I'm taking abx, OLE, and I started treating what I thought was yeast with monistat.
For about a week it felt like it was getting better -- in fact I felt incredibly better -- but now....oh man.
It hurts.
I don't know what else to do. Treating the yeast, taking the abx, doing the messy cream, even took a claritin and this is the worst it's been in a month.
I also have chills and a rumbly low gut.
What's happening here? Is it something worse than a bladder infection? Did my abx stop working?
Posted by Catgirl (Member # 31149) on :
It could be yeast combined with a UTI. A rumbly low gut for me is usually yeast related. Just killing yeast is only part of the answer. You might want to up your probiotics or s.boullardi.
Try 1 spoon of baking soda in a glass of water. It makes bacteria slide off the bladder walls.
Posted by Haley (Member # 22008) on :
You may need a specific antibiotic, get a urine culture.
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
The last time I got a culture ( two weeks ago) there were no culturable bacteria. The time before that it was enterococcus faecalis, which I bet is still there.
The only thing that works on that really well is macrobid, bactrim works sometimes but not always.
Given my immune system I probably have e. coli, and enterococcus, and yeast.
Misery.
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
I went to see an ID doc today, and then I went to the walkin clinic to get my urine tested.
It has bilirubin and protein in it, and no white blood cells. Since there isn't an infection that they can detect, there is no chance of getting any relief from the pain except for taking Azo.
She's running a whole liver panel, cbc's again, UA and colony count.
I'm SO tired of being sick, tired and scared.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
- Have you seen a urologist? ID doctors are not quite one with the bladder. I'd see a bladder specialist.
And, yet, D-Mannose is THE most important step ASAP. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- It makes me nervous that you are taking Azo and also Olive Leaf Extract. I would take one or the other until you talk to a naturopathic doctor to see if it is safe to take both.
Taking Claritin with OLE also is a question.
Azo is phenazopyridine hydrochloride.
It does not appear to do much for the cause (just to deal with pain) and, well, there is a lots of chemical stuff there. That, alone can be hard on the bladder (and kidneys). If it's not helping, seem D-Mannose would be better.
Phenazopyridine should be avoided by people with glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase deficiency,[2][7][8][9] because it can cause hemolysis (destruction of red blood cells) due to oxidative stress.[10] It has been reported to cause methemoglobinemia after overdose and even normal doses.[11]
. . . Phenazopyridine is a type of azo dye.[16] Other azo dyes, which were previously used in textiles, printing, and plastic manufacturing, have been implicated as carcinogenic agents that can cause bladder cancer.[17]
While phenazopyridine has never been shown to cause cancer in humans, evidence from animal models suggests that it is potentially carcinogenic.[2][18] . . .
"Amines" can irritate nerve tissue, that is to be considered, perhaps.
In chemistry, a hydrochloride is a salt resulting, or regarded as resulting, from the reaction of hydrochloric acid with an organic base (e.g. an amine). . . . -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- If you are still using monistat, you might want to check out those ingredients, the acid in that can burn. My memory of that is severe burning for all tender tissue in that area. It never helped me at all and made me so much worse.
But it also just might not be the right thing for you.
Terazol 3 - suppositories (not the cream) worked far better for me. Far, far better. -
Posted by Haley (Member # 22008) on :
Enterococcus is really difficult to eradicate . I would continue to treat that and take a really good probiotic. I think It may be sensitive to Levaquin which can damage tendons if you take it too long .
Posted by Judie (Member # 38323) on :
quote:Originally posted by Haley: Enterococcus is really difficult to eradicate . I would continue to treat that and take a really good probiotic. I think It may be sensitive to Levaquin which can damage tendons if you take it too long .
Just want to chime in that levaquin can damage much more than tendons and it can happen with just one dose. The problems I've had from that drug is worse than Lyme.
Posted by shehasmoxy (Member # 44186) on :
I just got a UTI today. Caught it early, knew it wasn't a yeast infection so I went in to the walk in clinic so I wouldn't suffer over the holidays.
I was given 3 days of cipro. I'm a little nervous to take it, as I don't want my Lyme to flare. I've been off antibiotics for over a year. I'm upset to take the cipro, but don't really have the time to try other remedies ( I'm going on holiday next week).
My sister had a nasty UTI, she waited too long to treat it and ended up at the hospital with IV antibiotics as it reached her kidneys and was pretty dangerous.
There are good herbs out there that might be helpful, plus probiotics are always good. Baking soda, cranberry juice, etc.
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
Sorry I couldn't get here earlier today - the server wouldn't let me on.
Update:
I am supposed to be on Bactrim for Maybe-Lyme prescribed by a LLMD. This worked out fantastically for 11 days and also seemed to be treating a UTI that did not clear with 7 days of Macrobid.
However things went south on day 9.
In desperate and horrible bladder pain convinced that I still had a bladder infection although I could not understand how I still had one since I was treating it with Bactrim and felt extremely improved after 5 days or so.
So I went for a check and a culture.
Bad news.
Bilirubin, hyaline casts, URIC ACID present.
Also neutrophils are down and eosinophils are up.
Conclusion?
Did not drink enough water with the bactrim, urine got too acidic, not IC yet.
Stopped Bactrim.
Improving taking cimetidine and Azo and Alka Seltzer Gold.
LLMD "sees no reason to stop" Bactrim but I'm going to call him day after Christmas to revisit my treatment plan.
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
First thought:
It was interesting visiting the IC boards( Interstitial Cystitis).
There would be long posts about the IC, and many lengthy descriptions about Urology visits.
But nine times out of ten if not ALWAYS, a person posting over a year or two would finally say - actually I do have an infection.
This happened really often.
The infection would not culture on the first, second, third and fourth time but on the fifth, for example -- suddenly, oh, yes, look, we cultured ENTEROCOCCUS.
I wonder if sometimes the culture they are looking for is Lyme, which probably can't be cultured out of the bladder.
It seems also that IC people finally do really well and recover, with appropriate abx - longterm, say a year.
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
The other thing I want to mention is that I went to the drugstore looking for bladder pain relief.
Sulfa drugs are filtered by the kidneys, this is why they're good to kill e.coli that's made it to the bladder.
However if you have a UTI and are prescribed Bactrim or Septra, stay away from a product called Cystex, which contains both aspirin and a drug called Methamine. They describe this as an "antiseptic", because it interacts with the contents of your bladder and makes formaldehyde.
That kills some types of bacteria.
However, if you're taking Bactrim at the same time, this is bladder/kidney poison. I'm not exactly sure how sulfur metabolites interact with formaldehyde but the published effects are not good at all.
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
shehasmoxy, if you are on absolutely nothing else and have no other problems, you might skip the cipro and try OTC Cystex.
The pharmacist told me that the active ingredient in it was an antibiotic but it contained too low of an amount to need a prescription.
Formaldehyde is pretty powerful and would probably kill whatever you've got, especially since you caught it early.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Jordana,
"Formaldehyde is pretty powerful and would probably kill whatever you've got," you write.
Not sure if this is a joke and my eyes can't find a reference above to anyone taking - or suggesting - formaldehyde.
[editing in later: it took my eyes about six tries to find this -- vision spasms a lot. oh, I found the reference and you did say it's a toxin. And you did caution about combining things that create this in the body. Still if someone else's eyes go right to your last statement about this, they could take that out of context.]
Formaldehyde is terribly toxic, adding to your first caution about that (but the second note seems to counteract the caution).
It's a chemical used in embalming fluid, not good to go into a living person - ever. If various chemical medicine taking combine to create that in our bodies, it's important to know if that could happen and avoid it.
Formaldehyde can damage and kill cells in the liver & kidneys, bladder . . . brain, nerves, the heart, etc. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Some of the OTC products cause concern to me, too. It's good to first try D-Mannose and also specific probiotics for the bladder that often are made by some of the good D-Mannose companies, too.
Try to keep as many chemicals & dyes out of your body / your bladder as possible.
And, of course, where one might have access to a real expert in bladder issues, that would be best. There are many kinds of infections that are not helped at all by garden variety antibiotics - or by ANY antibiotic.
Some viruses, mycoplasmas, etc. and even GLUTEN could be at the root of this.
As best possible, go beyond guessing and get a true picture. Ask around for the best urologists in your area. Ask of those in the lyme support groups, the CFS support groups, etc.
UTI symptoms may not actually be from a UTI, an infection. The pH balance of the bladder, the flora, etc. to be considered.
Personal care products can also be loaded with chemicals that can clobber the bladder big time. Baths, too, can make any urinary issue worse. Not all urinary issues are UTIs. -
[ 12-26-2015, 05:51 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
sorry but no way would I use something with formaldehyde.
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
. No -- lol -- it turns the urine in the bladder into a formaldehyde solution. It's a metabolite chemistry trick.
It's sold as an anti-infective antibiotic at prescribtion doses under the name Hipex and Urex.
The formaldehyde won't go *in you* -- it will disinfect the urine and go out of you.
Over the counter it is an ingredient in very low doses in a product called Cystex.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Sounds like you are advocating for this as you say "formaldehyde won't go *in you*"
yes, it will affect all body tissue - nothing in the body stays in one place.
and you say that it will "disinfect the urine and go out of you." Not true. It will not "go out of you" (without major detox work)
and I doubt that it will do much to address any infection as it creates such toxicity and irritation in other ways, the body just can't fight anymore.
We do not want any more formaldehyde in our bodies than may already be there - that shouldn't have been in the first place but cheap manufacturing practices in home goods, cars, personal care products, preservatives even in medicines / vaccines, etc. are already more than we should have to carry.
No matter how it forms or get there, it's toxic and can kill cells, cause damage, even in small amounts.
We do not need toxic chemical "disinfectants" in our bodies. -
[ 12-26-2015, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
Formaldehyde, styrene among substances deemed carcinogens or likely to cause cancer
By Rob Stein - Washington Post - June 10, 2011
Excerpts:
. . . Formaldehyde had been listed in the “reasonably anticipated” category since the second report, based on studies showing it caused nasal cancer in rats. . . .
. . . [Formaldehyde] was moved into the “known carcinogen” category based on additional research that found those with higher exposure were at
increased risk for certain types of rare cancers, including cancer of the throat and a cancer of white blood cells known as myeloid leukemia, officials said. . . . -
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
I think this is why it's in low doses in Cystex.
Yes, I think I'm advocating it, especially since it is active against enterococcus which can be life-threatening if it becomes systemic.This happens with higher regularity in immune-compromised people.
Like any drug it can be toxic in the liver if you're a slow metabolizer or have liver problems-- this is not the formaldehyde but the actual drug methenamine that has this risk.
Otherwise it has absolutely no effect on gut flora and no systemic effects at all, unlike cipro which is the second-line drug prescribed for resistant UTIs.It only reacts with urine, in the bladder, and it can kill enterococcus and staph.
It can't be taken with bactrim because the sulfa reacts with the formaldehyde.
I'm actually thinking about trying it since my other options are all systemic abx; which are not even being offered at this time because the culture was negative. I got a referral to a urologist.
You might be right about the gluten though. I'm just reading over all the genetic testing info from the LLMD. I've got both genes for celiac.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- If you are " thinking about trying it" (which I hope you do not do for various reasons but mostly that formaldehyde is never a good idea - there are always safer approaches)
please stop all herbs that I might have suggested as I don't know how / if they will work together or if they might cause problems together. Unless you can consult with a certified naturopathic doctor (ND), please do not mix OTC chemical approaches with herbal supplements.
An ND would also best be able to guide you with which Rx and supplements will work well together and which will not. -
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
. No -- lol -- it turns the urine in the bladder into a formaldehyde solution. It's a metabolite chemistry trick.