My son just showed me this, says he got the bite a few days ago and this just appeared. He says it is very itchy (don't remember my tick bites ever being itchy). What are your opinions on whether it could be a spider or other?? Freaking out.
As always thank you for all your help!!
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Oh, so sorry that you / he are going through. My rule for rashes would be they should have in print - right there with the rash - exactly what critter did that and what microbes they left. No critter has accepted the terms of such agreement, however.
My opinion: sure could be a bulls eye rash. I would get him into a LL doctor ASAP.
It could be that a spider or mosquito bit him and then elicited a lyme reaction if he might have been harboring lyme. Just a thought.
As for it being itchy, if it is lyme and from a mosquito bite, that is one explanation. But some tick bites can itch for some people. The clearing and then that ring around it is just too distinctive and I'd bet on lyme. Sigh.
The good news might be that not all strains of lyme that cause a bulls eye are equal. Some are easier than others. Yet, even with an "easier" strain of lyme, coinfections can exist.
It's a good thing, though that you are well ahead of the curve with this so it can get attention soon rather than decades later as happens with so many.
You likely know this but it's far too soon for even a good lyme test to work. Just remind regular doctors of this if they don't know it. It case you need this for a doctor who is not LL:
Let's Not Be Rash About Erythema Migrans - May 24, 2012
In comment section:
Pam Weintraub - May 26, 2012
If you are doing a rash wrap-up, do not forget Ben Luft's finding that only four of 20 strains cause disseminated disease;
the other 16 are rash-only For various reasons --imo on both sides, political-- no one brings this up.
It means that fewer cases of Lyme actually disseminate (reasons why activists may not mention) but it also means that of those cases that DO disseminate, much more of early Lyme is actually a treatment failure (reason IDSA types may not mention.)
It is a fact that helps no one win their political fight, but it is so important for patients to understand this.
Pam Weintraub, Cure Unknown -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- A tiny dab of TEA TREE OIL might help take the itch away -- if he's old enough not to have that wind up in his eyes - or keep it covered with a gauze pad.
Many health markets carry this, as well as many web vendors. If find it helps to keep the area moist with the gel, though, so covering it with a gauze pad and plenty of gel to keep it moist for a few hours helps.
Evid Based Complement Alternat Med. 2012;2012:375671.
Epub 2012 Jan 24.
Wound Healing and Anti-Inflammatory Effect in Animal Models of Calendula officinalis L. Growing in Brazil.
Excerpt:
. . . This experimental study revealed that C. officinalis presented
anti-inflammatory and antibacterial activities as well as angiogenic and fibroplastic properties acting in a positive way on the inflammatory and proliferative phases of the healing process.
The herb, STINGING NETTLE may serve to compensate for the reaction by calming the the cytokine storm that is often part of a herx reaction. -
Posted by joahsark (Member # 20598) on :
Keebler,
Thank you so much for your input. What you stated is exactly my fear. That it awakened the Lyme. My daughter tested positive on the Elisa at 6 years old, I'm sure it was contracted congenitally as I grew up in Bucks Co PA with a history of many tick bites and had been very ill for years before having her and then being diagnosed after. My daughter is still very ill years later. We are treating and have a mHBOT chamber on the way to the house now.
My son has never shown any signs except for the fact that he does have big angry-looking "cat scratch" looking marks on stomach, back and arms. We were always praying they were stretch marks but he's just never been overweight enough to produce these. We chose not to treat, although he has been on different abx through the years for acne, ear infections etc and nothing ever "came out".
He will be seeing my LLND Friday to treat 8 weeks I'm sure. Is doxy the only alternative? It has gotten so expensive out of pocket.
Thank you again for your time in reaching out. So appreciated.
Posted by hopingandpraying (Member # 9256) on :
Welcome to Lymenet!
Your dear son needs to be evaluated A.S.A.P. by a Lyme-literate doctor (LLMD). Non LLMDs have no clue about this horrible disease or its complex treatment! The rash looks like a bull's-eye rash, in my opinion.
A LLMD is one who has treated Lyme disease and the co-infections which come with it for many years and has gotten patients well. A good one will follow Dr. B's Guidelines, the "gold standard" for Lyme treatment.
The top LLMD, Dr. H, has written a new book entitled, "Why Can't I Get Better?". It is an excellent source of information.
Also read "Cure Unknown" by Pamela Weintraub. Check your local library or buy it used on Amazon.
View "Under Our Skin" for free on www.hulu.com Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- joahsark,
Glad to hear that he will see your LL ND
First, best to get the LL doctor's assessment / determination / advice as to what this is, might be, etc.
If lyme and IF symptoms:
"Friday to treat 8 weeks I'm sure. Is doxy the only alternative? It has gotten so expensive out of pocket."
Depending upon his age, doxycycline may not be the Rx of choice (I forget, though).
A LL ND should be especially good at having various good choices, though, I would not limit treatment to 8 weeks, as that could be far too short of a time -- unless you mean for one particular drug and that other treatment would take over from there.
[OR -- editing this part in. If he has no symptoms, well, then, certainly shorter treatment with support follow up would make sense. That part slipped my mind earlier]
Also be mindful that any antibiotic alone can CAUSE chronic lyme of the cystic form if not addressed. From the very first dose, IMO, it is absolutely necessary to FIRST have in the body a clear anti-cystic treatment before any antibiotic is given.
You might go ahead and start the PROBIOTICS now and alter diet if sugar needs to be less so when he starts the Rx, a better chance of gut stability.
Good time to have him assessed for Bartonella, too, in light of the characteristic markings.
I'm glad you have a LL ND all lined up as I was going to suggest you / he would find a broader range of options that way for this detour on your road map.
Maps may seem like they should be constant but even maps must change as circumstances change. You may have to swap out a vehicle for a canoe at times but I hope the journey will be successfully (if not easily) navigated.
Good luck & take care. -
[ 09-30-2015, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by hopingandpraying (Member # 9256) on :
I just read your latest post and wanted to tell you my son had red stretch marks on his back (horizontally, across the waist). He was diagnosed with Bartonellosis - one of the co-infections which comes with Lyme.
It took SIX YEARS just to find out what was wrong with him. He had an oval red rash on his thigh, but it was not in the form of a bull's eye. Years later I found out it was a form of the bull's-eye.
Posted by joahsark (Member # 20598) on :
Thank you both so much!!! Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Although your LL ND will have various options, they likely use this as a template of sorts. There is a section here just for children:
Advanced Topics in Lyme Disease (Diagnostic Hints and Treatment Guidelines for Lyme and Other Tick Borne Illnesses
Dr. Burrascano's Treatment Guidelines (2008) - 37 pages
and
ILADS has a new set of guidelines out now, too. You might check their site for a frame of reference. ILADS' website has a search engine so you can just pop "children" into that:
I must stop now yet suggest doing a web search - and a search at Buhner's own website for
children, lyme, Buhner -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- If your son is still "Treat or Treat" age, well, the sugar thing must still be considered (and you could make some nut butter balls or such). Yet, for a start:
Well, I can't say if they are too the moon with glycemic index or not (and a lot of that depends on the dinner children have prior to trekking the neighborhood, too) but this looks like a good place to search.
They have a lot of those little pieces / bulk candies and also things like Theo Peanut Butter Cups, regular sized.
Absolutely NO artificial colors or dyes, NO artificial flavors, NO artificial sweeteners, NO preservatives, NO hydrogenated oils!
Categories: Organic, Dye-Free, GMO-Free, Allergy-Friendly, Gluten-Free, Made in USA, Fair Trade, Vegan & a "special diet" tab, too. -
Posted by joahsark (Member # 20598) on :
Definitely not a flea bite. Pics may not be the best but this is an extremely defined bulls-eye that continued to expand over time. Possible it may be spider though.
Saw the doctor today, we have decided to treat (prophylactic) for the recommended period of time (she treats on the longer end) testing now through Labcorp to get a baseline on his whole health picture, including an Elisa and W. Blot (we know it is extremely unlikely it will show anything) and then again at the end of treatment through Igenix.
Thank you to everyone who took the time to respond!
Posted by LisaK (Member # 41384) on :
looks like spider to me, but may be tick. (lyme). when I had my EM it lasted months and was hot to the touch, but I don't remember it being itchy. but that was 18 years ago, so...
best of luck to you and your son and other family members!
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
nope not flea. I just had plenty of those and ain't chigger either. I'd say yep bulls eye for lyme. got on abx right away and get igenex test.
my bulls eye was dark red, oiley looking top with blisters and itched like crazy. it lasted a couple of weeks but never expanded.
Posted by Judie (Member # 38323) on :
Mine Lyme rash looked EXACTLY like your son's rash. Mine was very itchy and eventually hurt. It was misdiagnosed as a spider bite by a doc I trusted for years.
My joints hurt and I had to see another doc for a PT referral. On a whim I showed the new doc my rash because I was scared it was infected.
She diagnosed it as an erythema migrans rash on the spot!!!
and no some of them don't expand. mine didn't. and mydoc also said spider bites.
Posted by joahsark (Member # 20598) on :
Thank you all again for taking the time to respond and for your support. Definitely treating and testing.
Posted by Judie (Member # 38323) on :
It may have already been mentioned, but you need to wait about a month to do the typical tests. (6-8 weeks is the best window after initial infection, my rash started about 1 1/2 after infection)
The body needs time to produce antibodies or nothing will show up on the western blot.
The rash is 100% diagnostic. The tests are not.
Posted by joahsark (Member # 20598) on :
Thanks Judie, yes, we are going to test after 8 weeks. Thank you!
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