I just would like to remind that being called 'lazy', boring, uninteresting, with lack of initiative, lack of sense of humor is one of the worst things during illness.
We all go through accusations, unfortunately. Even by the nicest people.
the problem is that we start to believe we are lazy, that we lack initiative, and feel GUILTY.
At least, I did.
I just fell ill with a stomach bug and my energy was low for about 7 days. I was not really 'ill', but simply didn't feel myself, nor 100%.
No wish to do things, at all. It reminded my time with lyme, long ago, and suddenly, a lot of memories came.
The worst lyme memories were of feeling guilty for not doing things I should have been doing.
I simply had zero will to do things then.
As the stomach bug problem disappeared after about 10 days, well, so the lazy feeling went.
Initiative came back rather fast, same speed as it left me.
During chronic illnesses, disease stays. Not days, nor weeks, not even months, but YEARS.
Decades, sometimes.
Coping with that lack of initiative, lack of will do do anything for SUCH A LONG TIME always comes with guilt.
Also because everyone pinpoints that for you.
I am 100% SURE that if we don't feel next to 100%, initiative does not COME back naturally.
It will come back only pushed, with great effort, which means, it can do only minimally good and it is not true-initiative.
It's just to wash our guilt in front of others, somehow.
I swear to you all, that still do not feel about 90-100%, you are not lazy.
Lack of initiative is simply a symptom from disease. Same as inability to multi-task.
Both will come back, when your health comes back.
Initiative, positive energy, well-being feeling, profound relaxation, new ideas, socialization and enjoying company, all come back naturally when health comes back.
Guilt does not help our immune system recover!
--------------------- I don't know if this belongs to medical.
It was though one of the hardest 'stones' for me, during lyme.
I sort of had forgotten what it was to feel enthusiastic, energetic, simply because of the length of chronic suffering.
Just wanting to remind that this is just one more symptom, that will go away with treatment, when you improve.
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
Thanks for the reminder - I feel like I turned the corner when I started on Armour thyroid and had my motivation back again. My doctor explained it was like my body was in hibernation and the thyroid supplementation woke it up again. A lot of this is very physical.
That's why I say keep working with trying solutions. In this case, getting bloodtested for our various body chemistries is important to do. That's what alerted the doc.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Thanks, Robin. You're right, it is never only infections.
The problem is that infections wipe our reserves of B vitamins, magnesium, iron, zinc, whatever good stuff we arrive to absorb with nutrition. And of course, wipe out our hormones...
Then after our immune system fight somewhat some pathogens, there comes the huge task of cleaning up debris. We need more enzymes, more minerals, more vitamins, more hydration...
No way I could get off lyme without supplementation.
Despite all that, fatigue was terrible. When it got better, initiative did not come back fast.
Then comes guilt.
I think that only after the body is really well, and rested a bit from months, years of fight, only then all that will to do things come back, naturally.
It takes time for hormones to kick in again, even without crushing fatigue, infections etc.
I'd rather take homeopathic hormones though, because I am afraid my body starts thinking it doesn't need to produce hormones anymore, if I take any chemical hormone...
anyway, it's true that supplementation, herbs, minerals, vitamins, did help with energy. My problem though, was to find right supplements, as I reacted badly to most of them.
Multi supplements rarely helped me, but made me worst. I guess I reacted to fillers, or some of the components of the pills. Too much of some minerals or vitamins is also not good.
another part of the puzzle is the HPU / KPU, I think. Tricky to solve.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Very true....thanks.
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
sadly I have learned never to say I'm tired, have a headache, cramps,etc. I jus struggle on praying that God will grant me the strength to continue.
its hard with no support.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- A very important thread, this is.
" . . . hard with no support . . . ." &
". . . have learned never to say I'm tired . . . ." randibear points out an extremely vital communication point for all our relationships, even with ourselves.
It's not being "tired" at all. It's dealing with complex chronic medical matters. It took me a long time to say the work "sick" or "ill" . . .
and as for no initiative or motivation, I'd say most of us have FAR more than a typical person. Initiative and motivation are internal desires.
But they require the physical means to function.
And, as for how those around us think of us, it can be devastating when they choose not to learn the reality of what is going on and the reality of the real person inside of us.
All this has really made me better define what it means to be in a friendship or have a true relationship with any other. Many just did not make the cut.
My hands, my inner hearing, my mind has banished the word l a z y. In fact, I'd bet many who have been accused of that over time have had some very real physiological barriers that just can't be seen with a normal field of vision. Getting judgment out of the way is a huge challenge. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Some good light to shine on what can be going on and some things that might be of help along the way:
Topic: post exertional malaise & Exercise Intolerance -
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
You guys are amazing. And right, to say you do not lack initiative, and on the contrary, have a lot of it. Just see how much we search for alternatives, and solutions to go on!
I didn't mean to accuse anyone of being lazy. It's just that I had a stomach flu that knocked me down (fatigue), recently.
I was not really full of symptoms. Only not hungry, and not wanting to leave my bed early in the morning!
Day 1, fine. Day 2, fine. Day 3 on started to feel 'not right'.
I started to get impatient, when I am going to get better...
By day 7, all my Pandora monsters started coming back, from the time of lyme disease, almost 8 years ago.
I remember how I freaked, every morning, feeling that crushing fatigue, no will to do anything.
I could just self treat, look after my daughter minimally... That was already too much, some days.
Then seeing her screaming in front of a TV screen the whole day, day in, day out, week in, week out, that was the most awful thing to live.
I had no force to move or to sit and interact with her.
I couldn't stop feeling guilty, no matter, if that was not my fault.
I felt guilty for not being able to be myself, to just smile and play with my baby.
After day 10 of the stomach bug, I felt myself again, no more illness, no more fatigue.
What I meant by lack of initiative, is not a judgement...
When lyme left, the first thing I did was to take classic piano lessons. I knew that, at my age (middle of 40s), either I learned that at that moment, or it may never happen.
I saw death close during lyme, that's what I meant.
That meant hundreds of hours of intense practice, for weeks, months, years.
I mean, who with chronic lyme, crushing fatigue, would dedicate so much energy, time, effort to a hobby?
It was a 'heart' hobby, but really, just a hobby.
I mean, stuff like that is a privilege.
And to enjoy all that practice, suffering, , more practice, more suffering... well, that's also a privilege.
It didn't even cross my mind during lyme.
That sort of impulse, and how a healthy person can enjoy that effort for a simple hobby, no utility whatsoever, is what I call 'initiative to do things'.
During lyme, I just wanted to be able to walk again, look after my toddler, cook at least one dish a day, take a shower at least once a week.
My initiative was lost in trying to walk or stand up, trying to concentrate on the sequence of cooking ONE single pot of food without burning the whole kitchen or the dish...
My initiative was just trying to gather powers at certain minutes of the day, when I could walk, then put the clothes in the washing machine.
That was all I could do, that was all I wanted to do.
It has NOTHING to do with initiatives of healthier people, really. During lyme, it never came into my mind to take classic piano lessons. I just wanted to feel one day, normal again.
It was the 'waiting to get better' that crushed me, making me feel guilty. Waiting time was just too long.
I felt guilty in front of my toddler. She didn't judge me. But I couldn't help feeling guilty, as I had no family around to help, it was only she and I, day in, day out.
[ 02-26-2017, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: Brussels ]
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
you know that some of us, elderly, don't have that much time left.
god, what wouldn't give.....ah no, what good is shouldda, wouldda, couldda....
only depresses you.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Randi...
What helped me DURING lyme, was improvement.
binders, were my best friends. No matter how much ill I was, when I took binders, it was like a drug.
It was like finally, a sunny day feeling.
After 2 hours of break, then the crappy feeling came back. With the time, I learned to take my binders again, before the crappy hours came.
So I could have hours of feeling good in a day.
It was a blessing to have learned energy testing and being able to test my own binders, amount, combinations... that I took religiously, no break, for 5, 6 , sometimes 7 times a day.
Those binders brought me hope. Even during illness.
I kept thanking cholorella, bear garlic, MSM, whatever helped me out of the lyme hole.
I grabbed those moments, believed them so much, because, despite of illness, I could feel almost normal, even if for a few hours a day.
Believe me or not: despite new babesiosis reinfection, new lyme cocktail of a new tick bite on top of chronic lyme, chronic candida, I could still have a few hours symptom free, sometimes.
Those moments where I had no fog, no crushing fatigue, and felt RELAXED, those were my golden moments, which gave me hope. I knew I could get out, because those moments existed, and kept repeating, on and on.
Ups and downs, but I had my up-moments to prove I could make it.
Energy testing was a blessing. I wish everyone could learn that too.
[ 02-26-2017, 04:48 PM: Message edited by: Brussels ]
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
what exactly are binders?
I've tried everything else.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Binders of neurotoxins. My precious ones were basically chlorella + bear garlic tincture + MSM in powder.
but sometimes, depending on which neurotoxins I had, I had to add some other things, like activated charcoal, zeolites, DE, whatever 'tested' energetically.
but really, about 80% of the binders were merely a combination of these 3 things above. I also took Omega 3 supplements daily, magnesium daily, milk thistle daily, electrolytes (mild rock salt solution), stuff like that.
And I kept tapping: 9 meridians, like a ritual, it took me only 2-3 minutes each time, but it was almost like a magic spell. If only you guys knew the power of acupuncture / acupressure....
Simple, free of charge, powerful.
In the beginning I was shy. Only tapped hidden. Then I started doing it anywhere, in a train, on the streets, I didn't care. I still do that, many times, it got so natural it feels almost like breathing.
I use MFT (dr. K), which is the original EFT, with one difference.
2 to 3 minutes that make the whole difference. Only after you try, you understand its power.
All that felt more like prayers than 'treatment', because all that was just to support my body to withstand herxes and toxins.
But I came to understand that in fact, most of my complains about lyme were toxins. It was not pathogens, but neurotoxins.
the moment my mind set changed from killing-only to MAINLY supporting-toxin-removal, it was the beginning of the end of lyme.
It took still years, but I had my golden moments that proved to me, I was still able to feel well, even if under so many supplements, herbs, tapping...
By the end of lyme, I even didn't mind having lyme, as life was surely coming back.
I started taking 80% of killers, 20% of supportive stuff - to 95% of supportive stuff and 5% of killers. That proportion was what took me off my worst moments.
If you take binders in small amounts, incorrect binders, insufficient binders (as with lyme killers, we ALSO need binders in combination), you won't feel symptom-less, in my experience.
It's like a magic formula: right combination, right frequency of intake, right amount, then comes magic.
Taking binders once, twice a day made little difference, in my worst days. I needed really 5-7 times a day.
When I improved, I needed them about 2-3 times a day. Even today, I take binders, about 2x week still, even if I take zero killers.
Many people detox better than me. But for me, only that proportion 95% support to 5% killers could make me feel normal, at least, for a couple of hours a day.
But when you realize you have no fatigue, no brain fog, and you are relaxed, even for 30 minutes a day... it is THE light at the end of the tunnel that you see.
It was not a coincidence to feel that only after binders. Only binders made me feel that.
-------------------------------------------- Today, I do think herxes are the MAIN reason people remain sick.
Herxes are the main weapon certain pathogens found to doom our immune systems.
It is an evolutionary weapon Borrelia/ babesia/ bart/ candida use against us.
The only way out, for me, was to cancel that weapon. That required that proportion 95% - 5% I'm talking about.
Posted by Donna Campbell (Member # 52157) on :
You should stop being lazy when you feel a discomfort in your body. My sister has this problems and we were fighting with her because of her lack of initiative. I was trying to convince her to change her state of mind while she is ill, but the answer was always “no”. By the way, I found an interesting article about this https://www.speakrandom.com/blog/how-to-stop-being-lazy-grit-your-teeth/. Here is everything very well explained and helpful for the lazy ones.
[ 11-01-2020, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: Donna Campbell ]
Posted by daisys (Member # 11802) on :
I have found that when I feel no motivation, it's reflecting my physical state. It's hard to tell until I feel better, and then there's no holding me back.
Posted by Bartenderbonnie (Member # 49177) on :
I used to constantly think about all the wasted days and nights spent in bed. Lots of guilt and wondering how the hell am I going to get out of this horrendous mess.
But Lyme takes large chunks of time to heal. Most of us have Lyme fully imbedded in our bodies from being inadequately diagnosised and treated.
I realized that bad days are just bad days. It's the nature of the beast. You are sick, very sick. Baby your body and give it time to heal. Follow your protocol. Listen to your LLMD. Relax, ride it out, breathe and it will pass.
Good days are sweet, treasured, appreciated and never taken for granted.
You owe nobody any explanations. If they imply you are lazy, cut them loose, negatively is simply not healthy for YOU and serves no purpose.
If you want to accuse someone of being lazy, put your energies towards main-stream doctors that deny the exsistance of chronic Lyme because they are too lazy to keep up their education on the research of TBI's that have been published for years. Or the CDC on their laziness to change out-dated testing and treatments put foward from the 1990's.
Donna Campbell, you owe your sister an apology. Don't blame the victims. Posted by Kristyn (Member # 51857) on :
Thank you Bonnie. That didn't sit right with me at all too.
Posted by Carol in PA (Member # 5338) on :
Donna, you said of your sister, "I was trying to convince her to change her state of mind while she is ill, but the answer was always “no”.”
Have you heard of this proverb? “A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.”
I read the article at that link. My thoughts are that the author has failed to take poor health into account. He/she also confused procrastination with laziness.
While lazy means being averse to work or avoiding it, it can also describe something slow moving or unenergetic. Having low energy helps you to prioritize things, only doing the things that matter.
When the United States of America began as colonies of England, people with initiative and energy were the ones who did well and prospered in the farmlands and the wilderness. The ones who sat around and did nothing got nowhere.
Now if someone calls you lazy in this country, it’s an insult. It may be true, but it’s also judgmental. You don’t know the reasons why someone has low energy, a dirty house, a poor job history, and no initiative.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
When your body is sick, you can't be convinced you are well.... It may work temporarily.
WE need physical health to feel fit mentally 90% of the time or more.
I no longer have lyme, but when I get ill with skin infections in winter, I also get slow, lacking everything. Not able to truly relax or enjoy anything, no motivation.
Getting motivation back is the sign for me of health. Lack of motivation is usually a physical problem in my case.
Posted by daisys (Member # 11802) on :
Not only does illness affect motivation, there are compelling reasons not to pressure someone into another's idea of the right decision or frame of mind.
Nobody knows a situation like the person living it. If they explain everything they can about it, the hearer still doesn't get the nuances that are a person's intuition.
These gut feelings are based on a person's own experiences, whether they are conscious of them or not. They are an important part of decision making.
Children live with decisions that others make for them. Responsible adults should make the decisions that they have to live with.
A positive attitude is very good. However, when a person has a serious chronic illness like lyme, it can't be conquered by just ignoring it, or pushing through it. There's a huge difference to understand about thinking positively, and not being realistic.
My bottom line is this: We have to become our own best advocates, because not many see what we are up against.
On a first medical appointment, I always tell the doctor that I appreciate their knowledge and experience, but I am the world's expert on my own health situation. If they don't respond in a positive way, I never go back.
If a relative, or someone else I know, insists that it's all just my attitude, I tell myself "water off a duck's back" and keep on taking care of myself.
It only took about 50 years for me to get to this understanding. I got lyme disease in 1970.
Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
I found after 18 yrs that my symptoms of feeling lazy and no initiative was ALL from being hypothyroid and having Hashimoto's(thyroid auto-immune).
For 30 yrs I took T4 Levothyroxine, just like the majority of folks who are hypothyroid are directed by the medical establishment.
Lyme & co attacked, changed and skewed my thyroid hormones and tanked me even further.
I've tried many combos of thyroid meds in the last 3 yrs and every time one of those combos failed me......I went back into lazy/no initiative mode.
I never gave up finding what my body truly needed to feel better. No matter what the white coat and labs said, I found the hormone T3 and the formula that I needed to feel alive again.
What a blessing to have a doctor who trusts me to know what is best for me. Of course I was the one that did all the research, studied my thyroid DNA, and found my answers.
So don't assume these lazy & no initiative is Lyme & co.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
, more practice, more suffering... well, that's also a privilege.![[group hug]](graemlins/grouphug.gif)