This is topic FYI: Lyme Patients Report Reactions to Covid "Vaccine" in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.


To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/138614

Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
FYI: An informative review of people's personal experiences with Lyme and Covid "vaccine" reactions. Scroll down to blog section:

https://danielcameronmd.com/opinion-low-covid-19-vaccine-trust-among-lyme-disease-patients/
 
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
 
Thanks, Phoiph.
 
Posted by Carol in PA (Member # 5338) on :
 
Everyone with Lyme needs to read this.
Not the article, which said nothing new, but the comments.


I am horrified by the reactions some are reporting.
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
Agreed, Carol!
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
People with Lyme can contribute to the information base by taking the survey on Dr. Cameron's website:

"You are invited to share your experience with Lyme disease if you are at least 12 years of age and if:

You have had COVID-19
You have had the COVID-19 vaccine
You have had neither COVID-19 nor the COVID-19 vaccine
Your experience will help others living with Lyme disease in a COVID-19 Pandemic."


Additional posts re personal experiences with Lyme and the "vaccine" can be found by scrolling down on the survey page.

https://danielcameronmd.com/lyme-disease-covid-survey/
 
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
 
Very frightening, Carol.

https://www.redvoicemedia.com/2021/09/nurse-what-im-seeing-is-criminal/?fbclid=IwAR19LWgZqIhdpeCnQ33Bblr60fpOO89Nt6vk7MyZpnSlSqt1B0DgG7ZpVu8
 
Posted by MannaMe (Member # 33330) on :
 
That is scary!!
 
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
 
https://podtail.com/en/podcast/the-stew-peters-show/covid-hoax-ended-virus-cannot-be-located-foia-resp/

Stew Peters who hosted the nurse is someone who claims covid is a hoax.

Why would you believe anyone who appears on his show?

677,000 covid deaths in USA now and lots of long haulers. That is what is scary.

That being said I am sure some people have negative reactions to any vaccine. Talk to your doctor rather than rely on social media, please.
 
Posted by Bartenderbonnie (Member # 49177) on :
 
Please please please. . .

If you choose to not get vaccinated, wear a mask!

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/effective-masks.html
 
Posted by Garz (Member # 52095) on :
 
I read a number of the comments

I am not sure there is anything scary or surprising there.

i will try to explain why

- we know Lyme causes flares of symptoms - and new symptoms occurring spontaneously anyway

- we also know - that for understandable reasons - people with lyme often have a kind of heightened fear of health issues/ symptoms worsening - leading to a high potential for the very real placebo effect to cause both worsening of symptoms after vaccine - and the patient to in any case attribute any worsening to the vaccine - for some just the worry and fear about ill effects from the vaccine will be enough to precipitate real increases in symptoms esp. in the light of so much polarisation in the health sphere and internet around vaccine risks.

- and of course people with lyme have disturbed immune systems and so we should not be surprised if some of them have stronger reactions to a vaccine of any type - after all we are supposed to have a reaction to a vaccine - its part of how it works - and if your immune system is already on overdrive it will not be a big surprise if you get some effects that are at the upper end of the range expected

in the end we have no way of knowing if people who report really severe adverse effects after a vaccination - are having those due to the vaccine at all - after all the disease is known for relapsing and remitting and sudden worsening for no obvious reason.

and against this we also have to balance the fact that people who respond adversely to tiny amounts of antigenic substances from vaccination are at very much increased risk to getting even more immune disturbance from an actual Sars-Cov2 infection. not to mention the risk of life changing long COVID

so i think we all have to be careful of jumping on the fear wagon and joining a bunch of dots that do not necessarily belong joined up.

bear in mind also - there are a lot of people riding this fear wagon for their own benefit - self promotion and notoriety

social media platforms also thrive on fear, outrage and conspiracy theories - as it keeps people clicking better than anything else, and ultimately that's what drives their profits. They have absolutely no interest in a balanced fact based debate.
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
garz,

I appreciate your explanation/opinion, and agree that people with Lyme are more sensitive and prone to inflammatory reactions. Therein lies the concern.

At the end of the day, numerous people with Lyme have reported severe symptoms/relapse after the vaccine; even those that had been doing well for some time.

I find that very concerning, for whatever reason it happens, and I am grateful for the people who left the comments warning others (especially because we are not hearing the full story on adverse reactions in the media, and it is way too early to gauge long-term effects anyway).

It may or may not be a risk that people want to take, but at least they are better informed by reading other's experiences. It is an individual choice.
 
Posted by daisys (Member # 11802) on :
 
What is lacking to make that article well rounded is noting how many LD patients who got covid-19 have died. They aren't leaving comments on blogs.

It's well known that the vaccine, any vaccine really, is going to cause problems with a number of those who get it.

I haven't had a vaccine in many years. The risk of getting sick from the vaccine, as opposed to dying, changed my mind on this one.

I had a few days of more fatigue and headaches, then recovered to my original level of illness.

This coronavirus is serious--it has now killed more than the historic influenza of 1918-1919.

It would be good to have statistics on those with lyme disease who get vaccinated, or don't--and get ill with the virus.

One thing is clear, those who are healthy are much better off getting the vaccine.

Why not ask a nurse, or anyone who works in any hospital today, what their observations are on this issue? They don't wonder.
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
Unfortunately, I don't believe it is clear at all that those who are healthy are better off getting the vaccine. We aren't privy to all of the data, nor do we have any idea of long term effects.

Regarding asking a nurse, there are many health care workers who are not taking the "vaccine"; I know of a number personally.

To be clear, I am not advocating either way, as I feel it should be a personal (informed) choice. Just sharing what I consider important feedback from actual Lyme patients in the form of their commentary.
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
I appreciate this discussion...I think it is a conversation that needs to happen.
 
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
 
Nurses have SEEN what happens to some of the vaccinated.
 
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
 
Nurses have seen what happens to covid patients, too.

Currently in my county 82% of those hospitalized with covid are unvaccinated. 83% of ICU covid patients are unvaccinated. 100% of those on ventilators are unvaccinated.

No, the vaccine isn’t perfect but there are two sides to every story.

Consult your doctor about whether to get vaccinated or not. Get the facts about your area and covid statistics.

Stay safe. 😃
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
Here is another perspective to ponder on how the statistics are calculated and reported:

https://www.cities929.com/2021/09/16/op-ed-by-dr-joeseph-mercola/
 
Posted by norin (Member # 52378) on :
 
Considering the Project Veritas report, ALL reporting of deaths & reactions to the injections are questionable and should not be believed at face value. The entire system and those involved in it should be thoroughly investigated and the situation remedied immediately!

Your Body, Your Choice!
 
Posted by Lonestartick (Member # 2151) on :
 
Thank you for sharing the survey. I filled it out.

I hope that some of the other late-stage, Lyme patients will do so also. I suspect based upon volunteer contributions, it may skew more heavily to those who have had difficulties with the vaccines.

Beyond the normal, short lived immune response, my family, including 3 Lyme patients, have all done really well with the mRNA vaccines.

My elderly parents are 84 and 85 and they both have had Moderna vaccines and the 3rd/booster vaccine without any problems.

It was an easier decision for myself and my family because we buried a family member to Covid 19 last year.

I was still really nervous, but everything went great and I'm healthier than I've ever been.
 
Posted by norin (Member # 52378) on :
 
It's good to hear from you, Lonestartick!
 
Posted by Garz (Member # 52095) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Phoiph:
garz,

I appreciate your explanation/opinion, and agree that people with Lyme are more sensitive and prone to inflammatory reactions. Therein lies the concern.


yes i know its a concern - but there are no risk/concern free options here, so its about weighing the pro's and con's of each choice in a balanced way.
in this case, if a person is going to react so much to a small amount of spike protein or antigen in a vaccine - how much more are they likely to react to an actual SARSCov2 infection - which will fill them with 1000x more of that same protein / antigen.

I should add I am not vaccinated yet, so am not in the rabid yes camp or no camp - i'm recovering from lyme and about 50% recovered now so i feel the more well I am before the vaccine the better

my exposure to COVID is generally low as i live like a hermit and that is part of my calculation also -

so while its a risk to go unvaccinated, the longer i go the better my general health is and hopefully the lower my risk of adverse effects

this also gives time for finding more information on it / more studies to come out. eg effects in people with Lyme like the one in the OP.

at least thats how i am looking at it.
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Garz:
...in this case, if a person is going to react so much to a small amount of spike protein or antigen in a vaccine - how much more are they likely to react to an actual SARSCov2 infection - which will fill them with 1000x more of that same protein / antigen...

I would agree if this were a traditional vaccine, where a small amount of the inactivated virus is introduced to allow the body to mount a response.

mRNA therapy has a completely different mechanism of action, where it tricks your body's cells to replicate spike proteins. Some doctors and researchers believe this is producing severe inflammatory and autoimmune (and other) reactions in certain people.

A vaccine trial is usually stopped after 8 or 10 adverse reactions. There have been thousands of adverse reactions with the mRNA vaccine, and with the manufacturers released from liability, and information being censored, who is protecting the consumer?

The plan to roll out booster after booster is already in the works...is that not concerning?
 
Posted by Garz (Member # 52095) on :
 
i agree it is a concern - but one we are not currently easily able to quantify the risks or likelihoods very well.


however - one thing is pretty clear - the risks of COVID itself are much greater - especially in an already chronically ill community.
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
Also concerning is the lack of emphasis on prevention and treatment.

A number of doctors have had great success treating Covid in their practices and tried to share their methodology, only to be warned and/or shut down and discredited.

Which raises the question...If humanity's best interest was in mind, in a health crisis such as this, WHY would any promising treatment be discouraged to the point of censorship?

This has unfairly narrowed access to options and choices, and put many individuals between a rock and a hard place...having to choose what they consider the lesser of 2 possible evils...
 
Posted by norin (Member # 52378) on :
 
My friend from UK says there are 8 spaces on her health card reserved for covid boosters. Wonder how many will be enough?
 
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by norin:
My friend from UK says there are 8 spaces on her health card reserved for covid boosters. Wonder how many will be enough?

Never will be enough. [rant] [shake]
 
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
 
Well, my vaccine card only has 4 spaces for boosters.

Covid may end up being like the flu eventually where they recommend a booster every year. I don’t get the flu shot.

And if we get to that point it means that the variants are fewer or less dangerous. Remember this disease is still new to the world and you can’t expect scientists to know everything right now.

Just because some people are getting boosters doesn’t mean the vaccine is ineffective.

The nursing home at my mom’s retirement center got vaccinated in January and then opened to visitors. Between the end of January and midSeptember they had no cases of covid which shows the vaccine worked.

But now there are breakthrough cases because of the delta variant. Elderly don’t have as good as immune systems as younger people so it makes sense they need boosters.

Did you get the DPT shot when you were young? It requires a booster when you are older.

Older people often get pneumonia vaccine. It requires a booster every year.

700,000 Americans have died iof Covid? How many have died from the vaccine? 5 million in the world have died from Covid? Which is safer—Covid or the vaccine?

Each person should talk to their doctor about their decision whether or not to get vaccinated.
 
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
 
Also, they are now running double blind studies on ivermectin.

Merck has put out a new drug seeking FDA emergency approval that reduces risk of hospitalization and death from COVID-19.

Prevention is obvious. Wear a mask in indoor public places and don’t get too close to people.

A study of school districts in AZ just showed that schools that have mask mandates have almost 4 times fewer Covid cases than schools who don’t have a mask mandate or didn’t start the school year with a mask mandate.
 
Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
 
News FLASH Hiker...

that new drug is Ivermectin being renamed by Merck.

I'm sick and tired of fricking games being played by pharma, medical establishment, CDC, NIH, AMA, Powers that be currently trying to control American lives. They are LIARS and THIEVES!

For any Lyme sufferer to fall for one word that Fauci and his establishment have said in the last 19 months....is beyond me. Fauci was part of creating this virus. He used our tax dollars to do it.

Pam
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
Commentary on that same subject (ivermectin vs. "new" drug by Merke) written by a physician:

https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion/columnists/the-great-ivermectin-deworming-hoax/article_19b8f2a6-0f29-11ec-94c1-4725bf4978c6.html

Part 2: https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion/columnists/the-ivermectin-deworming-hoax---part-ii-eric-clapton-s-human-rights-warning/article_284902bc-14be-11ec-8d43-43e98275cff8.html
 
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
 
( SIGH )

It's just unbelievable what the American people are being told.

The TRUTH will be made known, believe me.
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
I'm quite surprised when those who have already suffered severe injury due to "Lyme denial" are not more skeptical of the narrative coming from those same entities.
 
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
 
Actually I am pretty skeptical by nature.

One of my skepticisms is the author of the editorials in the Desert Review (that Lymetoo gave us links for) is a doctor who won’t even give his real name. Dr. Joshua Hope is a pseudonym that he uses for his articles and books.

I don’t think it is right for doctors and scientists to use pseudonyms in materials they author. Pseudonyms are for authors who write fiction.

I totally agree the CDC and others got it wrong about Lyme although when I first contracted Lyme I wasn’t paying any attention to the CDC. I was more concerned that my local doctors wouldn’t even test for me for Lyme.

But I am probably not going to continue to post on this thread anymore. It has just become an argument between those who believe in the covid vaccine and those who don’t.

If you don’t want the vaccine at least be smart enough to wear a mask in public or do you think that is some sort of conspiracy, too?

Be safe.
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
hiker53,

I am sorry you feel this discussion has become an argument...I see it as a healthy, much needed debate, and I appreciate hearing all sides.

It is not that I don't believe in vaccinations or masks. I simply believe that we are not hearing the whole truth from the mainstream media, and therefore are unable to make fully informed personal decisions.

I am also skeptical about the motives of those (who are making billions and have no liability) pursuing an agenda that seeks to mandate an experimental medical intervention, or face potential loss of one's rights and freedoms.

I believe this should concern any American, no matter what their personal choice may be.
 
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
 
I apologize for posting a weak video way back.

There are plenty of good ones in Off Topic.
 
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
 
For Map1131 Mercks new drug is not a renamed ivermectin. Works by a totally different mechanism.

But very expensive. New drugs are always way too expensive (Heck old drugs are way too expensive!)

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/01/business/merck-covid-pill-molnupiravir.html

How does the Merck COVID-19 pill work?
Antivirals stop the replication process so the illness doesn't progress. The Merck drug works by introducing RNA-like building blocks into the virus's genome as it multiplies, which creates numerous mutations, disrupts replication, and kills the virus.
 
Posted by norin (Member # 52378) on :
 
My "old" drugs range from $3 - $15 for a 90 day supply. I can afford that and after being in the market for close to 20 years, I feel a bit more confident that the side effects are known well enough. Not so with any of the Covid jabs and I am not anti-vaxx; the Tetanus booster has probably saved me a world of hurt in the past. As for the Flu shot, I have not had one in over 30 years and have not gotten Flu in that time and am around people from all over the world.

I do agree that there are many who don't have the insurance that I do now and I have paid out-of-pocket years ago for Lyme tx and it breaks you; it really does.

That being said, I will not take the jab and will not be slave to a mask. If people are so afraid of getting infected, let them take the jab and wear a mask.
 
Posted by Bartenderbonnie (Member # 49177) on :
 
norin

We all need to CARE enough about each other and not have an issue in doing so.

The vaccinated population and the masked population are not a threat to the un-vaccinated population and the un-masked population.

The un-vaccinated population and the unmasked population are a threat to ALL because they are a willing disease vector.

Why is it always the opposite with you?

You could literally kill me, as I have no immune system and the vaccine won’t work in my body. If you cough or sneeze, your germs could infect others. Vaccines aren’t 100% and masks aren’t 100% and nothing in life is 100%.

We must ALL be a good global citizen.

Schools are a melting pot of transmissible infections. Therefore it would be reasonable for children to wear a mask during a pandemic. Children are directly connected to transmissions in the homes, offices, factories, stores, etc.

Parents make the tough choice to mask their children to save others. They end up getting harassed causing their children to cry and be scared. How is this ok?

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/tucker-carlson-anti-maskers-harassing-children-schools-1238078/
 
Posted by norin (Member # 52378) on :
 
Bartenderbonnie, I disagree with you. Why is it always the opposite with YOU? Just leave me alone. I'm entitled to my opinion and don't give a whack about Tucker Carlson. Bye!
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bartenderbonnie:


"...The vaccinated population and the masked population are not a threat to the un-vaccinated population and the un-masked population.

The un-vaccinated population and the unmasked population are a threat to ALL because they are a willing disease vector..."


Bartender Bonnie, please explain.

The "vaccine" does not propose to prevent infection or transmission of Covid-19, it only prevents severe disease in some people.

In addition, I read a study recently which found that vaccinated and unvaccinated people who are infected carry the same amount of virus in their nasal passages, so are equally contagious.

So....how are the "vaccinated" not a threat to the "unvaccinated", and the "unvaccinated" a "willing disease vector and a threat to all"?

Both vaccinated and unvaccinated people can spread Covid.
 
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
 
Phoiph, is this the study you are referring to?

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20211001/Similar-viral-load-in-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-individuals-infected-with-SARS-CoV-2-Delta-variant.aspx

It does say other studies got different results and it also emphasizes viral loads in kids can be very high so that implies testing and mask wearing are important.

And looking at hospital statistics and recent covid deaths, more are among the unvaccinated.
 
Posted by Bartenderbonnie (Member # 49177) on :
 
I agree with you Phoiph on the vaccine does not prevent infection or transmission, it only prevents severe disease in some.

Most people would not like severe disease or death so they get vaccinated

While the vaccine is not 100%, there are breakthrough cases.
I read the study you mentioned. It was based on vaccinated breakthrough cases and unvaccinated case so I also agree with you.

My post said the vaccinated AND masked population.
I have not read of one positive case in the vaccinated and masked population.

I also posted about children wearing a mask.
The science says children fare better, asymptotic but contribute to transmissions.

Life is so,precious. I don’t understand why wearing a mask is so hard for some?
 
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
 
Norin,

I can’t quite understand why mask wearing is such a big deal for some.

Don’t surgeons wear masks when they perform surgery on you? And why is that? To cut down on spread of germs.

Am not bullying you—just trying to understand.

To me mask wearing is like wearing a seat belt or driving in the correct lane to avoid a head on collision. Or stopping at a red light. Very simple and I assume these laws don’t infringe on your rights.

And I quite agree with you, Norin, on the flu vaccine.
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
Well, my question was not about masks...that is another variable in the equation.

It was about the belief...by many...that unvaccinated people are THE threat, and vaccinated people are not.

Besides creating dissention between the two sides, this misconception actually gives a false sense of security to vaccinated people, many of whom don't take precautions as they believe they are immune, and of no threat to others.

Unfortunately, we are unlikely to get to "herd immunity" with a vaccine that doesn't prevent infection or spread, and as a result creates evolutionary pressure on the virus to create mutations.

BTW...I am not anti-vax; I believe in informed personal choice.
 
Posted by Bartenderbonnie (Member # 49177) on :
 
Once again, I agree with you. The vaccinated can get a breakthrough infection and they do have a false sense of security.

Thats why I’m so dedicated to mask wearing.

I know your question wasn’t about a mask.
But my original post was about a vaccination AND a mask.

I have answered all of your questions.
Can you answer one of mine?

Do you think it’s ok for the anti-maskers and anti-vaxers to harass parents and children walking to school wearing a mask, like in my above videos.
 
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
 
Phoiph,

The vaccine worked just fine until the delta variant came along. Perhaps if more people had gotten vaccinated earlier and in other parts of the world there would not be these more contagious variants. Guess we will never know.

Some studies have shown that vaccinated people who get covid are contagious for fewer days than unvaccinated who get covid.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/08/11/covid-transmission-among-vaccinated-unvaccinated-what-experts-say/5488398001/

Thus, there would be less evolutionary pressure for mutations.

In my state masks are mandated when in indoor public places like grocery stores and in all schools and universities.

That has helped some as Illinois has not had the high number of delta cases as southern states which had no mask mandates.

Less transmission with masks means less chance of virus mutating.

Seems like every day scientists learn something new about covid.

Be safe.
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
Bartenderbonnie~

I don't think it is OK for anyone to harass anyone.
 
Posted by Bartenderbonnie (Member # 49177) on :
 
With all due respect Phoiph

I have been respectful and complementary throughout this thread. Please enlighten me where I harassed you.

I really thought we were having a very intelligent and factual conversation.
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
Bartenderbonnie,

I think you misunderstood. You asked me if I thought it was OK for anti-maskers and anti-vaxers to harass parents and children, as in your video.

I replied by saying I don't think it is OK for anyone to harass anyone.

I was not in any way implying that you harassed me. I enjoy a good debate...
 
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
 
I think enough back and forth has gone into this thread and feel like it needs to be locked or deleted.
 
Posted by Lonestartick (Member # 2151) on :
 
Hi Norin,

I saw your name and was wondering if it was you because the registration date threw me off a little. Good to see you, too. Hope you're doing well!
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by hiker53:
I think enough back and forth has gone into this thread and feel like it needs to be locked or deleted.

On what grounds should this thread be censored?

No rules have been violated, and everyone has been relatively civil.

These are unprecedented times with our health, welfare, and human rights at stake. I don't think we can afford to close our minds or our discussions on these crucial issues, no matter how uncomfortable...
 
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
 
I am not saying censor the thread. I am saying just lock it down.

Seems like same things are being repeated. And if you saw what happened in an Off Topic thread about covid, vaccines and masks you would understand why I proposed this.

Or move it to general since most medical is about Lyme and this is more about covid.

Just a thought.
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
IMO, if no rules have been violated, and the discussion is relevant and civil, "deleting" OR "locking down" IS censoring.

I feel the discussion is appropriate for Lyme/medical, as it began with a link to how people with Lyme are reacting to the Covid-19 vaccine, and became a more general discussion in context.

We can agree to disagree...
 
Posted by Bartenderbonnie (Member # 49177) on :
 
Phoiph

Apologies sent.

Sometimes the written word is interrupted different than the spoken word. I should have known better, you seem open to other’s thoughts and processes.

The problem with this topic, is that people don’t behave.
I have been accused of being a bully and harassing which is not true. (please believe I am not referring to you).

If one lacks the skill of discussing an issue with a cool head, they resort to name calling. I do not claim to know how we can get past this. Lately, we have not concentrated on the mission of Lymenet, which is offering support and guidance to Lyme patients.
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
Bartenderbonnie~

Thank you, I understand...no worries!
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
Food for thought, written by an MD:

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/10/the_unvaccinated_are_looking_smarter_every_week.html
 
Posted by EWT1638 (Member # 11315) on :
 
There are no studies that prove masks work, none. Masks in hospitals are for bacteria in an environmentally controlled area, for short term use. They are not, and never were, intended for use against viruses.

According to both doctors and immunologists (Dr.Geert Vanden Bossche, Dr Robert Malone, Dr. Peter McCullough, Dr. Pierre Kory and many others) state that these jabs offer very limited, short-lived help. No immunity and you can still both contract and pass this delta virus, therefore it doesn't even met the definition of a vaccine. Jabbing during an active pandemic drives immune escape...it can also drive Antibody Dependent Enhancement.

There have been NUMEROUS adverse reactions and deaths. There are GOOD therapeutic protocols and prophylactics. These jabs are not appropriate for many groups. We have no long term data...and the data coming out of Israel and the UK shows that the elderly and those with serious commorbidities are still getting sick and some are dying. One size does not fit all. I am an adult, I will make my own decisions regarding my medical decisions. I also major have issues with using aborted baby cell lines. If you feel you have made an informed consent, fine. The CDC, NIH and the WHO are capture, rogue agencies, in my opinion...but I am not alone in it.
 
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
 
https://www.fastcompany.com/90687783/chances-of-getting-covid-after-a-vaccine-cdc-tool-shows-breakthrough-cases-for-pfizer-moderna-jj

This article shows breakthrough infections with vaccines vs chance of getting Covid and dying without vaccine. No vaccination is perfect.

And if variants keep popping up that become more vaccine resistant then the mRNA vaccines can easily be tweaked for the variant.

I have been vaccinated but am not eligible for a booster, yet, and will wait to say what variants pop up. Delta + is showing up in England.

EWT—yes, the vaccines were designed from aborted fetal cell lines. This cell line is 50 years old and they keep it reproducing.

Just to be clear there are no aborted cells in the vaccine.

Many drugs were designed from this cell line such as Tylenol, Tums, Benadryl etc.

And I totally agree that mask wearing is important. And so easy and free of dangers. [Big Grin]

[ 10-19-2021, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: hiker53 ]
 
Posted by EWT1638 (Member # 11315) on :
 
We are reading and listening to different sources... Masks are not 'easy or free of dangers'. Bacteria grows in that moist warm space btw your nose/mouth and cloth/paper. It reduces oxygen, ...I know because I was forced to wear one for a procedure (I told them I had dysautonomia)...and first came the headaches, nausea, dizziness and then my bp dropped to 70/58, and they had to put me on oxygen. So... You, do you. I know what I can and cannot handle and what I am and am not willing to subject my conscience or body to anymore. Not mad at you, but tired of the lies put out by media and the agencies.
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by hiker53:
"...
And if variants keep popping up that become more vaccine resistant then the mRNA vaccines can easily be tweaked for the variant..."

hiker53~

Respectfully, I understand that you feel strongly about the merits of the mRNA therapy, but I have to ask...

How do you see this playing out? Injecting yourself with booster after booster every few months for life? Do you not see this as a potential problem for your physiology?
 
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
 
https://www.unitypoint.org/article.aspx?id=aa6ca469-4ba9-4faa-81ee-6b6aff8acc36

I did not intend to offend you, EWT1638 in anyway.

I amend my statement to say that for most people masks aren’t dangerous. This article talks about that as well as some myths about masks.

Also, suggests protective shields as alternatives for some.

I have also read some articles that debate the merit of masks.

I just prefer to err on the side of caution and if a store or a doctor’s office wants me to wear a mask I will comply as they don’t bother me.

I will say I am glad I am retired from teaching and don’t have to wear a mask all day!
 
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
 
Phoiph,

I waiting on the booster shot for now to see how it plays out. SARSCovid 19 is new and science is evolving. Just as the virus is evolving.

The great flu pandemic of 1918-1919 eventually ended and flu strains since then have not been as dangerous. Maybe that will happen with Covid, as well.

When we were kids we had to get 4 shots of the polio vaccine. That would be the initial shot and 3 boosters before the age of 5. That is just one example. So boosters are not unique to Covid.

In a way, the yearly flu shot is a booster, albeit trying to match that year’s variant. I don’t get the flu shot but my mom and brother do with no ill effects. I personally had a bad reaction to the one flu shot I got, so no more for me.

I am a bit more hesitant on the booster than my initial covid vaccine partially because I just had the vaccine in May, partially because I want to see how the virus and pandemic evolve, and partially because I believe the T cells will still offer protection even if the antibody count is low.

If people choose not to be vaccinated but they work around people then I hope they will get tested for Covid regularly. I know tests aren’t prefect but again I would err on the side of caution.

I am not for a vaccine mandate that says get the vaccine or lose your job. I don’t mind those that say get the vaccine OR get tested regularly.
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
Except, this is not a regular vaccine (like the flu shot, polio, etc.) that prevents infection or spread, so as the MD implied in the last article I posted, a "leaky" "vaccine" is likely to promote continual variants.

Therefore, Covid may not fade as other flu strains eventually have. Boosters will likely continue to be produced as different variants evolve...possibly perpetually.

What do you think about the successful efforts of many docs to prevent and treat, which have been largely ignored and outright suppressed? Do you not think there might be something wrong with this picture?
 
Posted by hadlyme (Member # 6364) on :
 
October 1999. I had my first ever flu shot.

Within hours I started with the weirdest symptoms I had ever had.

8 months later, 12 specialists later, scopes from every end multiple times, MRI Scans done on every inch of my body, blood tests too many to remember, chemical testing, metal testing, you name it... I went through it.

All to find out at the end with ONE more test sent to Igenex, that I had Lyme and Babesiosis.

I will never, ever, ever, chance a vaccine of any type in my body ever, ever again.

I will not go through the feeling like I was dying, going into a coma, vibrations and tingling in legs and feet, pain from every joint... you name it, I had it.

I have Zithromax, Diflucan, Doxy AND Ivermectin that I have from my LLMD that I pulse now and live a pretty normal life.

I will lose my job on Dec 3rd if my healthcare facility that I work in doesn't accept my medical exemption. I don't care. I will not subject myself to those type of health issues again.

Yes, it's a 50/50 will I react or won't I.

I'm not willing to take the chance.

I take my Vit D3, Zinc, Vit C's and so far, I believe I have had a variant twice. Our 15 min antibody test that our little rural hospital has came back negative, but they have all sorts of excuses that it's not 100% correct most of the time. (as with most of the testing for Covid)

That's my take on this. We all need to do what we deem best for ourselves, but this forcing, mandating crap is not what should be happening. Choices. My choice is nope, nada.

Best wishes to you all. I've been on this journey now since 1999......
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
I'm sorry to hear that, hadlyme.

I am hoping with the Southwest Airlines debacle, etc., mandates will eventually be overturned. I truly hope this is before Dec 3rd for your sake.
 
Posted by kgg (Member # 5867) on :
 
Hadlyme, thanks for sharing. I was functional and working as a RN until I took the three government mandated for nurses Hep B series injections. Then started my Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia symptoms. And my journey to figure out what was wrong with me for years until I learned I had chronic Lyme from childhood tick bites.

Years ago, my husband prevailed on me to get the H1N1 flu vaccine because it was so virulent. I had not had a flu shot in 10 years. I did. Three weeks of feeling horrible with shooting pains all over my body started the next day. And that was a preservative-free one.


Needless to say, I am like you. I will never take another vaccine again. And it saddens me that so many people are willing to hand over their personal freedoms in the name of fear.
 
Posted by LSG Scott (Member # 21624) on :
 
this whole thread really speaks to the BS thats out here
 
Posted by LymeLaura (Member # 6624) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by map1131:
News FLASH Hiker...

that new drug is Ivermectin being renamed by Merck.

I'm sick and tired of fricking games being played by pharma, medical establishment, CDC, NIH, AMA, Powers that be currently trying to control American lives. They are LIARS and THIEVES!

For any Lyme sufferer to fall for one word that Fauci and his establishment have said in the last 19 months....is beyond me. Fauci was part of creating this virus. He used our tax dollars to do it.

Pam

No, the new antiviral by Merck is not Ivermectin. Where do people come up with this nonsense?

It's an anti-viral for COVID, just like Tamiflu is an anti-viral for flu.
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
Merck's patent for Ivermectin expired in 1996.

After interest in this inexpensive drug's effectiveness for Covid surged, Merck put out a statement denouncing its use.

Merck's newly formulated drug was already in the works, and has already been funded via our tax dollars to the tune of 1.2 billion.
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
Informative interview with Dr. Peter McCullough on Covid, variants, masks, vaccines, preventative and early treatment, etc.

https://youtu.be/xWBC-JX6lsg

Dr. McCullough is an internist, cardiologist, epidemiologist and a full professor of medicine at Texas A&M College of Medicine in Dallas. He also has a master’s degree in public health and is known for being one of the top five most-published medical researchers in the US.
 
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
 
He is a really wise and knowledgeable doctor.
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
Agreed...a voice of reason, with a focus on practical preventatives and treatment.

If only he had been in Fauci's position...
 
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
 
If vaccines are not helpful then why in Texas, Florida, Alabama, Missouri, Illinois etc, are the majority of the patients in ICU or dying unvaccinated? Can’t change those facts.

Yes, the vaccines are wearing off now.

I have known several people who have had Covid twice approximately a year apart. Guess their natural immunity against Covid didn’t last.

Just like immunity against last year’s flu doesn’t last for this year’s flu.

Talk to your doctor about this information to make your decisions about Covid vaccines and treatment.

Listerine is not going to prevent Covid as Covid usually comes in through the nose.

I enjoyed listening to his info on the treatments.
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
Hiker,

A lot depends on where one gets their "facts", and how those numbers are interpreted.

There have been many legitimate questions raised regarding manipulation of testing thresholds, counting, causes of death, etc...enough to at least view "the facts" with a critical eye.
 
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
 
Phoiph,

Seems like you are saying I don’t have a critical eye. I beg to differ.

But your mind is not going to change no matter what facts are put in front of you.

Too bad the vaccines have not been tweaked for the delta variant since that variant makes up 90+% cases in the world
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
Hiker, you don't know my mind, or what will change it.

My mind is not strictly on one side; but I believe the overwhelming majority of the information we are receiving is one-sided.

Therefore, I am presenting another side, offered by a legitimate professional.

To me, the "vaccines" will become a lifetime series of variant boosters, with loss of rights, jobs and privileges for those that do not comply.

To me this is unsustainable and unacceptable.

There are other obvious avenues that need to be explored, including prevention and treatment, and I question why there the emphasis is not there, where it should be, don't you?

This is what I mean by interpreting the "facts" and information we are receiving with a critical eye. What is the motive here? Is it truly on our health and well being?
 
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
 
Didn’t I just say that I enjoyed listening to the doctor’s information on treatment? Furthermore more emphasis has been put in treatment. Pfizer, for example, has a new drug that could easily be dispensed to the world.

Prevention seems pretty simple: avoid crowded indoor areas, wear masks, if you feel ill stay away from others, proper ventilation in rooms, eat a healthy diet etc. and if you wish, get vaccinated.

Getting tested before seeing loved ones at major gatherings might be helpful, too.

Aaron Rogers may not have been very sick from Covid, but his case was caught via testing. Hopefully he didn’t spread it to others who might have become more ill.

We will eventually get the Covid pandemic under control and when that happens boosters may not be needed or needed so often.

I do not believe the overwhelming majority of the information we are receiving is one sided. That would be saying that every country in the world is conspiring together to give misinformation.

That would be saying every county health department in every state in our nation and every hospital is conspiring to give misinformation.

This I do know. Three of my friends have died from Covid. None of my friends have died or had ill effects from the vaccine.

My mom lives in a retirement center. Prior to the vaccines coming out there were many cases of Covid especially in the nursing home /rehab section. And quite a few in independent living where she is. These cases were brought in by people who worked there.

Since the vaccine there has not been a single case of Covid among the independent living residents. There have been some in the nursing home section but there is a high turnover of people on and out of rehab there and not all might have been vaccinated.

And I am sure some cases were due to breakthrough.

Some people were skeptical about the polio vaccine when it came out. And I am sure some were skeptical about the smallpox vaccine. You don’t see those in the USA anymore.

I looked up medical records yesterday and I had 6 polio vaccines as a child. Obviously none since.

Keep in mind that Covid 19 is a new disease. It appeared only 2 years ago. You can’t expect perfect treatments or perfect prevention in that amount of time.

And Phoiph, I am always happy to see you present the other side. You just don’t seem to like it when I don’t agree with everything.
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
Hiker,

I'm happy to agree to disagree; nothing personal here...and I sincerely hope we can continue to publicly voice our views and differences in this country.

I can tell by your reply that we are seeing the "big picture" through different lenses, and that is OK.
 
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
 
https://www.fastcompany.com/90699148/a-popular-covid-19-drug-may-not-help-women-new-study-shows

This article talks about the steroid treatment that the Texas doctor recommended. A Canadian study shows it helps men but NOT WOMEN!

Still so much to learn about treatments for Covid.
 
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
 
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10217695/Unvaccinated-Americans-twice-likely-hospitalized-seven-times-likely-die-Covid.html

About vaccines
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
I agree that there is still so much to learn about treatment...

But WHY is there still so much to learn about prevention and treatment When they can mass produce a "vaccine" at warp speed?

Why was/is the "vaccine" the only focus?

Many effective and inexpensive prevention and treatment protocols used by legitimate doctors have been censored and removed from public view.

Sadly, like many LLMD's, many of these docs have had to go under the radar to treat their patients.

Instead (as mentioned at the end of the "fastcompany" article posted above), the media and public sets their sights on the future drug as the new big thing.

Dexamethasone was only one of several treatment options that Dr. McCullough mentioned in the interview.

If it turns out to only prevent deaths in males and is less effective for females, than so be it...that's still helpful for half of the population. There are more options available.

For example, can you imagine how many lives might have been saved if there had been a prevention campaign when the low Vitamin D level/Covid death connection was discovered early on?

Free testing and Vitamin D supplementation could have been one of many inexpensive prevention strategies to improve people's awareness and immune health.

You have to dig for that information...but we sure hear a lot about the next great drug roll out!
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
Why didn't anyone act on this?

https://www.nutraingredients.com/Article/2020/12/21/Experts-send-Vitamin-D-and-Covid-19-open-letter-to-world-s-governments

https://vitamindforall.org/letter.html
 
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
 
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/17/wearing-masks-single-most-effective-way-to-tackle-covid-study-finds

The above is about mask wearing.

I think the initial focus was on prevention in terms of social, distancing, personal hygiene and then mask wearing.

To learn what drugs or supplements work to prevent Covid takes more time and double blind studies need to be done. Or enough studies done that their data can be collectively analyzed. That takes time.

Does it take more time than developing a vaccine? I don’t know the answer.
 
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
 
https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2021/Q4/researchers-study-the-link-between-vitamin-d-and-inflammation.html

This study suggests that vitamin D is indeed helping in moderating Inflammation caused by T cells but also suggests it is not the type of vitamin D you would buy at a drugstore (like vitamin D3)

Too much vitamin D3 is harmful.
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
Hiker...

Please clarify, because it sounds like what you're saying is that Vitamin D, which has been used safely forever (and had already proven effective as a preventative against death from Covid19 when the letter went out to governments), wouldn't have been a viable option because it would've taken too much time to do lengthy studies?

But...it is OK to inject a brand new, experimental mRNA therapy on a global scale...without the lengthy studies and testing normally required of a new drug or vaccine?
 
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
 
The article you posted says the letter is based on multiple observances as well as RCTs.

I wish they had listed some of the randomized controlled trials.

Also says may take 10 times daily amount recommended by UK.

Seems like different studies have different results. What they agree on is vitamin D helps inflammation.

I guess with a pandemic they are desperate to get a better prevention.

And I will repeat too much Vitamin D can harm the body. No harm in taking the amount in the UK letter as long as you monitor with blood tests. Fat soluble vitamins get stored and can cause liver and kidney issues.
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
Did you read the actual letter signed by over 200 doctors and scientists (second link)?

You will find references and studies.

Regarding safety, they're not promoting mega doses. Here's a quote from the letter:

"...Vitamin D’s safety is more like that of face masks. There is no need to wait for further clinical trials to increase use of something so safe, especially when remedying high rates of deficiency/insufficiency should already be a priority..."
 
Posted by tammybrown (Member # 52471) on :
 
thank you for sharing the information, it's important now
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
I agree. Glad the discussion is helpful.
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
As of February 1, Austria is mandating "vaccinations" for their entire population, and currently imposing a lock down for unvaccinated citizens only, with fines imposed. Papers will be checked for anyone in public.

Other countries are following, imposing fines and refusing public services and government assistance, access to resources, etc., to the unvaccinated only.

Maybe they haven't heard mRNA therapy doesn't prevent infection or spread? Or that infected people, regardless of vaccination status carry the same load of virus and are equally contagious?

Are we next?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/11/19/not-just-austria-here-are-the-countries-making-covid-19-vaccination-compulsory-for-everyone/?sh=211106c04bf0

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10203329/Anger-mounts-cops-start-enforce-Austria-Covid-lockdown-divides-society-two.html
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
Pro-vax doctor explains why Covid19 shots shouldn't be mandated for all Americans:

Opinion: Why COVID-19 Vaccines Should Not Be Required for All Americans | National News | US News
https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/why-covid-19-vaccines-should-not-be-required-for-all-americans
 
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
 
I'm still amazed and shocked.
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
The lockdowns and mandates are creating huge crowds of demonstrators, protestors, and rioters now, when keeping people apart is their goal...
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
An interpretation of the statistics we're receiving:

https://newsxpres.com/how-covid-19-jab-benefits-are-exaggerated/
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
https://www.science.org/content/article/hope-lyme-disease-new-vaccine-targets-ticks

They are hoping it would create a skin reaction at the bite (itching redness) in hopes that the person would pull off the tick before it can transmit disease. It doesn't prevent transmission, however they are thinking of also "loading" it with mRNA that targets the pathogen.

We can only wonder how someone's immune system who has/has had chronic Lyme would react.
 
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
 
We are fine in our state.

(listed above)
 
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Phoiph:
https://www.science.org/content/article/hope-lyme-disease-new-vaccine-targets-ticks

They are hoping it would create a skin reaction at the bite (itching redness) in hopes that the person would pull off the tick before it can transmit disease. It doesn't prevent transmission, however they are thinking of also "loading" it with mRNA that targets the pathogen.

We can only wonder how someone's immune system who has/has had chronic Lyme would react.

No, thank you.
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
Let's not forget there was a Lyme vaccine that was taken off the market.

I know someone badly injured by that one...horrible relapse and has not recovered.
 
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
 
I do remember! Absolutely!
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
Interesting perspective and interview by Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg, internal medicine doctor and former head of health at the Council of Europe, on how we got here:

https://www.freelysocial.com/the-who-is-an-institution-of-corruption/
 
Posted by kgg (Member # 5867) on :
 
Truth! imo. Thank you for posting.
 
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
 
Just reporting that I've done fine this past year and a half on 10 gms of Vit C/day, 5000 IU Vit D and a mushroom product, Host Defense, with 17 mushrooms in a capsule - 2 capsules in the am and pm M-F - mushrooms are anti-viral and we can just eat them.

I usually have gotten a flu a month, but not this past year and a half - barely just a couple.

My chiropractor has also done great - he has seen a couple hundred patients a week throughout this time. He takes a multi vit/min, extra zinc with quercetin and glutathione/NAC.

What bothered me from the beginning of covid is I saw no discussion about keeping the immune system strong. Obviously I and my chiropractor went into full boost mode from the beginning. No discussion of immune system strengthening? Something seemed off from the beginning, to me. Like they were trying to scare everyone without giving anyone any sense of control.

I also watched an online health summit in April 2020 - there was a doctor in Shanghai who said they weren't losing any covid patients there, including those with co-morbidities, because they were put on high dose IV Vit C.

Well, my lower dose Vit C is still in that category and I can stop or greatly reduce any flus I might be getting by upping it.

So I think this entire situation is overlooking, well us, basically - the fight we can bolster inside successfully.
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
Thank you, Robin~
 
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
 
"They" told us nothing about keeping ourselves healthy because .....

My husband and I take Zinc, selenium, Vit D 3 (with K2). He also takes melatonin and some Vit C, which I don't do well with.

He got a light case of CV we never knew he had until he was tested for antibodies last month.

Knock on wood, I have not been ill once for at least the past two years. I battle MCAS everyday, but that is another story.
 
Posted by Phoiph (Member # 41238) on :
 
Good to know, Lymetoo.

Just curious, were you also tested for antibodies?
 
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
 
No, but he was supposed to check last week. I ended up at a different lab than the one at his office, so I think it was left off.

When I get my results of the other blood work, I'll ask him about the CV if it wasn't done. My doctor's office sent me to the other lab due to the specific type of testing he wanted done.

I've had my antibodies checked twice over the past year and they came back negative both times. I think it's been at least 6 months since my last one.
 


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