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Posted by sammy (Member # 13952) on :
***Please read the whole post before responding and let's be respectful of each other's opinion's, OK.***

What if we lived in a world where vaccines either:
- Were not accessible or,
- No longer existed or
- Were not effective?

We take it for granted that we live in a society with HERD IMMUNITY to some of what used to be the most feared diseases on earth!

Because of herd immunity, these infections are now found primarily in developing countries, medical textbooks, and in the memories of our elders.

When people stop getting vaccines for various reasons, our most valuable herd immunity is weakened.

We, as a community, will or would be susceptible to all kinds of vaccine preventable illnesses.

Everyone forgets that diseases like Polio, MMR, Measles, Mumps, Rubella & Diphtheria, etc... regularly killed all kinds of people (especially babies & children). That these diseases would sweep through communities killing great numbers of children.

Vaccine preventable diseases are not so far from America, just a plane ride away from the mountains of Ecuador, the plains of Africa, the yurts of Mongolia...

People from all over the world are continuously entering America for school, work, vacation...

Think about it!
Posted by susank (Member # 22150) on :
Sammy - you are so right.

Vaccines protect us from horrible diseases.
I just wish they could be made safer somehow.

Even before being Dx'd with an immune deficiency I had an interest in immunology.

Was always fascinated by the discovery that milk maids that had had cowpox were immune to smallpox - which led to "immunizations".

They had a "crude" method of doing the vaccinations - but perhaps not so crude after all.
No additives or preservatives - just "the good stuff".
Posted by SickSam (Member # 45330) on :
Yes, I have thought the exact same Sammy. Vaccines can definitely be made safer, but given the choice between polio or a vaccine, I'd choose the vaccine.

I do know vaccines hurt some people, and I hope and pray their safety will improve. I cringe every time one of our kids gets a vaccine, but I'm glad that because of vaccines they don't have to worry about diseases like polio anymore.

My aunt, who was and incredible, amazing woman, passed away almost 3 years ago. She had polio as a child and spent basically her entire life in a wheelchair.

My grandma told me once how horrible it was to sit in a hospital and watch her baby girl's muscles collapsing and not be able to do anything about it. It was a helpless feeling.

My aunt was fortunate. Even though she couldn't use her legs she still had feeling in them, so if one were being bitten by a bug or on fire she would be able to tell. She said many people who got polio were worse off than her.

She made it to her sixties, but we lost her due to pulmonary hypertension, which was a complication of polio. Her whole life her O2 saturation stayed in the 80s, because polio had weakened her diaphragm. I've had dreams where I saw her walking. Those were incredible. We were very close, she was very special to me.

So yeah, the vaccine debate is near and dear to my heart. I am very thankful there is no more polio. I do hope vaccine safety can improve though.

[ 01-16-2017, 01:19 AM: Message edited by: SickSam ]
Posted by Christopher J (Member # 46401) on :
I purposely don't think of things at an overly macro level because quite honestly, we don't know, I dont like to speculate, and I find it a useless pursuit. The real question for me is as an individual is 'Am I going to vaccinate me or my family with what they got out there now?' And thats a hell no. Tincups extensive posts and my own reading on this topic make that abundantly clear.
Posted by SickSam (Member # 45330) on :
Christopher, that might be the perfect decision for you and your family, I totally support anyone's personal decision. I do believe God will guide each of us on what's right for our bodies if we ask Him. For some that may be vaccinating, for others maybe it's avoiding vaccines like the plague. We don't know who may be susceptible to vaccine damage.

I would encourage you to also research the diseases vaccines have prevented also, in addition to your research on vaccines. Many of the diseases are horrible, I've seen the after-effects of them first hand.

Vaccines have removed these diseases from the US population, there's no doubt. We're already seeing outbreaks of some of these diseases again in the community of individuals that have decided not to vaccinate.

Again, I'm not saying everyone should vaccinate. I respect anyone who chooses not to 100%. I just like to look at both sides of any situation before making a decision on anything.

If polio had not touched my family, and I had not seen the effects of polio first-hand, I'm not sure I would have chosen to vaccinate my kids.

These diseases are still lurking around, we know that because of the outbreaks in the unvaccinated population in recent years. If everyone in the US suddenly stopped vaccinating, no doubt these diseases would make a huge comeback and be devastating.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
They need to CLEAN up the vaccines ASAP! They are giving TOO MANY to our children!!!!

It's horrible!

I will not take another vaccine until things change.

Vaccines began as something GOOD and now for PROFIT, all has changed.
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
The flu vaccine is why I never got over Lyme Disease.

I got bit in April of 2003 and by November I was feeling fine. Then I had my one and only flu shot of my life in December of 2013.

All the Lyme symptoms plus more came roaring back and I have never fully recovered. Within a few days of the vaccine I started falling down with mild seizures.

No way will I ever get another vaccine. This was not coincidence. This was cause and effect.

If I had young children I would probably choose to give them some vaccines, but not all that are recommended and not at fast pace.

But for me--no more.
Posted by Rhiagel (Member # 21880) on :
No children born with borrelia and/or co-infections should be given vaccines, especially the MMR.
Posted by sammy (Member # 13952) on :
Thanks to all who have read and shared their honest opinions and thoughts.

If I understand correctly, that is one of the purposes for having LN here for those of us with Lyme. Sometimes it's just hard to voice differing opinions or thoughts side by side in one post...
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
35,000 soldiers have died due to adverse effects from the anthrax vaccine. -from the docu-series "Vaccines Revealed"
Posted by Badtick (Member # 9794) on :
I was disabled by a vaccine, so I guess I am biased..
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Did you know that the CDC owns 20 patents on vaccines?
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Doctors, governments and pharma are happy when most of the population is vaccinated.

Doctors: because they believe, like Sammy, that vaccines eradicate disease, the same way they believed that antibiotics would eradicate infections.

the problem is that polio virus is STILL much with us, despite what the WHO is saying and the whole brain wash about polio eradication.

It came down from the state acute to the CHRONIC state, causing all sorts of immune problems.

Google POST POLIO SYNDROME and make your own ideas.

Have you heard about POST LYME SYNDROME??

That doctors believe is NO LONGER active LYME but just left overs of Borrelia? It's all-in-your-head story?

12 years ago, when I got bitten by a fresh tick, got the bullseye rash but no other lyme symptoms, then got 2 weeks of doxy, ...

... then finally fell sick with extreme debilitating lyme symptoms, well, the doctors in Switzerland told me I had POST LYME DISEASE!!!

I asked him: how can I have post-lyme disease if ALL SYMPTOMS I'm having are NEW to me?

What about post-polio-snydrome??
Does it ring the bell for you guys?


This article speaks of scientific research on POLIO VIRUSES.

CFS? = polio
MS = polio
Coxsackie virus = cause polio like disease
enteroviruses = mutant of polio virus

Dr. Bruno says:

"Despite the differences between poliomyelitis and CFS, an association with the polio virus was suggested by the fact that, ...

...of the more than one dozen CFS outbreaks before the introduction of the Salk vaccine, nine occurred during or immediately after outbreaks of polio,

... and several involved hospital staff who cared for polio patients" (Annals, NY Academy of Sciences, 1995).

The argument about whether enterovirus infection persists over many years is still raging.

Brussels: Do you guys with lyme think you STILL got persistent Borrelia??
How could that be if it is eradicated with 2 weeks of doxy?

In her 1995 review of the proceedings of the 1994 Post-Polio Conference, ...

...Dr. Dowsett draws attention to new evidence of persistent enterovirus infection in the central nervous system of Post-Polio patients.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
But it can be observed through case histories that just as we see Post-Polio Syndrome 30 years after initial infection, so we are seeing "Post-CFS" as well.

The Nightingale Research Foundation in Ottawa proposes that in fact they are one and the same condition-others believe they may be variations of each other.


What has arisen is "two new diseases with different names, with different degrees of acceptance and exactly the same set of symptoms at exactly the same time. ¨

It is unrealistic to believe that we are dealing with two different disease processes and two different causes," the researchers concluded.

A paper investigating the epidemiological aspects of CFS has revealed further convincing parallels between the behavior of this disease and polio.

It describes the onset of CFS as mainly being ushered in by a "minor illness" which has "recently been described as a flu-like illness.",

The researchers continue: ". . in reality it is identical to and has all of the features and variability of the 'minor illness' of missed or abortive poliomyelitis."

CFS, or Atypical Polio, is such a serious and devastatingly debilitating multisystem malfunction leading to such profound weakness in some children ...

...that they are unable to speak and have to be tube-fed.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Am I biased?

I certainly am.

Will I vaccinate my child ever again?

No way.

Polio disappeared from the planet according to the WHO and doctors.

They just have other chronic incurable syndromes to treat today, such as POST lyme disease!
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :

Paper suggesting there MAY be active viruses in POST POLIO.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
But even uncontaminated Polio vaccines are of doubtful efficacy in protecting against viral infections and chronic disease.

Enteroviruses have been shown to be a major factor in Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/ Chronic Fatigue Syndrome by John Richardson who studied more than 4000 patients over a 50 year period.

Vaccination against polio provides protection against only 3 strains of polio leaving no protection against the other 70 or so enteroviruses- coxsackie, echo and others.

These viruses have a range of pathological effects on the central nervous system, the cardiovascular system, and endocrine and exocrine glands.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :

This research paper describes how a vaccinated person have been EXCRETING vaccine derived polio virus that is extremely virulent for 28 years AFTER vaccination.

You get one vaccine, then you may contaminate EVERYBODY around you for MANY MANY YEARS!!!

Here, we describe an individual who has been excreting type 2 vaccine-derived poliovirus for twenty eight years as estimated by the molecular clock established with VP1 capsid gene nucleotide sequences of serial isolates.

This represents by far the longest period of excretion described from such a patient who is the only identified individual known to be excreting highly evolved vaccine-derived poliovirus at present.

Using a range of in vivo and in vitro assays we show that the viruses are very virulent, antigenically drifted and excreted at high titre suggesting that such chronic excreters pose an obvious risk to the eradication programme.

Where is the eradication?
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Originally posted by Brussels:

You get one vaccine, then you may contaminate EVERYBODY around you for MANY MANY YEARS!!!

I think that happens with ALL vaccines. JMHO.
Posted by Catgirl (Member # 31149) on :
Originally posted by Lymetoo:
Did you know that the CDC owns 20 patents on vaccines?

That explains it. I'm with you Lymetoo, Christopher and all who say no way.
Posted by Catgirl (Member # 31149) on :
Originally posted by Brussels:

This research paper describes how a vaccinated person have been EXCRETING vaccine derived polio virus that is extremely virulent for 28 years AFTER vaccination.

You get one vaccine, then you may contaminate EVERYBODY around you for MANY MANY YEARS!!!

Here, we describe an individual who has been excreting type 2 vaccine-derived poliovirus for twenty eight years as estimated by the molecular clock established with VP1 capsid gene nucleotide sequences of serial isolates.

This represents by far the longest period of excretion described from such a patient who is the only identified individual known to be excreting highly evolved vaccine-derived poliovirus at present.

Using a range of in vivo and in vitro assays we show that the viruses are very virulent, antigenically drifted and excreted at high titre suggesting that such chronic excreters pose an obvious risk to the eradication programme.

Where is the eradication?

This is scary!
Posted by SickSam (Member # 45330) on :
That report was from using the oral live polio vaccine, which just sounds like a horrible idea to me.

Brussels, I'm with you in believing these viruses are still lurking around in the wild. So that brings us back to sammy's original question (that we've kinda veered from, sorry Sammy):

What would happen if there were suddenly no more vaccines? Don't you all think the creation of SAFE vaccines is crucial to prevent outbreaks of these devastating infections?

[ 01-18-2017, 12:17 AM: Message edited by: SickSam ]
Posted by SickSam (Member # 45330) on :

If polio vaccines disappeared, we would eventually have large disease outbreaks causing permanent paralysis and death.
Posted by sammy (Member # 13952) on :
Interesting case study Brussels.

The man was from the UK and was given the oral live polio vaccine as part of his childhood vaccinations.

Oral Polio Vaccine is NOT used in the USA.

It is a live attenuated vaccine meaning that it is weakened and disarmed and unable to cause infection in **healthy people**.

At age 7 they discovered that the man had Common Variable Immune Deficiency. So he should never have had the oral live polio vaccine.

There are only a few live attenuated vaccines & people with Immune deficiencies should not get these: Oral Polio, MMR, Varicella, Yellow Fever, & Rotavirus.

Here in America, we're use only IPV the Inactivated Polio Vaccine. It is given as a shot individually or in a combo with other age appropriate vaccines.
Posted by sammy (Member # 13952) on :
For a personal perspective, my grandma lost young siblings to both pertussis and Diphtheria outbreaks.

Her parents were farmers. Healthy people that typically lived well into their upper 90's.

Before vaccines, infections would sweep through communities and wipe out large numbers of children. This is how my grandma tells it.

She remembers watching helplessly as 2 babies died from separate illnesses with cough and fever.

She also tried to nurse her younger siblings when they fell ill. Unfortunately, she saw 2 toddlers pass away.

My grandma left the house and was married very young.

I think that life was hard for her.
Posted by SickSam (Member # 45330) on :
So sorry for your family's hardship and loss from these diseases Sammy. ): My grandma told me similar stories about my aunt having polio.

Thankfully my aunt survived, and I had the wonderful privilege of getting to know that very special lady, but she was paralyzed from the disease.

Others of you are old enough to know someone who suffered from these diseases, right? I'm 30, and I got to spend 28 special years with a polio survivor.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
Current day considerations include all the ingredients, the sheer number / time table, etc. To put in one's study file folder for easy reference:;f=1;t=131625;p=0

VACCINE INGREDIENTS - Informational Links set
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
That this is on a patch - and not a liquid - gets away from many of the ingredients issues. Wonder how his work is going now.

Scroll down to see:

TED Global 2013 Video 13:50

A needle-free vaccine patch that's safer and way cheaper
Posted by sammy (Member # 13952) on :
Before I fell ill with Lyme, I had the opportunity to travel extensively and do medical missions.

It was wonderful work, certainly eye opening for a young person raised in America.

One of the countries and areas that we spent time in was the remote mountains of Ecuador. For anyone familiar, it was over a 4 hour ride up from Riobamba onto dirt roads.

We set up our clinic at the site of the area's small church. People heard about our arrival and walked for days to come see us.

The main health problems that we saw were chronic and acute respiratory issues, parasites & arthritis. We saw a whole myriad of diseases and disorders though.

What truly broke my heart was to learn that the community lost almost all of their children to a terrible measles outbreak that had swept through all the families.

Sadly, I got to see a first hand a case of measles in an adolescent girl. Since she still had the rash, we had the opportunity to educate the community on measures to try to prevent infection spread among family members and amoung community members.

Here in America, some people take vaccines for granted. They forget what it was like before we had the vaccines here.
Posted by sammy (Member # 13952) on :
A vaccine patch would be nice.

Babies naturally put everything in their mouth anyways so the patch would go right along with nature.

They say babies are constantly putting trillions of bacteria in their mouths at any on time, whether that be their favorite toy from the floor or their hand taken right off the grocery cart...

Immune system systems are elegantly built. They can handle those trillions of bacteria. So don't you think they can handle a few vaccines given at the same time?
Posted by Dekrator48 (Member # 18239) on :
To get the big picture about vaccines, I encourage people to watch a docu-series such as "Vaccines Revealed".

There is way too much evidence of corruption, changed studies to meet the desires of the CDC officials, etc, to just believe what the CDC says about vaccines.

It was actually sanitation, clean water, etc that really helped prevent these diseases.

Another consideration is that supportive medical interventions are much better than they were many years ago when people became ill. Now we can give high dose vitamin C and many other things that provide better outcomes. Equipment is much better also.

If immunity does occur due to a vaccine, it does not last nearly as long as if one gets chicken pox for example, and recovers.

Many people are developing shingles because they are no longer exposed to people with chicken pox which served as a natural immune booster. Their immunity is weakened and they develop shingles.

Vaccines need to be revised to become safe, instead of containing toxic heavy metals and lots of other toxins.

2 parts per billion is the EPA's acceptable limit of mercury in drinking water. 200 parts per billion of mercury is the level of liquid classified as hazardous waste, 50,000 parts per billion is the concentration of mercury in most thimerosal containing vaccines!

The vaccine schedule is out of hand and pharmaceutical companies have no liability at all for any damage or death that they cause.

I liken it to trying to explain the difficulty with Lyme disease. Many people will not believe you if you tell them about the controversy and that the CDC's info is wrong.

It is all very complex, but the 9 part docu-series I am watching does an excellent job at revealing the corruption, collusion, greed and explaining why most vaccines aren't really needed.

It's impossible to ignore the many stories from people who have been damaged by vaccines.

It is still running if you want to watch any remaining episodes.

You may also be able to find clips on youtube. Robert F Kennedy Jr gave an amazing interview in one episode.

I am not anti-vaccine, but vaccines must be safe and effective, and we are not there....and that is coming from an RN who used to be the "flu shot nurse" at one time.

[ 01-18-2017, 09:46 PM: Message edited by: Dekrator48 ]
Posted by SickSam (Member # 45330) on :
I agree that vaccines aren't totally safe, that some aren't effective, and that some should never be considered whatsoever.

Wouldn't you all say the polio vaccine was/is effective though (although possibly not totally safe)? That maybe the polio vaccine is at least the lesser of two evils? I truly am curious what y'alls thoughts are on this.

As horrible as Lyme is, I think I'd rather fight Lyme than polio.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Polio has NOT been eradicated, but just CHANGED to chronic diseases like CFS, MS, chronic enterovirus infections...

Guys with POST POLIO SYNDROME are MEANT to be POLIOVIRUS FREE, the SAME WAY that we, CHRONIC LYME sufferers are said to have NO BORRELIA!

What the CDC says is not always true, not only for lyme, unfortunately.

Lyme is a DIFFICULT disease to get and EASY TO TREAT.

After 2 weeks of doxy, the person is FREE from LYME DISEASE by the CDC!!!

There is no CHRONIC lyme disease... much as there is no CHRONIC POLIO DISEASE!!!

by the CDC!

Is polio eradicated by the easy method vaccine?

Is there chronic polio?

Is lyme easily killed by the easy method antibiotic?

Is there chronic lyme??? [bonk]


Dr. K. says: most vaccines are good for the community, but bad for the individual.

That is WHY it is hard to decide: good for the community (avoiding probably mass deaths),...

... but bad for the individual, as it damages the immune system, the nervous system, detox systems, brains, and leads to chronic diseases.

So doctors say: "Vaccinate, it's better!"

Not better for you, but better for the herd!!
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
My own experience with lyme and vaccines:

after years suffering lyme disease (many acute bites on top of chronic lyme), I was very weak, losing teeth from root infections, ...

... being literally covered with skin candida, joint candida...

... then I started feeling even more sick.

My joints were in such a pain, I knew I had some other ACUTE infection there.

I stopped to walk again, to eat, too weak, feeling my body being eaten up from inside out.

My fingers became all colors, until some joints started to open. And white smelly liquids started to come out (gross, but true).

It got so bad that at a certain point, I saw my cartilage in the worst finger!

What was that?

Tuberculosis of the joints!

Have you ever heard of it? I never had.
It does exist and it can be very handicapping, like TB of the lungs!

I started anbibiotics, as no herbs, no microcurrent, no rife, no homeopathic thing worked.

After a course of antibiotics, I was as bad as the starting point.

I thought my lifetime was getting again closer to an end.

I also used all homeopathic nosodes for tuberculosis I had. Nothing changed much.

One day, I decided to test a set of nosodes, and found out I tested energetically positive for TB VACCINE nosode!!

I was born in Brazil, and I remember having taken the oral TB vaccine at the 4th year of primary school.

It was called the BCG!

Just ONE treatment with that BCG nosode solved my joint-tuberculosis problem!!!

That single nosode did what nothing else could do!
Not even drugs!

I continued to take the BCG nosode though, for I was fearing death, but since that first contact with the BCG nosode, my skin started to close, ...

... my joints started to be less swollen, I regained force and came back to my previous condition: chronic lyme ONLY!

That BCG tuberculosis strain remained dormant in my body and reactivated due to severe fatigue and chronic lyme almost EXACTLY 30 YEARS AFTER!

(vaccine was taken in 1977, my TB episode was about 2007).

If I hadn't found that BCG homeopathic nosode, I think I wouldn't be here.

I would have very probably died of BCG strain Tuberculosis 30 years after inoculation!

That is what vaccines do individuals.

You can bet my case wouldn't be part of the statistics of BCG vaccine damage.

As much as you can bet, none of us goes in ANY GRAPHICAL STATISTIC of lyme diseases. Not in the CDC graphs.

We are statistically non-existent!
Beware the graphs.
Posted by SickSam (Member # 45330) on :
I'm truly sorry you were hurt by a vaccine Brussels. ): I understand your anger towards them. My life has been completely ruined by prednisone, I fear I'm near death at this point actually. I hate prednisone as much as you hate vaccines and tell everyone I know about its dangers.

But as much as I hate it, since its almost killed me and took everything away from me, there's no way I could turn a blind eye to the many lives prednisone has saved. The problem comes with the ignorant misuse of prednisone, which is what happened to me.

The same seems to be true for vaccines. I understand that many people hate them because of the damage they've caused (hey, even I hate them because of what ive seen happen to other people), but how can we ignore the many lives that have been saved by the important ones?

What I've personally seen of post-polio syndrome is extremely different from CFS, MS, etc. My aunt essentially died of "post-polio syndrome". I watched what it did to her body. It was nothing like these other diseases.

Yes, I believe the polio virus still lived in her and continued to cause damage. Yes, I believe the polio virus is still around. But it is not causing permanent, continued paralysis and death like it used to.

Forget the CDC and their graphs. I don't trust them any more than anyone else here does. Looking at history, how can anyone not conclude that currently our best protection against polio's devastating effects is the imperfect polio vaccine? I wish there were something better, but it doesn't look like there is at this point in time.

I think we're saying the same things actually:

1) Vaccines can be terribly harmful.
2) Vaccines have probably prevented mass deaths and numerous paralyses.
3) The CDC doesn't have a clue how these diseases really work.
4) The polio virus is still lurking around.

Would you agree?

Again, I am sincerely and extremely interested in everyone's views, and hope we can continue a calm, respectful conversation, and I'm truly sorry that many of us (including me) have been crippled by the pharmaceutical industry in one way or another.
Posted by Dekrator48 (Member # 18239) on :
If anyone would like to view the amazing docu-series, "Vaccines Revealed", it has been extended through the weekend of January 22, 2017.

You can sign up easily in the link with your email address.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Dear Sam, we're all in the same boat, for sure.

Post polio syndrome might be simply, not POST polio, but chronic polio.

Similar to lyme: acute lyme, chronic lyme, they are a bit different too, in their manifestation.

Both mean the body is STILL dealing with infection, though (my opinion).

As for polio, the polio-vaccine solved your grandma problem??

Suppose there there was, the virus still active in her, in chronic form: the vaccine THEORETICALLY should have 'eliminated' it, right?

But it didn't.

Of course, if you take the official view that post-polio is not active infection, but just collateral damage, the vaccine can't do anything anyway.

But I doubt that a virus can be eliminated, not with vaccines. Just because a virus is not even alive (properly...). It is simply a molecule, a protein.

With or without vaccines, we will still deal with polioviruses or enterovirusese.

From all vaccines, my homeopathic doctor told me: only tetanus is the one he would still take.

Reason? It has no pathogen inside, but it is an anti-toxin vaccine (nothing to do with viruses, bacteria).

I do think we are playing God with nature. That we only think WE-WE must survive, only WE-WE must colonize this planet, win ALL diseases.

Diseases are in fact PART of EVOLUTION.

Viruses, bacteria, protozoan, fungi, they all play part in evolution of species.

In my very personal opinion, we thought we had won the war against infections when vaccines were invented.

It was wrong. Vaccines will help just with a few diseases.

Then came antibiotics.

We then thought: now WE-WE won against MOST other infectious diseases!

Just google to see how people thought in the past: infectious diseases will be soon past history!!!

Wrong again.

See with what we are all dealing: candida, bart, borrelia, babesia, mycoplasma, herpes, ehrlichia, malaria, tuberculosis, morgelons, etc etc.

But we still are thinking: WE-WE will find a definitive solution, manipulating our genes, doing stem cell therapy, ...

...whatever WE-WE can dream about, to still conquer the planet, win above all other species...

The problem is that most advanced species are getting more sick, including fruit trees, useful bees, mammals.

Our planet is being now filled with less developed critters (read Dr. K's article on Connie's book for free): pathogenic viruses, pathogenic bacteria, etc.

The oceans are filled with seaweeds, jelly fish, all sort of prehistoric creatures coming back in great amount.

Even krills are disappearing! It's a MASS extinction in our oceans.

Why is there such a rise on pathogenic microscopic critters??

To 'decompose' higher species back to smaller particles, back to the soil, nature...

They are helping us to become simple particles of proteins, fat, minerals, back to the earth.

WE-WE still dream we can win against those TRILLIONS of invisible pathogens, with more antibiotics, genetic therapies, pesticides, vaccines, whatever.

But vaccines contribute to stop evolution.

Mass disease is the way nature creates ecological balance.

If there are too many of us, humans, unfortunately there will be disease, death, so that we become in ecological balance with other species.

We need them, they need us.

but the situation is very unfair to other species.

We made other species our slaves: we eat them, we modify their genes, we use pesticides to kill them, pollute water / food / soil for all other species.

And we're still not happy. We need our cell phones, our video games, our new cars, computers, cosmetics, films, whatever.

So we dig further, use the planet resources until we find nothing more, dump garbage all over, damn the other species, plants, bees, trees, whatever.

We still want more: to win over nature, to win evolution, to manipulate our MILLION year long immune system (that developed within species since the time we were only molecules of proteins, like viruses), ... downgrade all other species so that only WE-WE live here.

Vaccines save thousands for a short time (in evolution, it is a ridiculous short time).

But they weaken the WHOLE mankind genetic pool!!!

Long term, vaccines only help our mass extinction, as a species.

They may save thousands in a decade, or two decades, but it will has ALREADY contributed to weaken all of the 8 billion of us, as a species, for the rest of the time.

And that in less than 100 years!!

It may sound 'good' to save a few thousands today.

But looking from far, just see what we ALL CHRONIC INFECTIOUS sufferers are dealing with.

That is my very personal view, of course.

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