This is topic bee venom therapy thread in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.

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Posted by bluelyme (Member # 47170) on :
Hi ,i wanted to create a thread devoted to bvt and it may be sparse and quiet but for posterity and knowledge dissemination i thought it appropriate. There is facebooks and a few sites, plenty of you toobers

like the mhbot ,or rife thread i am creating this to share ,guide and give-hope and knowledge. Please debate/argue elsewhere but Bee free to ask here.

Bee venom therapy is the treatment with the venom of honeybees.along with other products of the hive (propolis ,royal jelly and bee pollen)

bee venom may not be for everyone .a percentage of people are allergic.! Have a epipen on hand at all times if choosing this modality. Unless one has anaphylaxis most reactions are normal.

tweezers ,benadryl, epi pen ,bees and hootzspa is all one needs . It can be a investment in a hive or mail order at about 15$ a week.

the standard set by lobel and her minions is 10 full stings ,3x a week for 2 to 3 years .
I have seen some improve with just microstings and heard of someone in mexico doing 75 stings a day. So like all lyme tx , i think it must be tailored ,tolerance built up and a willingness to persevere.

This is the famous 1997 study that started it that buhner propogates and may be the reason why people with ms have done so well with bvt as a treatment as opposed to immunosuppressive tx

a good place for info is
jen is a alumni of the american apitherapy society certification which was founded by charles mraz.

Some purists think it is best as monotherapy.although tnt and myself noticed gains in reducing symptoms and visually in our microscopes when using bvt with abx/herbs/rife

Bee venom is a toxin ,contains many peptides ,dopamine
and is more effective than glucosteroids in inflammation reduction. It is lipophilic ,antibacterial,antifungal and possibly anti-apicomplexian and antiviral as well as anticarcinagenic.

it regulates th1 /th2.and is a effective pain treatment modality It has been used for many centuries as a treatment for arthritis.(mycoplasma?)

I will post some studies on its effectiveness on staph,hiv ,and of course lyme n co.
eva sapi is long overdue in her 33 page paper on venom and its efficacy on borrelia biofilms

when i began 1.5 years ago i was begining to have als like sx with extreme vertigo and pain .(plus many other horrible sx ,livedo ,ocular migraines ,tmj etc etc) .. I worked a 15hr day a few weeks ago

I have done many other treatments in combination and treated other pathogens with other modalities but bvt has been the staple ...

Also will continue to share progress ,experience and knowledge as well as encourage others to do the same thanks lymenet
Posted by bluelyme (Member # 47170) on :
Here is a old lymenet thread from way back;f=1;t=045611
Posted by Neko (Member # 46592) on :
I'm thinking of doing bee venom therapy, so I'll def contribute if I end up going that route.
Posted by bluelyme (Member # 47170) on :
Keep us posted neko..susank your mailbox is full
Posted by susank (Member # 22150) on :
Blue - glad you started this thread.
Will be interesting to see how Dr. Sapi's research turns out.
My mailbox should be OK now.
Posted by bluelyme (Member # 47170) on :
Bee venom inhibits malaria

bee venom anticarcinigenic

i love quoting lymenet in lymenet
What is bvt

[ 04-21-2017, 12:11 AM: Message edited by: bluelyme ]
Posted by TNT (Member # 42349) on :
Thanks for doing this thread, Bluelyme! I too have been doing BVT! I am 14 months in and normally do 10-12 stings per session. My schedule is every other day, but sometimes it goes longer. It took me about a half year to work up to nominal "dosage" which is 10 stings per session. I have done as many as 16 per session but that was too "hot" for me....meaning I felt worse on it (probably too much kill). That said, it wasn't until I got to at least 10 stings per session that I really made gains. Beginners shouldn't go too fast, but the key is to work up to at least 10 stings per session as quickly as possible.

What I want to stress for anyone considering BVT is that normally (for me anyhow) you only feel BETTER when you sting!!! As long as you go slow and work your way up on stings per session, you only feel better and better. If you have pain (such as joint or muscle pain), the stings, at least temporarily, take that totally away! AND, for me, after stinging, my coordination and PD-like, MS-like, and ALS-like symptoms lessen! And, now, after months of stinging (along with ABX), my neuro-degenerative coordination symptoms are very mild most of the time!!!


If it wasn't for the bees, I would still be slowly dying! But, as I have stated elsewhere, I don't think the BVT alone would have gotten me to the place I am now at. For me, it has been the combination of the right ABX and BVT that has gotten me to where I am. But, ABX alone was allowing me to slowly die a painful, agonizing, wasting, hellish death. At my lowest point, I was only a vestige of my former relatively healthy self. I was beginning to resemble a concentration camp inmate.

BVT has been key for me in knocking back the infections AND rebuilding. I am still not out of the woods, but the Grim Reaper is not right behind me anymore. I am actually able to enjoy life again.

If you read the available medical and scientific literature regarding bee venom and melittin (I scoured the literature) you will find that it has potent antimicrobial action against almost every pathogen known to infect man. Very potent against fungus, yeast, biofilm, L-forms, spirochetes, apicomplexans (protozoans), viruses, and gram positive bacteria!!! I don't think I missed anything. The only thing I found in the literature that it is not very potent against was gram negative bacteria. Bee venom has about 50% kill rate for those type of bacteria. That is why Bluelyme and I have supplemented our BVT with ABX and other antimicrobials with activity against those bacteria (such as Bart & BLO).

But, I emphasize!!!..... against all the others I mentioned BVT has VERY POTENT antimicrobial activity! Very high kill rates! Just an example: bee venom is more potent than Fluconazole for fungus. So, you get the idea.

For those of you that are hesitant to try BVT, I want to assure you that if you ice the sting area before stinging, you feel very little if anything when you are stung. Really!

Happy stinging!

[ 06-05-2017, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: TNT ]
Posted by bluelyme (Member # 47170) on :
Here is eva sapi long awaited proof. Venom works better than 3 abx on borrelia biofilm
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
What nature already does, that humans will never be able to do! [shake]

for those who would like to get a small sample of what Bee venom does, there is homeopathic bee venom, called Apisinum.

I use it in dilution X6.

I also used to use a topical cream on my lyme arthritis, with bee venom, sold by Dr. K in the past.
Posted by willbeatthis (Member # 31111) on :
Eva Sapi is a hero! Bravo! So cool to see that be venom affects all forms. This is huge! Indeed, happy stinging!
Posted by willbeatthis (Member # 31111) on :
This is a great thread! TNT and BlueLyme, Congratulations on your progress. Now if you don't have a hive, how do you get the bees and how do they stay alive for weekly treatment?
Posted by TNT (Member # 42349) on :
Originally posted by willbeatthis:
This is a great thread! TNT and BlueLyme, Congratulations on your progress. Now if you don't have a hive, how do you get the bees and how do they stay alive for weekly treatment?

Hey willbeatthis! bluelyme now has regular hives, but I mail order them from honey bee sellers and I keep them in a little "bee buddy" box until I use them to sting. They are about 3 weeks old when I receive them, and they usually stay living for another 2-3 weeks in my bee buddy. Very low maintenance. I feed them a paste made of honey and confectioner's sugar. They do fine on that, and it's not as messy as straight honey. Besides, the more straight honey they feed on the more diarrhea they tend to develop.

Here's the bee buddy I use. I get the bees from the same business.
Posted by willbeatthis (Member # 31111) on :
Thanks, TNT, how do you get the bees out for stinging? and how do you transfer them in there without getting stung? Thanks a lot!!
Posted by bejoy (Member # 11129) on :
I used bee venom ointment called Venex, rubbed on the skin. I thought it was very effective. It can cause a rash like a sunburn for about 20 minutes, but it is far less painful than a sting, and easier to use.
Posted by bluelyme (Member # 47170) on :
the ointment will cause a circulatory reaction 1 inch cream = 1/3 of 1 sting venom wise ...i use a apitherapy box and low grip reversible tweezers "miagi style then use fine tip to remove stinger for microstinging. carefully ..carniolians are nice my Spanish bastards are mean
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
Epipen is required to have on hand, and that usually means at least two of them in case the first on fails as can happen.

Considerations that are more daunting now includes not just the very high price of always having EPIPEN on hand but also the additives.

Also to consider: many with lyme also have MAST CELL issues. Bee sting therapy / even just a topical cream can set off even more serious reactions for someone with mast cell issues. This is not in article below yet also vital to research.

EPIPEN - the PRICE, also see the comments for allergic preservative detail.

CBS - August 16, 2016 - while some prices may be different now, the concern over price - and additives - still require researching - studying the Epipen inserts with all ingredients listed, etc.


Epipen / Epinephrine

Epinephrine can be a life saver in a serious allergic reaction where breathing might shut down, etc..

However, as a stimulant, and to those with lyme / adrenal / heart rhythm issues best to avoid unless in a life-threatening emergency (and then back up with support measures after emergency has passed).

is in many anesthetics (not sure about anesthesia, though).

Some discussion on why epinephrine (EPI) can be a rough ride for someone with lyme (especially if they have adrenal issues):

EPI & medical / dental procedures

[ 03-26-2018, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
Also vital is to consider that even with precautions, and even if one did okay with bees before, that can change in an instant - and the additives can complicate reactions. Even the cream can cause serious reactions. It's a big risk. Precautions may not always be enough (other than avoidance).

Just 3 days ago:

Excerpt: " . . . It is thought to be the first death due to the treatment of someone who was previously tolerant of the stings .. . . "

A woman has died after undergoing bee-sting therapy

BBC - 23 March 2018

The 55-year-old Spanish woman had been having live bee acupuncture for two years when she developed a severe reaction.

She died weeks later of multiple organ failure.

Researchers who studied the case say live bee acupuncture therapy is "unsafe and unadvisable".

It is thought to be the first death due to the treatment of someone who was previously tolerant of the stings.

The woman's case has been reported in the Journal of Investigational Allergology and Clinical Immunology, by doctors from the allergy division of University Hospital, Madrid.

She had been having the treatment once a month for two years at a private clinic to improve muscular contractures and stress.

During a session, she developed wheezing, shortness of breath, and sudden loss of consciousness immediately after a live bee sting.

She was given steroid medication but no adrenaline was available, and it took 30 minutes for an ambulance to arrive.

The woman had no history of any other diseases like asthma or heart disease, or other risk factors, or any previous allergic reactions.

The doctors found severe anaphylaxis had caused a massive stroke and permanent coma with multiple organ failure.

The report's authors called for:

* Patients to be fully informed of the dangers of apitherapy before undergoing treatment

* Measures to identify sensitised patients at risk should be implemented before each apitherapy sting

* Apitherapy practitioners should be trained in managing severe reactions

* Apitherapy practitioners should be able to ensure they perform their techniques in a safe environment

* They should have adequate facilities for management of anaphylaxis and rapid access to an intensive care unit

But they acknowledged that because the treatment often takes place in private clinics, these measures may not be possible.

One of the report's authors Ricardo Madrigal-Burgaleta concluded:

"The risks of undergoing apitherapy may exceed the presumed benefits, leading us to conclude that this practice is both unsafe and unadvisable." . . . .
Posted by TNT (Member # 42349) on :
I appreciate the reminder, Keebler. Yes, people can become allergic (or can be before starting), but the vast majority of people are NOT allergic to bee stings. There is always that tiny possibility of having a life-threatening reaction while doing the treatment. That is why a person MUST ALWAYS have an epipen immediately available to them. The pens are not that expensive considering their shelf life (approx. $100 per generic pen and shelf life of at least a year....look up the studies....they are effective up to 4 years post-expiration date). I am not advocating using an expired pen, but just saying--for even a year's worth of assurance-- the price of the pens are not prohibitive. In fact, I applied with the Epipen manufacturer and got my pens free.

I repeat, the vast majority of people are NOT allergic, nor will they become allergic to the venom during the treatment.

The healing/curative value of bee venom (live stings) is SO WORTH any miniscule risk! I have been stinging for two years now and I am living a life. Before the BVT I was slowly dying. Read my story and symptoms above, or just search my earlier posts before BVT! I'm not out of the woods yet, but nor am I done stinging.

This is the EASIEST and CHEAPEST treatment available. And, there is nothing else that comes as close to a panacea. Look at the PubMed literature yourself if you don't believe me. Or, simply look at Eva Sapi's published study on the incredible spirochetacidal effects of whole bee venom.

Here is one of the illustrations from her study utilizing an atomic force microscope:

The bee venom clearly obliterated the Bb colony!!!

First the smaller version for perspective:


And, the second image for detail:
Posted by TNT (Member # 42349) on :
Originally posted by willbeatthis:
Thanks, TNT, how do you get the bees out for stinging? and how do you transfer them in there without getting stung? Thanks a lot!!

This link should give you what you need to know:
Posted by bluelyme (Member # 47170) on :
yes thanks tnt !that jens website she is a fellow alumni of the apitherapy society certification and a ellie lobel fan ..

great pics , finally proof is in the pudding !

so i once heard this anecdotal story about the maker of venex who probably has had the most venom in a lifetime in a human ..recently after 50+year of getting stung he finally hit a wall and passed out while tending his hives he came to and still works with bees happens every so often at his age he probably runs circle around me
Posted by Neko (Member # 46592) on :

I am thinking of starting bee venom therapy. There was so,some near me that offered it, but he sadly passed away in his 90s.

So I am trying to figure out how to get started.

I'm a little sad to use live bees, wondering if that's more effective then bee venom powder.i do t think I could do powder as I would heed a delivery system (needles, how to reconstitute, etc)

As for venom therapy, I might try kambo sometime too:
Posted by bluelyme (Member # 47170) on :
my friend is doing kambo and bvt ...its intense ...if you have hive you make more than u take but if you want scroll up to the injectable venom from canada in the thread called venex ....

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