What does it do for Lyme patients and how do you do it?
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
I sting myself with 10 bees on the spinal nerve roots up and down my back three times a week with two days off.
Bee Venom kills Lyme disease, babesia, bartonella and viruses.
Posted by bluelyme (Member # 47170) on :
Hi tulips , hoshindo uses bee stingers on acupuncture meridians ..powerful medicine. .i have been getting bvt for 9 months now ...it may work on other apicomplexins also.
..it has many amino acids and dopamine ..the mettlin was found in a study in 1996 to paralyze spirochete
i think it works synergistic with abx or herbs ...it clears brain fog and thins blood for a day..the early herxs were pretty intense ..
you can buy bees from mail order for 10c a bee. But getting a hive and planting flowers help pollinate. No bees no food ..there is a mite problem world wide so more backyard hives the better ...
let me know if i can help. Tweezers ,apitherapy box and epi pen and bottle benadrly and 3-5000 mg of vit c a day is all you need . Say to your pcp that the neighbors got bees and you need a epipen for saftey...
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
how do you get the bees to sting you right in those spots?
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
You hold them by the thorax with long bent nose tweezers.
Blue, the group I'm in thinks that BV should be used without any other treatment -- herbs,abx, any other drug. They say they think the drugs actually protect Lyme and encourage persisters and biofilm which just makes it harder to get rid of.
Just sayin. I've been off abx on BVT only for about three weeks now and it's HARD not to do more.
Posted by bluelyme (Member # 47170) on :
Hmm...ya ..rife guy is saying the same ...i just cant rely on monotherapy.. my life and others are on the line ...
micheal- for taps and sets which give less venom. I remove the stinger with fine tweezers ,so i can use on places like gums and sternum and lymph
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jordana: You hold them by the thorax with long bent nose tweezers.
What are some bee stings compared to hell some people have to endure?
Posted by Judie (Member # 38323) on :
There are healthy people that will die if they are stung by a bee.
There are definitely legitimate concerns for this kind of therapy.
This is a scary treatment if your body is very reactive.
I've been reading that it can take 2 or 3 years for a Lyme patient to recover and get benefits.
Also some people discontinue treatment because the sting is too painful.
I remember awhile back when botox was being tauted for it's health benefits.
Time will tell on BVT since it's long treatment plan.
Posted by bluelyme (Member # 47170) on :
Aint for the faint of heart ....but my friend said pick your poison...seeing some benifits after 9 months ..does mess with histamines and activated white blood cells ...upon microscopy the ketes are out of blood stream and inside rbc ..
trying teasle and h202 to lure and lyse...
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
That statement is (at best) highly overstated and open to major misinterpretation regarding the practicalities involved. -
Posted by TNT (Member # 42349) on :
quote:Originally posted by Keebler: - Posted by Jordana:
That statement is (at best) highly overstated and open to major misinterpretation regarding the practicalities involved. -
Actually, there is a study from Rocky Mountain Labs (the one Willy Burgdorfer worked and retired at) that validates the efficacy of bee venom against Bb.
And, there is literature (not from Rocky Mountain lab) on the (strong) efficacy of bee venom against apicomplexans (Babesia).
Not so much about viruses, and practically none about its efficacy against Bartonella, except the literature involving bee venom and gram-negative and gram-positive bacteria. It is potent against gram-positive bacteria.
Also, is pretty potent against l-forms.
More potent than Fluconazole against fungus!
And, very potent against biofilm!
I don't have the sources for all that info handy, but this is what I found in the medical literature prior to commencing BVT myself.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Even doxy kills Bb !!
Even though you take it, and it doesn't always solve the Bb infection.
Or, even though you take it for long, and in fact, it RARELY solves the Bb infection.
But it still kills Bb!
I do think there are MANY alternatives to kill Bb.
Bee venom is an old treatment used by so many people (like now Rife is becoming an 'old' treatment).
As for dangers, I do agree.
Anything that can give you anaphylactic shock is dangerous.
Such as strawberries, shrimps or peanuts. These are all in the red list in the same level as bee venom!
Bee venom should be as dangerous as strawberries, if you react badly to them.
However, one of the strongest supporters of bee venom therapy was a lady who was very allergic to bee stings, UNTIL she got bitten by HUNDREDS of bees at once, accidentally.
Then not only her bee allergy healed (she didn't die of anaphylactic shock), BUT her lyme got so much better, she became a bee venom advocate.
This bee episode took her off wheel chair and gave back part of her life. Since then, she's one of the advocates for the bee venom therapy.
I didn't say it healed her lyme, but that it helped her.
So, nothing is written in stone! Not even anaphylactic shocks!
OF COURSE, like doxy, amoxy and all the abx people take, bee venom may not be seen as MONOTHERAPY.
With lyme, monotherapy works only for the luckiest people. Like doxy used to work in the past.
I wouldn't discard bee venom, specially if you have easy access to bees.
I have a friend who keeps bees for years, and she says it's not too difficult. She keeps them only for the honey.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Actually in my BVT group, BVT monotherapy is encouraged. People have seen much better results with just BVT and detox than a lot of complicated schemes.
The reasoning is that any antibiotic will teach the Lyme to hide; strong and antimicrobial herbs will do the same thing. Bee venom kills Lyme but Lyme has no defense against it.
The other thing BVT can do is modulate the immune system. Bee venom is one of the most powerful anti-inflammatories in existence and modulates the cytokines including the CXC ones that are elevated in "post treatment lyme disease syndrome."
I've been doing BVT ONLY plus some detox things for one month. It was a hard choice to make; I had just talked to a Lyme doc who wanted me on Rifampin and Minocycline and I knew there was no way I could do that plus BVT. No way.
It was hard because I was getting addicted to herxing. When I felt unbelievably, crazily bad on abx I knew it was "working"and killing the bugs and that made me feel like I was achieving something.
But given the endless, really endless stories about people simply not getting better, getting off antibiotics and relapsing a hundred times worse, dying, spending a million dollars on more and more powerful abx...compared to the peaceful and awed claims by people who got better from BVT and NEVER relapsed or thought about Lyme again -- this is what I decided.
Blue my group would think that the abx were forcing Lyme into the rbc's but if that is case possibly (most likely) your spleen. BVT is the only therapy that has been anecdotally but medically verified to strip out Lyme from the spleen, bone marrow and the brain.
I don't think anyone can seriously claim that bee venom is more dangerous than stuff like rifampin, vancomycin, or levaquin. People who take that stuff don't get better always either.
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
Ellie runs your group? What about blood parasites...? I was just chewing what brussels said mixing up some houttynia and pondering mortality. ..
i sit holding this red pill...days i dont infuse ..my bones hurt ...these bugs have messed me up bad... i just got twitching to slow down ...
I got toxo/proto and this livedo says my circulation aint right ...heparin helps but can cause thrombocytopenia too..my platelets are low and stings are bruising lots ... i will friggin tattoo myself if it stops the wasting
what about the c . pneumonia or mycoplasm? I gotta get ahead of this bart ...venom did nothing for my staph? Oh geez crazy cat lady syndrome again..
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
Ellie runs the group. If you look at the link I sent you you can search the files for all such answers. Lots of beeks there too.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Jordana, I'm so glad to know people can still heal with one therapy.
That bee venom works better as monotherapy than when combined.
My photon + nosode also worked better as monotherapy against borrelia than when combined (I never used other killers while on photons).
But what I wanted to say is that there are other problems too, that must be addressed (many times, but probably not always?).
It's not only the infection, for most people (but heavy metals, cavitations, parasites, electrosmog, whatever...)
I'm glad that some people never got lyme back just with Bee venom. Here in Germany, it was a known therapy, but I'm pretty sure there are many people not totally healed.
When people say it takes 3 years to heal from lyme. What are 3 years for chronic lyme?
When I got better after 4 full years of treatment, my lyme doctor said he couldn't believe how FAST I got better.
I wanted to punch his face: I said, it was 4 years of non-stop treatment, even during the night many times I had to branched to electrodees!
He said that many people much healthier than me was are STILL fighting lyme for much, much longer. 4 years is little, if he considers from where I started.
I re-read the story of the lady who was supposed to die of anaphylactic shock above. Now she is healed, she said.
The time I read her story years ago, she was still recovering from lyme, still doing bee stings.
She said, as far as I understood in the article above, that she is also lyme free today.
Dr. K. used to do that in the past, but then it got harder to do it (I don't remember why, forbidding legislation, or so...)
I'm crossing my fingers for you guys! Just let us know. What I did was not monotherapy in the long term (loads of therapies, treatments), but in short term (like photons + nosodes), yes, it was monotherapy.
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
I think Dr. K brought it from Germany and started to use it but he lost his license in New Mexico for doing it. Since he lost his license here people stopped.
I know it was very big in the early 2000s in Europe but it's possible people did not do it long enough. BVT as this woman advocates takes two to three years to reach remission. That's a long time for anyone and I'm sure lots of people got tired, frustrated, tempted to move on before then. And there could be other things that complicate a person's healing like you said.
It's the same as any Lyme treatment though. All of it takes a long, long time.
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
don posted this on the vid ..honey bees have bartonella?
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
Maybe. But they also kill Bartonella.
Posted by bluelyme (Member # 47170) on :
Your conviction is inspiring , i know this modality is one of the many on my way to healing , (or not dying )
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
OMG Jordana, is this lady in the video who picks the bees and stings them on people actually Ellie Lobel, the woman from the story who was almost dead from lyme???
If yes, she looks pretty healthy! Very healthy even!
I wonder for how long will she be able to do such therapies without being prosecuted for doing 'quack' therapies... ------------------
On the 3 year time of treatment: when one starts BVT, if people feel better, there is no problem at all that it lasts 1, 2, 3 years.
I mean, how many months people wait to see slight improvements in lyme with many therapies?
for me, I didn't know how long it was going to take me to heal from lyme.
As soon as I started feeling better, slowly better, I didn't care anymore how long I was going to be treating.
It's the 'feeling crap' while treating that is disappointing, I find.
If you feel clear improvements while treating, you go on treating.
At least, that was my case. As long as I could live great part of my days well, I didn't care to keep treating.
thanks for posting these videos. Very informative!!
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
. Yes that's Ellie Lobel in the videos, and she has enough energy for 30 people.
She says: NO other therapy but BVT at ALL. She's fanatic on that point because she says it just slows healing down. But it's a specific protocol with no cheating. 3 times a week, no more no less, ten stings, no more no less, and only on the spine, nowhere else.
She's doing something called the "bee bus mission" right now, going all around the country talking about bee venom for Lyme. It's all on donations, she's selling nothing.
A couple months ago she posted a pic of herself flying -- like she was actually piloting -- an airplane over New York City, lol.
Posted by TNT (Member # 42349) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jordana: Maybe. But they also kill Bartonella.
I don't think there is literature to support that yet....
If there is, I would sure like to see it!
Even one study from a reputable source is good enough for me. It would be nice if Sapi would have some info about it, but, I realize her lab is working only with Bb and bee venom.
As I said earlier, bee venom is a potent anti-microbial for most pathogens, but there is little evidence to support its killing effects on bartonella specifically.
I remember Ellie Lobel mentioning she had a bad case of Babesia, but I'm not sure about Bart. Even if she did, one person's experience is not enough to build a case for BVT against bartonella. But, knowing if she was infected would be helpful anecdotal info at least.
When I started BVT, I asked another forum that had more experience with BVT if bee venom killed Bart, and I got basically no answers about it.
So, I'm not saying that personal experience is not helpful info, it's just that I'm really interested in literature about it.
Posted by TNT (Member # 42349) on :
Preliminary reports from Sapi's lab agrees with the diminished loads of borrelia that we are seeing under our scopes.
What we are seeing under the scope is that it seems BVT is killing the ketes in the plasma, and/or, pushing them into the cells. Either way, it is definitely lessening the load.
My guess is that it indeed does kill those in the plasma, and over 2-3 years time will eventually rid the body of enough to bring the body into health.
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
Most people in the group who've been multiply infected ( including one or two in wheelchairs and on IVIG) and are veteran stingers are much better now;though some are stinging longer because of heart conditions, etc.
So one of two things is happening. Either the BV is getting rid of the lyme and regulating the immune system so that it can clear the rest on its own, or it's killing it directly. But people with Bart and Lyme are getting completely well.
Posted by bluelyme (Member # 47170) on :
Tnt i said it once and will say it again you are the bomb! Jordana you aint shabby either ..
i feel i got gains only after adding roceph ,zith and llmd said this will hit bart some ..gunna try extra houttynia or rifampin?
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
TNT...what preliminary reports are you referring to?
Blue I don't know if you saw my other thread but I just decided to go on a little detour here from my commitment to BVT monotherapy. I'm worried about the ehrlichia. In dogs they call it "doggie AIDS" and obviously it is still not gone; I am not sure if BVT hits it or not.
Bart is different. If you manage to regulate your immune system the immune system has ways to combat it. Untreated chronic ehrlichia is not self-clearing even without the Lyme.
So I'm going to do the 4 months of rif, mino plus BVT. What I've got going on in my kitchen is houttuynia, csa, pinella, burbur and pekana detox; ashwaghanda, salvia, milk thistle to protect the liver.
This about the same protocol that Dr R Wash prescribed for supposed Bart.
Posted by bluelyme (Member # 47170) on :
Interesting as i have been bitten by dogs ? And have a wasting syndrome . Sounds like a solid plan...whats your herbal dosing on the hootie?
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
I thought about that when I was reading the ehrlichia symptom list. It just wrecks the immune system; makes it easy for just about anything to take root.
Houttuynia -- 30 drops of Montana Farmacy tincture, twice a day.
Posted by susank (Member # 22150) on :
Jordana - I was thinking about this post of yours. Patients on IVIG and doing BVT? You are sure of that? I would think that would be a bad mix. Antibodies from so many doners - perhaps some have BV allergies? How would that work? BV antibodies in IVIG? Is that even possible? IgG antibodies?
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
No susan, they went off of IVIG to do BVT. You're right, I don't think the two would mix. But the one woman I know who's gone off IVIG to do BVT doesn't need IVIG anymore.
Posted by bluelyme (Member # 47170) on :
Bump for cotton we need a bvt page like mhbot and microscopy,rife and spirocheatal compounds have ?
I at 1 yr 4 month with bvt and throwing every else in the book at it ...many sympoms are relieved ..even worked a bit and did 9 holes
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
don't forget people like me who are highly allergic to bees, wasps, asps, yellow jackets, etc, all in that family. I could never do this.
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