What do we think of magnesium supplementation? I think a lot of LLMD's agree that magnesium should always be supplemented with Lyme complex. But what if you have Babesia?
There is evidence that magnesium allows babesia to grow. A study showed that magnesium deprived mice actually survived a Babesia infection or had lower parasitaemia, compared to the normally fed mice who all died from the infection: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8022652
Ive started magnesium supplementation a few weeks a go, but im experiencing a decline in health. My blood numbers (kidney function, ferritin) that were getting better before i started supplementing actually got worse again. Despite continuing babesia treatment. Also more fatigue, being house bound again, etc.
I find that taking magnesium is hard for me. After a couple of days i have to stop because nausea, fatigue etc. are all getting too much to handle. I was thinking it could be a detox reaction, but now im starting to doubt that. I know i have some kind of magnesium deficiency, but im not sure how much. RBC levels were within normal range. Ive never actually experienced any benefit from magnesium, only negative effects.
So what to do? Im thinking of dropping magnesium and find out if blood work improves again.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Which one are you taking?
I had babesia and took Mag the whole time I was treating. No negative effect.
Posted by LisaK (Member # 41384) on :
I never noticed a difference. but babs was the first thing I treated for with latest llmd and he says its all gone from me now.
I think, and only my opinion, is that one thing I have learned from this journeyis that a lot of these buggers can give the same symptoms, or possibly that
the sx manifest the same for each other in each person, but different from the next guy.
not sure if that makes sense.
but I notice when I tx specifically for some things, old sx came back.. sx I haven't had in very long time.
I mean how much do they know? nothing. we are babes in the woods as far as how much medecine actually knows.
I just started taking a suppliment to help with constipation and as a cleanse. Its called H2Go by Lane Labs. I read label last night and it is basically a very large dose of mag! that's about it.
I do not feel any worse sx from that, but I will keep taking and see if I do.
so, like I said, I never noticed mag causing more bart, but was supposedly cleared of bart before I ever took any large doses of it
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
That's supposed to be a good mag product for constipation, Lisa.
Posted by S13 (Member # 42830) on :
Im taking ReMag and Magtab-SR.
Posted by GretaM (Member # 40917) on :
Dr. K mentions that oral magnesium supplementation feeds the pathogenic bacteria.
IV magnesium is supposed to go directly to the body.
Transdermal is also supposed to go directly to where the body needs it.
I have babesia but also find magnesium makes me feel better.
What are you doing for detox?
Posted by S13 (Member # 42830) on :
Im not sure if IV magnesium would make any difference for blood parasites such as babesia? Magnesium blood levels will rise with both IV and oral supplementation.
Perhaps it all depends how aggressive your babesia is? I actually get jaundice from babesia, so i assume mine is pretty virulent.
I detox with chlorella. And the magnesium was suppose to help to since it raises glutathione. So it is interesting to also find this post about glutathione and babs: http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/128491 Perhaps its the same mechanism that worsens babesia? This could possibly also explain why coffee enemas make me feel worse.
Posted by S13 (Member # 42830) on :
I got this from another topic:
------------------------------------- Effect of dietary magnesium on the susceptibility of mice to infection by protozoan parasites of the Apicomplexa and Mastigophora phyla.
Maurois P, Delcourt P, Slomianny C, Gueux E, Rayssiguier Y.
INSERM 42, Villeneuve d'Ascq, France.
Severe magnesium deficiency protects mice against infections by Plasmodium Spp. and Babesia hylomysci which invade mature erythrocytes.
By contrast severe magnesium deficiency does not protect against parasite infections by P. berghei which invades reticulocytes, Toxoplasma gondii which invades macrophages, and Trypanosoma brucei which lives free in blood.
The results indicate that the infectious response depends on the severity of magnesium deficiency and on the parasite species.
The decrease in red blood cell magnesium and increased oxidant stress are possible explanations for the protective effect of magnesium deficiency.
PMID: 7547177 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] -------------------------------------
So perhaps the magnesium problem only relates to specific sub-species of Babesia? I have a European variant (not sure which one though), which might be different from US variants.
Perhaps this is an explanation why my Babesia symptoms improved when i was on a PPI (i could never explain it before). Stomach acid is needed for magnesium absorption, so a PPI results in magnesium deficiency.
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
What I noticed from supplementing Magnesium in my wife's case, was an increase in active Lyme. This started shortly after she started taking Magnesium.
The frequency treatments at that time only hit active Lyme and there was a lot more herx reaction and immediate response to the treatment.
I had already eliminated her Babesia so that was not a factor.
Over time, this effect was not detectable as there was less overall Lyme in her system.
I concluded that the additional Magnesium allowed the Lyme to come,out of cyst form much faster. Just observations so it is possible it was a coincidence also.
Dan
Posted by S13 (Member # 42830) on :
I get this feeling that magnesium (and also glutathione, coffee enemas, epsom baths and hyperbaric oxygen for that matter) makes heavy metals come out of the cells and these metals float around in the blood and cause all kinds of problems. Like it makes babesia (and perhaps other infections?) grow, possibly by suppressing the immune system. And the metals themselves cause symptoms like fatigue, restless legs, nausea, poor memory etc.
So perhaps the magnesium is a good thing after all, but it would be better to use it in conjunction with a heavy metal chelating agent? Anyone thoughts on this?
Posted by GretaM (Member # 40917) on :
S13-Very interesting post.
Could very well be. Displacement so to speak. Like how iodine displaces the bad bromine, and visa versa.
Eva Sapi and Fry Labs finds magnesium in biofilms.
Also, heavy metals are often in biofilms.
Interesting.
Posted by BryanRosner1 (Member # 49076) on :
Bringing this back up. To magnesium or not to magnesium?
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- If a body is deficient in a required nutrient, supplementation is vital --
while also addressing directly and assertively the infections.
You might have a red blood cell / RBC INTRACELLUR test done to determine your magnesium levels / needs. A blood serum test will not suffice.
There are various kinds of magnesium. This matters the most, finding the right kind for one's body and one's symptom relief.
And the brand matters or, more specifically, how the magnesium has been processed, etc. Most supplements in big box stores are best avoided as many go through high heat treatments, many are not the most bioavailable, etc.
The dose must be at least 3 x day, though. All at once and there cannot be a correction. All at once and the magnesium will just be excreted by the kidneys and then it's not there later in the day for use by the body's cells.
All at once and the kidneys can become stressed or damaged because large doses are just too hard on the kidneys.
Yet, some require up to 2,000 a day (in divided doses of 500 mg - 700 mg or so).
Divided doses matter, as with food, so that the nutrients can be absorbed and used in increments.
Topic: MAGNESIUM - Informational Links set -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- The idea of finding which foods are richest in key nutrients is especially inviting for many reasons. It's best to get a good blend / balance in key foods - unless one's magnesium is very low and requires that separately.
When going for a whole food for it's range of nutrients, most often you will find you can cover several bases. For instance, such green foods as these not only supply nutrients but also really help the body better manage & expel metabolic waste ("detox").