This is topic herxing in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.

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Posted by kevin1983 (Member # 51489) on :
has anybody experienced crippling depression accompanied with extreme fatigue, racing thoughts like music playing over and over after using the desbio lyme series kits because i feel completely empty and totally numbed in my head.

It seems like Im altering moods daily on the bipolar spectrum as well with my random mood swings.

I test positive for lyme, pandas(15 strep cases), parasite infection, ebv and candida through miredian stress testing and scored pretty high for lyme.

im on my second box of desbio and they have different frequencies of strength you take every 3 days but if this is herxing its almost unbearable since its increased everything.

i just feel very worthless and i cant talk to anybody about this. i have no idea if this is real bipolar vs lyme induced bipolar, any thoughts?


(breaking up the post for easier reading for many here)

[ 09-22-2019, 06:39 AM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Sorry Kevin.

What kind of products are you taking exactly?

I'm familiar with homeopathy but I would need more info about what you're taking.

If herxes are too much, back off, stop or give longer intervals between intake.

Then take binders, lemon water, cucumber juice, anything that helps with electrolytes and detoxing.
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
I'm wondering whether it's too strong for you? I have done a little bit of homeopathy and know how strong its effects can be.

I'm wondering if it would be possible to communicate with anyone associated with the products business?

Also, are you seeing any Lyme doctor you could talk with about it?

Lastly, I'd like to suggest that you not feel worthless. Everyone has worth.
Posted by DaveNJ (Member # 17362) on :

i've never been on your protocol but i've had the same experiences while taking antibiotics. Bouts of depression that come and go and lots of OCD ticks especially the same song or thought over and over again. to me it certainly sounds like your treatment.

when it comes to stuff like this its trial and error. take a break and see if things improve. sometimes knowing what causes it can ease your mind.

Just my two cents.

Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :

LIVER & KIDNEY SUPPORT & and several HERXHEIMER support links, too.
Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
Kevin, did you start with the DesBio Complete Detox & Cleanse protocol?

Maybe you are so clogged up you are not detoxing well and by adding the other kit of killers, your body isn't able to clear away the toxins that are caused from the die off of these bacteria(s).

Sometimes it's best to start with the important things besides the kill stage.

I'm glad to see you finally found someone in Ohio to start you somewhere and give you some answers to what bad guys are tearing you up.

Posted by bejoy (Member # 11129) on :
Hi Kevin,

In my experience, much of the herxing you are describing is caused by high ammonia levels. Breakdown of proteins, including Lyme bacteria, causes elevated ammonia levels in the body and brain. Ammonia is acidic, and is a neurotoxin.

The brain needs a biochemical called tetrahydrobiopterin to reduce ammonia. The body makes this naturally, but can't always keep up with the amount needed, with rapid die-off. The brain also needs this same chemical to produce Serotonin and Dopamine, the feel good neurotransmitters.

The brain will give preference to removing ammonia, over producing well-being chemicals.

The best product I have seen for correcting this problem is Pteridin-4 by Ecological Formulas. They are regularly out of stock, back-ordered, or hard to order without a medical practitioner's account.

Alternatively, the body can use high doses of Manganese as a precursor to producing tertrahydrobiopterin, serotonin, and dopamine.

However, for some people, this also elevates all the neurotransmitters too high, causing severe anxiety. For those people, a dose of L-Methionine will usually elevate the enzymes that break down neurotransmitters, reducing anxiety.

Those with the MTHFR gene may not break down L-Methionine effectively, so need to take L5MTHF Methylfolate to break down the L-Mehtionine.

I like the potential combination of these three product for dealing with pain, depression, and anxiety from Lyme, Mold, and Parasite die-off, taken based on symptoms. Needs and amounts are different for different people, based on genetic mutations.

You can find this information by analyzing the methylation cycle chart.

I am not a doctor. This is information and opinion, not medical advice. As always, consult you doctor regarding medical concerns, and use of medications and supplements.

I hope you feel better!
Posted by kevin1983 (Member # 51489) on :
I'm on this protocol doing 2 batches of the kits do I need the detox kit by desbio to ease the herxes then?
Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
kevin, when I went looking on the web for desbio, I found this

Please read this and take some notes. Do some more searching on the web for folks that have used these products.

Call Des Bio or whoever has gotten you this product and your diagnosis. Talk to someone. You do NOT need to go into severe herxes to heal.

The most important thing is to be detoxing properly.

Take care of you!

Posted by kevin1983 (Member # 51489) on :
does anybody know if these mania episodes that

manifest into rage associated with herxing when

doing the kill mode is actually causing damage to

the brain, any thoughts because i had another last

night when doing the 500x frequency vial of desbio

and my mind raced 1000 times a second it seemed

and my speech became rapid plus i was doing

multiple tasks more than what my energy can

tolerate normally and ended with a scary rage

encounter with my parents and now today im feeling

the effects of the mania burnout or crash as its

called with extreme fatigue/exhaustion plus my

head is doing some weird motioning sensations but

it aches on both sides, anybody go through herxing

like this experience or am i just a rare case lol?
Posted by Bartenderbonnie (Member # 49177) on :
Dr B (Pyschriatist ) is the world's authority on mental illnesses in Tick Borne Disease. He has published many ground-breaking research articles.

When Tick Borne Illnesses attack the frontal lobe, many Neuro manifestations occur. This frontal lobe is responsible for memory, language skills, problem solving, motor function, impulse control, emotions, decision making, and our personalities.

Here are mental responses pre-infection vs post-infection;

Time to up your detox or reduce your meds.
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
Originally posted by Bartenderbonnie:
Time to up your detox or reduce your meds.

Agree with Bonnie - I don't think you need to be going thru treatment this strongly.

I suggest you let people know what's happening with you, like let them know that you're feeling rage due to treatment and for everyone to take it easy.

To my knowledge, I don't think we're damaging our brain by treatment. The illnesses have already done that! We're trying to undo some of the damage.

map suggested you contact Desbio and chat with them, unless you have an LLMD to talk to.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
I would also try to go slower... People believe nosodes do nothing. For many people, they may not help.

But for me, they DID help, meaning, they did help my body to kill borrelia. So herxes are expected, even though less than with other treatments.

I find that the treatment of lyme is BASICALLY the MANAGEMENT of herxes and detox reactions. The rest - killing - is the EASIEST part.

There are loads of herbs and treatments for killing pathogens, but people ignore detox.

I find caring for detox THE most important part of lyme treatment. It took me some time to tune my treatments so that I concentrated about 5-10% on killing, and the rest, well, was a mixture of organ support (liver, kidney / lymph, gut, nutrition, antioxidants, sleep support, heavy metals support, binders, immuno modulators, etc).

The easiest part was ALWAYS the killing part, because there are so many alternatives around.

The problem has always been: ONCE your detox organs get loaded, you start having all sorts of bad symptoms, can't sleep, anxiety rises, adrenals keep crashing, ...

....your liver gets overwhelmed, you can't digest foods well, you can't put toxins away well, your gut gets a mess, your sleep gets a mess, well, the result is - MORE infections rise!

So you go backwards instead of forwards. That's been my experience.

With time, I learned to concentrate MUCH LESS in killing, and MUCH MORE in supporting cleansing and the immune system. This is for me the only way out, IF you suffer from detox symptoms.

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