It was a rough night last night. Long story, sorry.
Tooth #1, wisdom tooth pulled at age 20. Tooth #2, pulled New Years Eve day. Tooth #3, seems okay Tooth #4, partial root canal, hurts terribly. Tooth #5, new root canal, last month.
Endodontist has sugguested apicoectomy for Tooth #4. I would really rather have #4 and 5 pulled. My concerns are apicoectomy would not be successful and there's $2k down the drain. My other concern is getting #4 and #5 pulled and implanted, at $10k. Not sure what to do. On high dose of clindamycin. This is affecting my sinuses as ENT says none of my issues has anything to do with allergies or sinus. At this point, it's not the money, it's the pain, the inconvenience and the inability to get well. So...should I do the apicoectomy and hobble on for five years until I need the teeth pulled, or should I just them pulled? Argh, supposed to take little one to beach tomorrow morning and I'm miserable. Any help/guidance is appreciated.
Posted by WPinVA (Member # 33581) on :
I don't know, but I did have a successful apicoectomy a few years back, and so far it's doing ok.
This was after a failed root canal in that tooth.
Posted by jackie51 (Member # 14233) on :
Thanks. I'm sure that's what the dentist will recommend. I hate to open Pandora's box by getting two teeth pulled.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Poor you... I had terrible issues with teeth (I pulled so far 7). I seem to have stabilized in the last months due to my Tesla wand.
Dr. K. suggests no implants. Reasons: 1. Metallic screws work like an antenna for EMRs. Titanium is bad idea (most people cannot stand titanium according to my doctor, despite what dentists say).
2. if you got lyme and bad problems in the mouth, your bones must not be strong. I have seen people insisting on implants for aesthetic reasons, and loosing them one by one: the bone simply cannot hold. Some did bone grafts, some not, but infections weaken the bone (they become irregular, with holes).
3. if you didn't totally clean the bone cavitation, you will make a hole there to put the screw inside infected bone. Your immune system will have problem to reach the area even more. Besides EMRs will not help.
It's a difficult decision not to put implants, but I decided not to. Either I choose to live, without infections in my mouth, with removable partials that can be partially seen when I smile, or ...
I choose the nice aesthetic solution with implants, that may fall anyway one day, risking health problems there (probably infections, in my case). And on top, I can risk allergies as I usually react with allergies to the metal alloys they do.
AS for only pulling the teeth off, it may be okay for some healthy people. I would really try to find someone knowledgeable of CAVITATIONS (bone infection). My lyme doctor goes with me to the surgeon to pull off my teeth.
He guides the surgeon to clean cavitations, as the surgeon has no idea how to do that by himself (no kidding). He just cleans what his eyes see infected. But I swear, the infection goes much deeper in the bones.
It all looks scary. I was afraid first time. But after I took 7 teeth off, well, in the end, I had no anxiety at all. I knew what was going to come (fully infected bone, some bleeding, then one week of eating soft stuff, then that's about that).
All my root canals failed. All of them. Full infection inside the bones. I think some got infected due to lyme, but some I had problems much before lyme. I think root canals is something we can't afford, healthwise, I mean.
Anyway, I hope I didn't scare you too much. But I just write my experience. Google Dr. K and cavitation or root canals. The guy has decades of experience with such procedures.
**edited name of LLMD**
[ 07-14-2015, 05:52 PM: Message edited by: Lymetoo ]
Posted by jackie51 (Member # 14233) on :
removable partials seems the way to go, but I hate getting teeth pulled.
It was horrible when I did that 6 months ago. Though it was a big nasty molar.
I'll see what the endo says tomorrow morning.
Thanks Brussels.
Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :
A year ago i talked a new dentist into pulling one tooth. I wanted him.tonpullbtwo. he said second one needed crown. I said pull it. He changed his mind and filled it. 500. Last week...14 months since he filled it...big chunk fell off. I guess its the filling. I hope they pull it. They keep figuringvout how to get anothe r 300 here..another 500 there...imsick of it. But dont know how to find better dentist at this point
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Poor you guys. I hate dentists too. I'm still traveling 3 hours to one, 2 hours to another, then paying double fees to my lyme doctor who comes with me to dentist...
Conventional dentistry is a screwed up as conventional medical treatment.
I'm still glad I am able to afford these expensive treatments, but I'm getting tired to go for a talk with my dentist and lose 6 hours in a train, get all those EMRs and come wired back home and feel crap only from the train ride EMFs.
I guess, pulling is the best just because we are not supposed to keep dead teeth inside us (like keeping one dead finger on your hand)...
I mean, it makes no sense, when we have to fight so many infections and those miles of micro tubes inside the teeth become a perfect hiding place for anaerobic pathogens to reproduce, totally FREE from attack of our immune system.
There is no immune cells in a dead tooth as much as there is no immune cells in a dead finger.
But pulling it off ONLY and letting the whole mess inside, is also not very recommendable.
The good news: one tooth of mine was so infected that infection went until my eyes, almost. My whole cheek was in pain, and inside my nose, I felt the stinky liquids flowing in my throat.
I did the CAVITATION surgery, with my lyme doctor there, and the dentist cleaned what he could. Naturally, he didn't draw a hole through my cheekbone until my eyes, right? So he couldn't clean the whole mess, as it had spread far too far.
The tooth nosodes couldn't clean the infection either. I got then my wand, and started using it there, as all my bones were painful and the liquids still flowing (less, but still there).
It took me a couple of months, but the pain under my eye is solved. I think there is still one point with some bone infection left, but I continue to treat it. No more liquids, no more fatigue from it.
So I SUPPOSE some bad infected bones can still heal after pulling the tooth off, but you need something to boost that (like rife, infrared, PEMF, the Tesla wand, etc).
Posted by Looking (Member # 13600) on :
Okay, I commiserate with all of you. My bottom back molar needed a crown 5 years ago(so said my biological dentist), shortly after that the tooth abcessed and he then did a so-called biocompatible bio-calex root canal. (Wish I had it pulled instead !!!!!!)
The tooth bothered me for over five years and then a week ago a chunk cracked off and I took it as a sign the tooth wanted the heck out of there!
The extraction was brutal at the time as the tooth didn't want to budge, but I'm glad it is gone. The dentist looked at the root on the tooth and said: wow, that is discolored, I guess it's a good thing it's out.
My jaw is very sore still but it has only been a week and I have been putting my laser and essential oils and coconut oil on it and I am hoping it will heal up okay -- time will tell.
Now, here's the part that really bugs me! After the extraction, my dentist chuckled and said isn't it funny that he had the exact same experience with the same tooth in his mouth which he also could only tolerate for 5 years after which he had it pulled.
And then he said he was now skeptical about doing even biocompatible root canals. Wish he told me before he recommended all the dental work which cost a small fortune!!
Then he offered me an implant. I asked him if he had gotten one and he said no he was just going to leave it, so I said that sounds like a good idea to me!
He then offered me a pontic (false tooth) bonded to the next good tooth (I think). I asked him if he was getting one and he said he didn't think so. So I declined.
I have had an ongoing sinus/ear infection ever since that root canal and I wonder if the two are related?
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Oh man!!!! The pictures are awesome!!
We HAVE to laugh, not to cry!!!!!!!
Other info from dr. K:
- Say NO to bridges (pontic): why? The dentist have to drill the neighboring healthy teeth to place the bridge on them. They hold the false tooth.
First you loose part of the good teeth just to place the bridge on them.
Second: there will be food infiltration there (you can be sure)!
So the chances you lose your 2 healthy teeth are high. It may take a few years, but if your teeth health is fragile, it will happen. It's just a time bomb.
- Dr. K.s practioners have been instructed NEVER to do root canals, for decades.
No matter which bio compatible materials: the problem is simply: the tooth is dead, there will be miles of hiding places for anaerobic bacteria, no matter which bio compatible material you put inside the dead tooth.
Dr. K said statistics show:
-25% of root canals are successful; -50% will cause you serious health trouble; -25% will kill you.
My own lyme doctor, who is very sensitive, calm, a person with very mild manners, tells me with these words: " lyme disease will rarely kill, but dead teeth can kill you, very fast".
It is not infection that will kill, but what infection there causes in the body. I have own experience with heart symptoms: heart palpitations, waking up suddenly in the night every time, high blood pressure.
Symptoms disappeared the DAY I took the tooth off (the one that infected till my eyes!). From that day on, I could sleep again without waking up, my blood pressure went down, never I got strange palpitations again, anxiety went out.
I do believe on a causal relation.
- Implants with infected jawbones?? Well, my root canaled teeth had no more solid jawbones (all were cracking, with holes). The surgeon never understands what happens to chronic lyme patients: he always looks surprised when he pulled one of my teeth.
sometimes he finds awful granulomas (so big, he just scoop them off with a small spoon to show to my lyme doctor and to me).
Other times, when he is drilling in my jawbone, his device goes slipping here and there, and scares him as there are micro holes all over, that his eyes cannot see.
He has to concentrate to keep his drilling device firm and not slipping in my bones......
- Sinus infection or tooth root infection? Hard to say... My sinuses, I thought, were healthy.
Of course, when the tooth got infected, I kept leaking liquids from inside my nostrils, down the throat.... So it was not sinus in my case, as it was clearly concentrated on one side of my face...
Posted by jackie51 (Member # 14233) on :
The endo put a gapping hole in my gum above my partial root canal. This was to relieve the pressure from the infection. Wow, such a relief. All sorts of stuff oozed out of there, and still is. The sinuses are a little better, and seem to be draining. Little bit of blood here and there, but nothing scary.
I've scheduled an appt next week to have them cap the root canals from inside. They will then clean the rest of the infection out. While I would rather them take the two teeth, I firmly believe I'm not strong enough for that now. I couldn't find a tooth puller in a short enough time to have it done. Apparently all the tooth pullers make their money from wisdom teeth, and not suffering souls like myself.
Ugh, at least I'm a little better now and should get full relief next week.
Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :
Looking it doesnt sound like your bio dentistis a bio dentist selling you all those bad things. I am in nh usa and went to wonderful dentist in montreal
Posted by LisaK (Member # 41384) on :
wow, I hope you find the answer you need Jackie51. I don't have too many teeth issues so I am sorry I cannot help you.
I do, however have a question to you that seem to have lOTS of experience with tooth infection here--
my daughter, I just took her to ER at 4AM today because she aparently had a huge 4" abcess on her lower jaw. she had her wisdom teeth out 3 weeks ago and this infection probably started last weekend maybe?
ER gave her the first dose of abx Cloecin and said she must go back to her oral surgeon.
so what should I expect from oral surgeon and what should I make sure they do ? the infection went down her lower jaw and I am fearful those teeth or bone there were harmed.
am I being to overcautious?
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
You're not being overcautious: same problems with root canals and dead teeth MAY happen to pulled wisdom teeth.... Unfortunately.
The bigger problems may come later. The pain shows probable infection in the BONES. Google CAVITATION, not cavity. Probably, you can google cavitation and wisdom teeth.
Or cavitation, dr. K. ------------------------
Keeping dead teeth in, with infections is MUCH harder for a sick body to handle, due to extreme toxic substances and infections, than to pull them out, and have the bones cleaned.
Google: 'mercaptans' /thioethers and 'root canals'.
My dentist isn't the only one claiming to be a biological dentist who does root canals, but I will never have another one.
The debate about root canals is fully discussed in this following article by a biological dentist. He covers the controversy referred to in the "root canal coverup" book by Dr. George Meinig concerning Dr. Weston Price’s research of the issues surrounding root canals.
It is quite a long in-depth article giving his reasons for sometimes doing root canals. Worth reading and quite informative if you are on the fence about getting one or if you want to know why he would ever do one.
Brussels: I would agree after my experience not to get a root canal. It's a shame all biological dentist don't agree with this. You would probably find the above article interesting.
Posted by Looking (Member # 13600) on :
Hi Jackie:
Are you feeling better now. Was the procedure very painful?
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
I hope Jackie and Lisa's daughter are doing better now!!
Jackie, oral surgeons pull teeth all day long. It shouldn't be hard to find one, but it may take a week or so to get in to see one.
Posted by jackie51 (Member # 14233) on :
I had my surgery today. Was lengthy and they couldn't finish. It was the right thing to do, they drained my sinus through a hole in the mouth. Pretty dang disgusting. Yes, the procedure is painful. They can't anesthetize the nasal cavity so the pin pricks used for drainage are felt.
I have to go back Thursday for more stitches, as it is still draining. This should eliminate my sinus and tooth pain. We'll see. The doc said the roots of the teeth cleaned up rather well, so hopefully I'm good.
I'm glad it wasn't pulled, because I'm not sure the oral surgeon would have been so precise in making sure everything was clean.
Thanks for asking.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Looking, I read the WHOLE article, thank your for posting it.
My daughter of 11 had an accident and lost a whole frontal tooth (it simply fell off), and half of another...
The dentist PUT it back in her mouth, about 3-4 hours after the accident. She did then, a week later or so, a root canal.
All my root canal procedures failed. All of them. I'm reaching 50, I suffer from chronic infections for about 30 years (candida, then lyme, now lyme is dormant and candida, I think, too).
The problem with bad root canals that get infected again (and we barely feel anything because a dead tooth does not ache), is that they end up killing other teeth around.... from inside out.
That's my experience. So I didn't want my daughter to have a root canal. She has no choice though. She has to have one, as she can't have anything else, until she reaches 21 years old (as the jaws are growing).
Here in Europe, some biological dentists are starting with ceramic implants (let's say, zirconium instead of titanium). Zirconium is a metal, but behaves as a ceramic material, if I understood well. Whether it is weak or strong, i don't know. I read that it is a pretty hard metal.
Anyway, daughter has exactly that calcium hydroxide that this website mentions!!! I know it, because I was the one in charge of transmitting the information to the next dentist, and I wrote it down! It's still inside her, as we'll change it only after the vacations.
I feel better knowing it is such a powerful disinfectant!
I hope Sacred Heart is feeling better and surviving the ordeal. It IS an ordeal, all these dental procedures.
I have partials, as my jaw bones are destroyed, and I do not want to implant anything in the bones, so that it gives any more hiding places to bacteria, or weaken my bones still further with implants...
Anyway, during my worst times of root infection, I only did a root canal as emergency procedure. Then left the tooth there, as I was fed up of treatements.
My lyme went dormant, but the root of that specific tooth continue to slowly infect my jawbone, till my health collapsed again about a year or two ago. I had heart problems, high blood pressure, anxiety, insomnia. All symptoms DISAPPEARED once the culprit tooth was extracted.
but definitively, for lack of solutions, sometimes there is no other option as root canals. I just see my daughter.
What I do with her, is that I put her on the TEsla wand twice a week specifically for that tooth, in the hope that it does infect for the next 10 years. Then she has to decide on her own (implants, partials, whatever).
Posted by jackie51 (Member # 14233) on :
So, yesterday got two teeth pulled. Apicoectomy was a fail. Sinuses got worse, almost ended up in Hospital.
Feel some pain today, but can go to work.
Periodontist(?) said it was a mess in there. He did bone graft and mesh to close up sinuses. He was very good, his daughter had lyme and used to see Dr. B, way back when.
So, I guess removable partials when all the bone heals.
Posted by jackie51 (Member # 14233) on :
So, yesterday got two teeth pulled. Apicoectomy was a fail. Sinuses got worse, almost ended up in Hospital.
Feel some pain today, but can go to work.
Periodontist(?) said it was a mess in there. He did bone graft and mesh to close up sinuses. He was very good, his daughter had lyme and used to see Dr. B, way back when.
So, I guess removable partials when all the bone heals.
![[shake]](graemlins/shake.gif)