) a couple weeks ago, one who was well, due to sleep meds. Her tox screen isn't back yet so I don't know what she took, but she died in her sleep after taking sleep meds.
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
Thanks for the suggestions Six.
I survived the ordeal. I wish I could post my wired up selfie!
Dogs and cats my. "Voice " did not sound like Mary Poppins or nurse Ratchet. She was actually very nice. The Murphy bed was not too bad... Sheets were clean... And I was not too freaked out.
Hopefully there will be some useful info. Now that I've done it, my pcp will dole out a script at a time as I taper and until I get usable info for moving forward.
I will say, I have tapered down to 5 mg from 7.5 and I am not sleeping as long... But my word loss seems to be better.
I also have to say, I believe the poco ionic magnesium ReMag that Tutu often mentions seems to be making a huge difference in sleep and with pain.
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
So... I stop breathing 22 times am hour. It is considered moderate sleep apnea. They want to fit me with a cpap mask. I know I won't wear it. I will talk with them about a mouth guard. Tbc.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Some of the masks are not so bad. Give it a whirl!!
Say... Do you guys really say "crook" in my neck or is that your auto-correct talking? Two of you said the same thing, so I'm thinking I must be weird.
I always said "crick" in my neck. Just wondering. Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
Hey there... me again. so I get my mask on thursday. In the mean time I am trying to reduce my ambien. I am down to 1/3 or 1/2 a 5mg (I was taking 2/3rds of a 10mg)
I am falling asleep but not staying asleep and even on the few nights I do stay asleep I am so very tired during the day.
I also have an annoying eye twitch.
are these withdrawal symptoms?
think it could be cause my 5mg pills are from a different manufacturer?
oh and tutu--- I believe I say crick too, which I am also experiencing from trying to sleep on my side instead of my back.
what a mild annoying nightmare this all is... not as much of a nightmare as a lyme or bart herx...
Posted by surprise (Member # 34987) on :
Hang in there Kudz- I am really tired, too. Totally get it. Please let us know how the mask is- good thoughts it brings deep restorative sleep---
Crook in neck here.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
I DID NOT KNOW WE LOST CLARISSA! How awful! I've chatted with her in the past. So sorry to hear!!!
kudzu... Not sure about the twitching. I know you can get it from lack of sleep, but might be withdrawal. Try easing off of it more slowly.
Have you tried melatonin?
Bunch of "crooks!" Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lymetoo: I DID NOT KNOW WE LOST CLARISSA! How awful! I've chatted with her in the past. So sorry to hear!!!
Yes, really sad. I didn't start a thread because she hasn't been active since she got better about four years ago and at that point she mostly separated from the Lyme community.
I don't know what she took, but I know the night before she died she had trouble sleeping. There's no reason to suspect suicide .... but she did take some kind of medicine to sleep the next night and never woke up.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I weaned off sleep meds over 6 months. I would reduce one night, then normal amount the next until I could handle reduced every night. Then I'd reduce (or eliminate) every other night, etc. Until I was off them.
I take 5HTP at night now. Just a half dose. L Tryptophan is similar but didn't work as well for me and was harder to find.
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
I had to go back and see what was posted about Clarissa. I am so sorry to read that. it is sad and scary.
[ 09-25-2014, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: Kudzuslipper ]
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
Could it be that woman are dying in their sleep due to generics?
I couldn't find anything on google. But this lower dose generic zolpidem is not at all good for me. First off, it feels stronger, I fall asleep faster and it's a scary dead sleep. Secondly, I wake up exhausted. And I'm feeling all edgy. And my eye is twitching.
I was encouraged to take the whole pill (still less than what I was taking) while getting used to the cpap. I have spent the entire day today in and out of sleep.
Which makes me think... Have these problems popped up because there are more and more generics out there?
I had never, ever felt this way before. I was taking a generic 10, but the 5's are a different manufacturer. I am shocked at the difference between brands.
Why couldn't they just leave me alone?
Posted by surprise (Member # 34987) on :
You are not crazy, there can be a difference between generics, and some people do feel it:
I don't know, wish I could help you. How's the mask? If you are at the end of the road, a new Dr. who will prescribe could be warranted.
Frankly, right or wrong, many, many folks are using a prescribed sleep aid.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
kudzu .. It's not that one that you take under your tongue, is it?? That one has tons of fillers and additives. Awful stuff!
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
No. It's a regular pill tutu.
Surprise, that's a scary article. 2 nights on the mask. Irst night I didn't sleep a wink (the machine even told me no sleep) Last night (in the evil generic) I slept 5.5 hours with .7 events. I then took it off. We'll try a full night tonight.
The sleep doctor gave me 3 months of ambien... I just can't take the brand I had been taking cause the 5mg is a red pill... I'm allergic to red dye.
Posted by surprise (Member # 34987) on :
Can you wash off the dye? I've heard of Moms doing that--
Well, if you tell me the mask gets you deep, restored, no pill sleep in the upcoming weeks, I'm in :-)
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
GACK!! Dyes are horrible!! That will cause histamine levels to rise and that in turn will keep you awake.
Call your doctor to get it changed to another generic. I know some brands are actually white.
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
So now I'm procrastinating going up to bed. I'm petrified of the mask and the pill.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
.. Sleep well, my friend!
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
nope...not a chance of that. the machine said I used the mask for an hour and a half... but didn't sleep. then I got a migraine... so that was my night.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
UGH... how awful! You took the Ambien?
Have you tried CALM magnesium?
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
I have not tried the CALM Tutu. but taking the re-mag. my muscles feel great! I was feeling really great all over-- until they started to mess with me!!!!
I did take a half of ambien -- but as a test used the one's left over from the good brand... of course it didn't work cause it is milder and I am now hooked on the evil brand.
I may just go cold turkey-- and when I can't function anymore go on disability...
for anyone looking for info on Gaba and L-Theanine... found this article...
"lower dose generic zolpidem is not at all good for me"
That was my experience. It was like taking a completely different medication.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
I'm so glad the ReMag is working for your muscles! Have you tried taking some at bedtime? I always do.
Have you called your doctor to ask for the other Ambien? You can even get them to over-ride the generic. They can put in a request to your insurance company.
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
Yes I do take the remag at night. It does help... I believe it's why I was able to go down in dose.
I feel like right now, I have to lay off asking for anything ambien related for a while... Be a good, compliant patient and give everything a chance... So I can say I really tried.
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
Ok... Now I think their plan is to make me so miserable that not sleeping very well seems like a treat.
Last night no pills. No machine. I spent a lot of time lying there with my eyes shut... But I must of slept cause I woke up pretty peppy.
Posted by groovy2 (Member # 6304) on :
Hi all-
I went to a sleep doctor and was given Ambien- made me feel Horrible and I did not sleep-
Ambien scared the hell out of me and stopped taking it after 3 nights-
I had also talked sleep doctor into giving me Valium -
Valium helped me get a good nights sleep- it has been the only thing that has worked -
Sleep doctor decided that I was not abusing Valium and now prescribes it to me --
Another thing that really helps me sleep is having back ground noise -TV -
I made a Youtube channel that is full of interesting science shows - shows play contentiously and it really helps me sleep threw the night-
Boring or news shows dont work- for me it need to be something interesting- I have no Idea why but it works for me-
Posted by Judie (Member # 38323) on :
I finally had my first good night's sleep in ages.
My doc recommended phosphatidylserine before bed. I'm taking it along with glycine and l-theanine.
I use to depend on Ambien, but then insurance stopped paying so I had to find and alternative. It's taken years.
Good luck. I forgot what it was like to sleep.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Sounds like a promising combo, Judie!
Groovy.. glad the Valium is working. Pretty addictive stuff though.
I hate taking things that are hard to get off of .. like my Nexium!! Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
groovy, glad valium is working for you. It makes me drowsy but keeps me in this spin of falling off with a thought and then waking abruptly with the unfinished thought-- even if it isn't a pressing or stressful thought...
Judie, I will be looking up phosphatidylserine. I never heard of it. is it reccommended that it be taken with glycine and l-theanine?
after a month of trying to get down on ambien, with my evil "made in the usa" generic. or even worse afraid to take anything... and a full week and a half of no sleep, migraines and sinus and tooth aches from trying to use the CPAP. My pcp seems more interested in helping me, at least communicate with the sleep dr about ambien. She is all for me getting the brand I was used to and cutting them in half (duh, kind of like I was doing!) but needs the scripts to come from sleep dr. but seemed to be more open to it if I could stay at of below 5mg.
she also, gave me a method of cutting down. 1 week 5 mg. 2 weeks alternating 5mg and 2.5mg. 2 weeks 2.5 mg, 2 weeks or more alternating 2.5 mg and none. until I can do none.
she also suggested I try melatonin-- not sure if that is while cutting down of after-- anyone know?
[ 10-10-2014, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: Kudzuslipper ]
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
I take melatonin all the time .. with Ambien.
Posted by karatelady (Member # 7854) on :
Background noise (like a fan) helps tremendously but I also take Ambien CR which means it lasts 8 hours. Most nights I get a good night's sleep. The secret is, BE IN BED WHEN YOU TAKE IT!
One night I was fooling around cutting mats for my art work after taking the Ambien. Earlier that week I had bought some hair extensions and had each one rolled up on a roller to make them look more real (about 10 of them) and had them in a plastic shopping bag.
That night I stayed up late after taking the Ambien, worked on some artwork and cut some mats. For some reason, I walked into my daughter's room and told her I had some treats for her dogs.
She said, "Mom, it's 2:00 a.m. in the morning!" I told her to look and see what I had for her pups and then proceeded to pull out the rollers each one with a hair extension on it, one by one and showed her the "treats" for her dogs (she has two dogs sleeping with her).
She asked me the next morning if I remembered doing all that and I told her no. I vaguely remember going in her room but that was it.
So, the main thing to remember is: Be in bed when you take your Ambien and you will have a good night's sleep. At least I do.
Sandy
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Sandy,
Even taking ambien in bed . . . Some people later get up out of bed, even grab the car keys and drive, unaware. If you had that experience, I'd be extra cautious as to if you might ever get up out of bed and do various things, unaware.
It's not that rare, actually. There have been several traffic accidents due to this.
NYT - Ambien Drivers -
Posted by Judie (Member # 38323) on :
"Judie, I will be looking up phosphatidylserine. I never heard of it. is it reccommended that it be taken with glycine and l-theanine? "
Gosh, I don't know. The glycine and L-theanine were an ND's recommendation when I got off ambien. This was before Lyme.
Lyme made my sleep go cuckoo. My Lyme doc went over my supplements (suggested glycine, I'm already on it) and suggested adding the phosphatidylserine.
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
- Sadly, the article is about developing drugs to "turn on" or "turn off" - they say they are about understanding better, and that's a good thing but make no mistake, it's all about developing uppers and downers.
Now, this may (more may not) be good for the military but for the general public
- and especially for those ill with things that cause insomnia but go untreated or undertreated (such as stealth infections connected with alzheimer's, since they are targeting that population for this drug developement, too)
or those with dysfunctional body organs/ systems that go unsupported or are stimulated by day with so many food additives, etc. the wrong kinds of lighting, TV techniques that would overstimulate a rock - harsh beeps / buzzes on every appliance and gadget we own even our toothbrushes can wake up our brains, really (and all those beeps are far worse in medical centers) -
- I think it can be very dangerous to keep looking to drug developments to boost us by day and knock us out by night.
This is not just to offer drugs that people want but also drugs that nursing homes can use to control residents, when it come to alzheimer's patients being one of their target groups, you can bet on that.
It's easier and more profitable than treating the cause or support the body with nutrients or by behavior that work with the body's natural rhythm.
There is hope, though in one sentence:
"This study will help determine if these drugs can replace sleep,
“or if there is something so important about sleep that no pharmacological intervention can replace.
What are the links between sleep disruption and cognitive decline?”
I just hope she / they have zero influence from the pharmaceutical industry. Though, that's not likely.
We already understand so much but ignore it. Take out the fluorescent lights in nursing homes and colleges, get people unhooked form TV (especially commercials and especially for action movies) that sends the brain to the moon a million times a day, etc.
We have a lot of the knowledge but other industry is so tied into boosting us every waking moment that we are just sitting ducks when it comes time for sleep. So we settle for a mallet to the head to knock us out, for it's the only way we'll be able to settle down.
I do think it's human nature, though, that when awake to want to be engaged and our TV, our internet is the campfire / storyteller of our time. What would good is to figure out a particular kind of screen or light -- or action "blocker" of sorts to engage at 5 p.m.
Massage teams for every neighborhood? Nighty-night storytellers? Kumbaya clubs? -
[ 11-01-2014, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Tonight: Daylight Saving Time Begins for most of us. Maybe I will reset my clock now and see if that helps prevent that first week zombie sensation that seems more prevalent in the fall than winter.
Those with light boxes: time to dust them off and rev them up at first light, eh?
I hope those researchers really look to light & sound for a lot of their answers about sleep. The wrong kinds of light, the wrong times . . . and too much or irritation noises, even if low key, do derail sleep for everyone.
The liver, too, is a major player that I'd bet all the money I have that they don't even consider. A stressed liver simply will not allow good sleep. And so many drugs really stress the liver so that's why the boomerang effect so often, I think.
I wish some of the top naturopathic researchers would get grant money like this. I'd like to see some on this team, too.
What if that grant money was invested to kill the beeps on medical machines and replace those "alarm" tones with a system that was not alarming to the brains of patients - and care givers alike . . . and a lighting system for care centers that is not going to offset anyone's sleep cycle.
Is it any wonder why care givers might need drugs to calm down? And then to boost up the next day from all this assault?
Helping the most critical care patients and those who work with them with this seems the best investment first. I think we have lost sight of some of the most obvious causes.
The military, too, has some similarities in shift workers, and light, noise and all kind of adrenal overload -- or even fatigue to overcome in the twilight hours while being alert on duty can matter so very much.
Professional drivers and pilots (well, really anyone who drives, too) would also make be excellent group to keep in mind with any of this research. And this is where drugs to turn on and off can be a slippery slope.
We tend to forget the actual real time our brains take to adapt from being engaged to getting to an actual slumber zone.
I wish this kind of research would be about finding answers more so than developing a product, though. My guess is that this grant money is tied to development of marketable end product. It just sounds like that so my radar got tweaked.
Still, of course, we can still learn from what they learn and apply in our way as well. -
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I didn't start a thread because she hasn't been active since she got better about four years ago and at that point she mostly separated from the Lyme community. ![[cussing]](graemlins/cussing.gif)