This is topic Tests to indicate progress/stop treatment?? in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.

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Posted by me (Member # 45475) on :
I've been dx with Lyme, babesia, and bartonella. I'm seeing my LLMD tomorrow. I'm wondering what tests are used to show progress and how to know when to stop treatment (besides at least two months after symptoms subside)?

Or, are the tests unreliable due to the buggers evading detection and it is more of a clinical decision?
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
There are no tests like that, me.
Posted by duncan (Member # 46242) on :
Nor are many mainstream outlets looking for such tests. NIH efforts are dedicated almost solely to early detection.

This is due to the myth that Bb and company are invariably easy to cure with a cookie-cutter regimen.
Posted by me (Member # 45475) on :
Hmm, so a clinical decision. Thanks so much.
Posted by bluelyme (Member # 47170) on :
Cd 57 can see if immune sx is getting better and ispot may be up and running again...
Posted by WakeUp (Member # 9977) on :
Sorry to say that our government has basically put us all in the wastebasket over the past 25 years--- for unknown reasons..

Some of us here believe that this AMA/IDSA/CDC/NIH willful neglect has been due to just plain old hubris and scientific pride---

others of us believe that there is a darker side to "Chronic Lyme willful neglect" in the scientific community---

based on our research on the many other emerging diseases that are surfacing all over the place in recent years, plus factual evidence on biological weapons testing on the US population over past decades.

The latter of course is a more frightening hypothesis, and most people do not wish to think about it or address it in any way, similar to the way the spouse of an alcoholic wants to deny that the family is in trouble.

Whatever the cause for scientific neglect at the top, one way to see your treatment progress would be to purchase a cheap microscope, and learn how to see spirochetes (easy to see) in your live blood.

When you count less than 5 motile spirochetes in a one hour viewing session of your live blood, you should be feeling very healthy, according to one microbiologst who does live blood microscopy..

If you see microfilaria in your blood, then this parasite (recently ID'd by Dr. Sapi) may be figuring in to your health. I am not a doctor, just a fellow chronic Lyme sufferer.

Good luck ---- and we will find a cure.


(breaking this up for easier reading for many here)

[ 06-10-2016, 09:01 PM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
Posted by me (Member # 45475) on :
Thank you so much for everyone who replied. WakeUp,
How much would you spend on a microscope? I'm assuming not a Kids microscope or anything? Would I learn how to do this on YouTube or is there a site or book you recommend? Thank you.
Posted by WakeUp (Member # 9977) on :
Hi, Me--

I bought the Amscope with videocamera software for my computer-- but before you take the plunge,try reading through the Microscopy thread for tips on which scope to buy if you have extra funds.

Lymedin2010 is the expert here--- and has taken amazing videos of spirochetes in his blood which he has posted on youtube.

He has also photographed microfilaria worms in the blood of a crushed tick, probably from his backyard.. His Tick blood video---YUCK!!!

You need about 800x to 1,000x magnification to see spirochetes in a drop of your blood. (2,000x for closeups on the beasties) which the $199 Amscope has.

There are four easy screw- in slots for lenses in the scope above the slide, and two drop in slots for lenses where your eyes rest.

You get your magnification based on the lens combos you choose to use--- so if your eye lenses are 20x and your scope lens is 40x --- then your magnification is 800x! Very easy. All these lenses come with the Amscope (in sealed plastic bags) on Amazon, and are easy to screw in to the scope after you unpack it.. Its delivered in just 3 days.

You can also use 10x for your eye pieces, and 100x for your scope for 1,000 magnification! Easy... I find it harder to focus with the 100x lens, though.

Your red blood cells are very clear with the 20x eye pieces and the 40x scope combo (800x total). It also helps to have a bright lamp nearby the slide, for extra light, or just use a cheap headlamp. You also need to buy a starter pack of glass slides with coverslips for about $6.

I also bought a cheap $15 diabetes test kit at CVS for the lances to draw blood. (It doesn't hurt) When my husband cuts himself shaving I quickly grab a slide!!!

His red blood cells look much better than mine, but I did see a parasite in his blood which looked like a filaria-- he wasn't too happy...LOL and has stopped eating Sushi.

Here's an Amscope microscope for $199 on Amazon, but you can also get them used on craigslist. Your kids (if you have them) will have so much fun with this scope!!! It really is amazing to see your family's blood for the first time:

I bought the Amscope Trinocular (has a third eye piece for a video camera connected to the computer--- with the additional darkfield lens which allows you to see all the critters against a black background-- they light up really cool!!), but you can easily get by with the simple binocular Amscope microscope, which is inexpensive.

Your red cells should be round and plump, not misshapen, and not with scalloped edges. Your red cells should also not be clumped like rolls of coins (rouleaux) and also should not be clumped in sticky clumps.. Learn how to do the simple blood smear on youtube, and also check out some of the Liveblood analysis videos on youtube. .

Viewing is best at the periphery of the smear on the slide, where the red cells are spread out a bit. You can see spirochetes hanging off the red blood cells, sucking the energy out of you!!.

Spiros also come out of a drying sample after several hours- 24 hours--- they flee the dying red blood cells!!!

Check out all of Lymedin2010's incredible live blood videos on youtube to know what to look for!! Good luck and God bless.


(breaking this up for easier reading for many here)

[ 06-10-2016, 09:02 PM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
Posted by me (Member # 45475) on :
Wow, thank you so much for the detailed info, WakeUp. I really appreciate it!!

I have to ask based on your screen name and things you have posted--are you a Rage Against the Machine fan?
Posted by ohioperson22 (Member # 47837) on :
So the IGeneX multiplex PCR and DOT-Blot antigen tests have no place in assessing treatment progress?

Why does the company offer them, then?

Sure, maybe one DOT-blot that is negative doesn't rule out remaining infection, but if you do multiple blood, serum, and urine DOT-blots over the course of several weeks/months, while on ABX, then the lyme is probably gone, no?

(by the way, don't do this unless you are rich)
Posted by bluelyme (Member # 47170) on :
Its like igm and igg...if not igm them most docs wont treat or consider it an active infection. But as we know with herpes and epstein barr they keep replicating far into cfs

and shingles even though there is no immune response by immunoglobulin sub class for borellia this is how isda is able to make bs up like pltds

and say its just the damage done even though there are spirochettes still doing damage .i agree with wakeup ..btw we found the micrfilarie in my moms blood

and she had a good reaction to the blood fluke frequency cafl using plasma rife ..i need a scope to do some real doug like research.

Also that my old llmd said some morgellons patients had some relief with iv argentn 23.some onr also using dmso as carrier for borax silver etc etc...maybe a myco/bart mutation..just ideas
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Yes, clinical decision based on how you are doing/feeling.

No current test will be able to tell you when to stop treatment.
Posted by susank (Member # 22150) on :
I guess I need to read the microscope thread in it's entirety.
Borrelia, Bart., Babs, parasites etc - can be seen in blood under scopes?
If yes - that begs the question - why are folks not tested that way i/o antibody tests etc?

I keep saying I'm not going to buy one more thing - but.......would consider buying a scope.

I wonder though - for years I had IVIG at an oncology/hematology clinic. My blood was looked at under a scope. I finally asked the gal - if she saw anything strange to let me know.
I tried to explain what Babs would look like - of course I got the "fish eye" from her. I stopped asking. But she did say she did not see anything unusual.

This is an interesting thread - if scopes could help to see the effects of treatment.

And to see what to treat!
Posted by WakeUp (Member # 9977) on :

You're right--there are so many "whys" that need to be answered!!! At some point medical incompetence is beginning to look like planned malice.

The gold standard for syphilis diagnosis for many years was microscopic analysis. Spirochetes are CLEARLY seen and recognized by microbiologists--- under a microscope!!!

I was told by my endocrinologist --- the "junk" surrounded my macrophages near my thyroid. Well-- she was fired or "transferred" soon after-- in favor or a guy who only uses expensive, but unreliable blood tests.

American healthcare is now all about the 'dollar"-- sad but true.
Posted by WakeUp (Member # 9977) on :
Originally posted by me:
Wow, thank you so much for the detailed info, WakeUp. I really appreciate it!!

I have to ask based on your screen name and things you have posted--are you a Rage Against the Machine fan?

I don't know "Rage Against the Machine" but love the title-- I'll listen to a few youtube videos when I get a chance!! Thanx---

Lately I have gotten off the "anger" and "rage" track (yes biological weapons research does make a person angry!!!...) and I have gotten more deeply into my faith, having realized that there is not much future for mankind with these biological weapons all around us- Zika virus being the newest Lab weaponized creation.
I am waiting patiently now on my savior who I believe is Yeshua--- and trying desperately to forgive the monsters who have unleashed this weaponized garbage on innocent humanity.

I do have some peace over it now, finally!!!

God bless you all.
Posted by me (Member # 45475) on :
WakeUp, Glad you are finding some peace. You might want to listen to some lyrics rather than listen to them first as they can be hard to understand.

Topics in songs include things such as how masses are controlled by spin doctors and media and how people do bad things in the name of "causes" ( at least in my interpretation).

It is great to be informed, and I am so happy you are finding peace amongst everything.


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