Because I have not been able to make myself try Lariam, my LLMD came up last month with Clindamycin and Plaquenil for me to try. He said he's had several patients with babesia using that combo.. He warned me about the need to use Florastor, Theralac, etc., which I already use, and I said OK.
Then I started reading the online reviews, most of which had emphatic warnings NEVER to use the clindamycin ( I realize these online drug reviews are usually only used by people with problems from the abx in question) because of unrelenting heartburn and terrible c-diff. Even those using probiotics had life changing problems.
So I haven't started anything. My main concern is that my IgenX tests have for many years come back positive for babesia and lyme until the last set of tests were all negative. My doc feels that my immune system is just too battered to register, and my CD57 has been quite low the last year.
However, I do not have any typical babesiosis symptoms, although lyme symptoms seem to be cycling back through original symptoms. (I stopped abx for 15 months as my body was just shutting down)
My fear is that I'd end up much worse off than I am now, which is maybe about 50% of my pre lyme self, but for short periods I can fake it and seem almost normal to family and the few friends I have left. Just can't keep that up for long.
Already I have tried mepron, which was fine for 10 days and then resulted in temp of 101 (usual temp of 96.4) and an allover body rash lasting about two weeks, (Posted a couple of years ago about that) so if I don't do the clindamycin after passing on Lariam, I think my LLMD of 10 years may really give up on me.
I would do rife, or herbs, or ?, but my LLMD is pretty much an abx guy, and he has had success with many, many patients. And I am so much better than when I started with him.
So, from a truly highly informed group that probably understands my hesitation better than most doctors, would you do Clindamycin if that seemed to be the last option offered by one's LLMD?
Also, most articles said not recommended for over anyone 60. Except for lyme and probably Babs, I am a pretty healthy over 60 year old.
Thanks for your advice and opinions.
Ann
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Breaking up the post a little for easier reading for many here -
[ 01-04-2015, 01:59 AM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
Posted by Rumigirl (Member # 15091) on :
I haven't done the combo, but I have done Clindy before, and was fine with it. I know plenty of others who have done fine on it.
Of course, other's experience is no guarantee, but IMO if you do plenty of top-notch probiotics (wide-spectrum), plus plenty of sacchromyces boulardii, you will most likely be fine. I believe that is the opinion of many Lyme doctors.
I did have one Lyme doc who didn't want to use it for fear of C Diff, but he did not have many years' of experience with Lyme.
Of course, if you do it, you have to be vigilant with watching your symptoms and about using the above. But, frankly, that is the case with any abx.
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
I took oral clindamycin 150mg 2x/day for five years for Lyme, and I never developed C-diff. However, I did get C-diff from a course of erythromycin once, so go figure.
Posted by Ann in CA (Member # 97) on :
Thanks Rumi and Robin,
The reviews I read on several sites had quite a few people having taken clindamycin for dental surgeries, so maybe they just were not as aware of the need for probiotics, etc. with antibiotics.
Also, many had almost instant severe heartburn, which did not go away. Was that ever a problem for you?
This year I have had a number of occasions where I had to be able to hold up my end of family events. My mother died last year, and in the next couple of months I have to go help get her house in order. We have already spent some time on this, but this is supposed to be the big push, and there is a deadline, which two of us are more flexible about and one isn't, so I just have to be in top (for me) shape to push through this, and that is why I am so concerned about this combo causing problems. Usually I have handled some of the more difficult abx well, so it will probably be OK
Thanks again!
Ann
Posted by Sammi (Member # 110) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ann in CA: Also, many had almost instant severe heartburn, which did not go away. Was that ever a problem for you? My mother died last year, and in the next couple of months I have to go help get her house in order.Ann
Ann, I am so sorry about your mother's passing.
Clindamycin has always been a great med for me. It never caused me to have heartburn. I have never taken it with Plaquenil.
I think it may be better to treat Babesiosis with Mepron or Malarone, but they need to be taken with a macrolide such as Biaxin or Zithromax.
I hope it works well for you.
Posted by Ann in CA (Member # 97) on :
Thanks Sammi.
Yes, my LLMD has been trying to come up with another alternative to Mepron or Malarone, since the reaction to Mepron also eliminated the Malarone option. In the past I have been fine with Biaxin and or Zithromax in other combinations, so Clindamycin may be the best to try now.
I have stocked up on Florastor and several types of probiotics, so hope to avoid the problems which seemed so common on the online review sites.
Thanks again. I really appreciate first hand experience!
Ann
Posted by TF (Member # 14183) on :
I couldn't take biaxin or zith, so Mepron and Malarone were not options for me.
Still, I got rid of babesiosis by taking Bactrim DS and pulsing artemisinin. Have you tried that combo?
Here is a lyme doctor's book where he recommends it:
I did high dose IV clindy- put me into remission
Posted by geronimog (Member # 34875) on :
Ann,
I'm new to the babesia struggle but I'll add what I've been able to glean from recent searches. I'm in a similar situation, but I'm not able to take Mepron or Malarone because I can't get them prescribed here in Canada; nor can I have either of them delivered at a reasonable price.
IV seems to be the best way to use Clindamycin. Not just because it spares your gut, but because it's more effective.
I recently ordered some oral Clindamycin in case I should want to strengthen another protocol, though I will be using probiotics if I do, as well as consuming fermented foods.
Cryptolepis really is a good babesia intervention. It's better than Alinia or Bactrim, IMO. Though if you're battling b duncani or some other tough strain you'll have to combine it with other things. I'm waiting on a shipment of Brucea Javonica to see how that couples. The artemisinins are terrific, just make sure you're using them as part of a coordinated attack. They're dead to me now, as I used artemisinin on its own before I knew that what I was effectively treating was babesia. Babesia quickly develops resistance to the artemisinins when used on their own. Also, lots of garlic really does complement a decent protocol.
The other thing that might be worth trying is Proguanil (the other component of Malarone) in combination with other babesia therapies. I didn't even know this existed, but you can buy it as a solo drug or combined with chloroquine. There's an online source for it that doesn't require a prescription.
Plaquenil didn't augment my babesia therapy in any discernible way. Perhaps it needs to be combined with another drug, and maybe that's Clindamycin. Let us know how it goes.
A protocol I'm interested in is Primaquine/Chloroquine. If anyone has input on this one I'd appreciate it.
[ 01-10-2015, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: geronimog ]
Posted by Ann in CA (Member # 97) on :
Thanks TF. Have not tried either, think Bactrim has a sulfa connection and in the long distant past I had allergic reaction to a sulfa drug.
Beths. How high was your high dose Clindamycin? I just filled the prescription today, but have not started it yet as I have to be out of town for a few weeks and don't want to be away when I start.
Geronimog, This will be the first Babesia treatment I have tried since the mepron a couple of years ago didn't work out. I still do not have typical Babesiosis symptoms, but my LLMD thinks that it has been lurking and that I will not be able to get rid of the lyme until I take care of the babesia.
Thanks for all the info. It may be awhile before I start the new combo, but I will report back with any results when I do try it.
Posted by NWLinda (Member # 45206) on :
I used to be on the Marshall Protocol, an allopathic approach to killing off Lyme and other "stealth" bacteria. The Marshall Protocol Knowledge Base, MPKB.com or .org, has information on Clindamycin. You just type that into the search box. While on the MP, I took this antibiotic. However, scientists have found that when you take an antibiotic in high doses, it makes the bacteria go into hiding until the coast is clear (pretty smart little buggers. They can even communicate with each other through a process of "quorum sensing.") I don't think they use abx on the MP any more but, back in the day, they had you take them in pulsed, low doses. "Pulsed" means not every day. One abx was every other day, another abx was every 10 days, etc. That way, the critters come out of hiding and you hit 'em again. Personally, I like other, non-allopathic, treatments, especially homeopathy. Am just beginning to learn about SANUM therapy but it looks promising and I'm learning a lot about it on this site. I happened to take a homeopathic product called "Unda #1." When it caused the same kind of mild Herx that the MP caused (mild pain in various places in my head) I looked at the ingredient list. The one that caught my eye was "Argentum Metallicum" which is homeopathic silver. I know how silver can destroy pathogens so my guess is that it's the Arg-Met doing the job. Homeopathic remedies are energy medicine which, of course, communicate well with the energy of our human body. I don't know if it was the Arg-Met or not, that's just a guess. And I can't take it every day. I have to give my poor brain a rest. (I've never had a diagnosis of anything but it sounds as though it could be Babesia.)
Posted by Sammi (Member # 110) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ann in CA: Thanks Sammi. I have stocked up on Florastor and several types of probiotics, so hope to avoid the problems which seemed so common on the online review sites. Ann
Ann, I forgot to say that I had no problems with C-Diff when I took Clindamycin because I took high-quality acidophilus daily. It was a great antibiotic for me. Good luck!
Posted by bcb1200 (Member # 25745) on :
Clindamycin was great for my Babesiosis. I was on high-dose clindy too.
I highly recommend it.
I was scared before starting it too. Just make sure you take lots of THeralac and saccromyces boullardi.