sorry to those drs out there reading this but i no longer think of your profession with high regard. i grew up in a dr family with my father being a dr and my mother a nurse. i use to think so highly of the profession. i used to believe that drs were the smartest, most important, most compassionate people in our society. for me the last six months has been like finding out there is no santa clause (there isnt a santa clause right?). i use to believe that drs help people due to benevolent reasons. i now believe they help people for monetary and prestigious reasons. i have also come to the realization that drs are neither intelligent nor ingenuitive. my classic dr experience is as follows.
me: im not sure whats going on i have a buzzing through my head, my brain feels like its floating, i feel like i have the flu all the time, i am tired and not myself dr: hmm well im not sure it could be a number of things lets run some blood work two weeks later.. dr: how you doing me: not good i feel like $hit and am kind of freaked out dr: well your blood work came back and everything is fine so...lets do some more bloodwork two weeks later dr: how you doing me: not good i feel like $hit and im kind of freaked out dr: well you blood work came back and everything is fine so...either go to this dr or good luck me: ill got to this dr this dr: how you doing me: im not sure whats going on i have a buzzing through my head... this dr: hmm well im not sure it could be a number of things lets run some blood work two weeks later... two drs later....
are you trying to tell me it takes four years undergrad, four years medical school, two years residency to read a focking blood test? they give me my medical records an i can read the damn thing myself. this is the extent of their (excuse me for laughing) "SKILLS"? do i expect them to have all the answers? no. do i expect them to try to find the answers and do a little more work then sending blood to a lab? yes.
with all i have been through im still not convinced i have lyme. in my mind it is the only explanation that has made any sense and im near positive this is what i have. however im KEEPING AN OPEN MIND. i will never say that im 100% on this even though i have seen all that i have seen. yet every dr without doing any clinical work or any personal research says definitively that it is not lyme? what a sorry pathetic profession.
p.s. please dont respond with "there are some good drs out there" as there are always exceptions to every rule there are also some good used car salesmen out there.
Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :
That is not at all cool.
So sorry you've experienced what too many of us have over the years.
I've figured out why I am so sick about this situation you describe, other than having been through it over 150 times with different doctors myself.
Think about this...
Many of us were taught from the time we were little that if we ever had a problem or were in trouble, the following people would help us and we could trust them.
1. Our Priest or Minister
2. A policeman
3. A doctor
Oops! What a shock to learn differently.
And yes, to be treated like that is a lot like being told about Santa because we trusted and believed back then and grew up thinking these people on the list above were to be respected and even worshipped.
BUT.. please don't quit looking. Every one in a while you will stumble on one that has entered the field of medicine for the right reasons.
OK?
Posted by LightAtTheEnd (Member # 24065) on :
Before I got Lyme, I had a similar experience regarding two different health problems, each of which took me many years and many doctors to get diagnosed.
They all acted like I had something very strange that they had never seen before, or else like they suspected I was not telling the truth about my symptoms, and seemed entirely clueless, as well as uninterested, about what could be causing my symptoms.
It later turned out that both problems I had are quite common.
One of my problems was that I started getting terrible bronchitis every November, that would last until March.
I could barely breathe, my bronchia were swollen, and I coughed up phlegm 24 hours a day and could hardly snatch an hour of sleep here and there.
I was exhausted and desperate, and repeatedly fell into despair from the lack of oxygen and lack of hope.
I had to keep working through all of that, in order to survive. People edged away from me, sure that I had something highly contagious, although I never gave it to anyone I lived or worked with, so I knew it was not.
Everyone constantly seemed surprised that I wasn't better yet, and kept asking me why I hadn't tried X or Y remedy? (Believe me, I had.)
They were always offering cough drops. Would you go up to somebody who is bleeding to death and offer them a bandaid? I know they meant to be helpful, but good grief!
I knew way more about it than anyone around me, including, apparently, the doctors, due to personal experience and research.
For 5 years, I went back to at least a dozen different doctors, including some walk-in clinics, some GPs and some specialists, and--ironically--they constantly gave me antibiotics and told me to come back in 2 weeks if I wasn't better.
Every two weeks, I went back and told them I wasn't better, and was still having the same symptoms, the same that I had had the whole previous winter, and they said, "Oh, you must have caught another virus."
You would think they would teach them in medical school that antibiotics don't work on viruses.
One year, they gave me 8 progressively stronger antibiotics. While insisting I had randomly caught 8 separate viruses.
After 5 years of this, I was visiting an orthopedist during the winter, and he heard me wheezing and coughing and said, "Do you have asthma?"
"Do I have what?"
"You sound just like me, and I have asthma."
That was how the enlightened medical profession diagnosed me with asthma.
Then I proceeded to go through 7 more years during which I went to several more doctors, begging them to do something to prevent the bronchitis.
They gave me all kinds of inhalers and drugs that were meant to prevent the 20-minute wheezing attacks that I was familiar with as an asthma symptom, which was rarely a problem for me.
I told them the drugs had no effect whatsoever on my bronchitis. I got it just as bad when I was on them and when I got off them, same months every year. I could put it on my calendar, when I was going to be sick.
Through my own research over the years, I finally discovered that asthma is linked to inflammation, and inflammation can be reduced with a low carb diet.
I tried it, and it worked immediately. After 2 weeks on that diet, I warded off an attack of bronchitis easily. This winter, same thing.
Twelve years that I desperately begged many doctors to help me figure out the underyling cause of my problem, and I tried every drug and every home remedy and herb and old wives' tale, and NOT ONCE did any doctor ever suggest that it could have anything to do with my diet.
They didn't even believe that it was the same problem recurring over and over again. They kept saying it was a random new viral infection each time.
I racked my brain trying to figure out what I had done to acquire asthma suddenly, in adulthood--had I lived near too much pollution? What on earth could it be?
If only I had had one clue about the diet or the inflammation, I could have cured myself about 11 years sooner, and I never actually needed any of the drugs they gave me over the years, except maybe the rescue inhaler that helps with the occasional short wheezing attacks.
Now when I actually have something (Lyme) that can be helped by antibiotics, I had to fight my doctor to get some, go figure....
You would think that when they know what you have, and what causes it, and how to fix it, they would be thrilled to have a successful case, for once.
Instead, they deny that you have it, or deny that it has a cause, or deny that it has a treatment.
All that experience led me to realize earlier that I have to rely on myself to figure out what's going on with my health and what to do about it.
Nobody else cares as much as me, and I'm the only one with the power to do something about it.
Therefore, that previous bad experience probably saved me when I got bit by a tick. I did not take my doctor's word for it when she told me I didn't have Lyme, and I continued researching and got myself to an LLMD quickly. I am now improving.
It's not so much that doctors are good or bad, as that our whole medical system is structured to treat symptoms and not causes.
On top of that, medicine is too specialized, so if you go to a doctor of the left big toe, he or she will only determine whether or not you have one of the top 10 problems of the left big toe, and won't look at you overall and say, "What is going on with your health, and how can we fix it?"
Some doctors themselves get disillusioned after entering the field for altruistic reasons, and realizing that the medical industry doesn't quite work the way they imagined it.
I won't take my LLMD's word for things either, without doing my own research, but he does seem to take the attitude that we should look for the causes of my problems and fix them, and that all my health issues are probably interrelated.
He also appears to care whether I'm happy as well as whether I'm physically well.
I was just joking with him about how glad I am to write him a check because of those attitudes. He might actually be worth the money.
I also know an honest used car salesman. I even got a Christmas present this year that said "From Santa," so who knows?
I'm not the person to defend doctors in general or to tell you that you should start trusting them again. You should always think for yourself, do your own research, listen to your body, and trust your instincts.
I'm sorry for your disillusionment and frustration. It seems like most people around here have gone through something similar, which really proves that life just isn't fair sometimes.
Hang in there, and don't give up hope. You will find some help and get better. Just because it's difficult to find doesn't mean there isn't any.
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
After all the doctor bleck, I now see one that restores my expectation of what a doctor should be - caring about their patients, a good listener, knowledgeable, curious about all things medical, and accessible. And a really nice staff to boot.
My suggestion is to keep trying to find someone you can work with.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
re: My suggestion is to keep trying to find someone you can work with.
Until you go broke...
This is why I do my own research. I don't know if it's holding up my progress but "I'm doing it my way"... Alot of the expensive specialists don't really know everything either.
It's nice to have support & help but it comes at a price. I don't have the money to spend on this any more. So, what am I supposed to do - go & die somewhere?
I don't think so... I live in a state where natropathic physicians are subject to fines & jail time. There are alot of paradoxes here but it's not progressive when it comes to medical care...
There are no guarantees with any doctor. You just have to measure how much you want to spend vs. how it's helping. Sometimes it takes years to know if who you are seeing is really going to help you or not & if it's worth the money.
It's not easy.
Posted by TnFlowerChild (Member # 24717) on :
Hey sparkle7 - where in the south are you? From your post I believe you are in TN too!!!
I too, am disillusioned by the medical community!
I have learned you MUST be proactive in your own care and make your own choices/decisions in what you are going to try or you are not much more than a lab rat for Big Pharma - any body see the "news" on the osteo drugs today???
The first time I looked into some of those drugs, I noticed the "half life" of some were in excess of 10 years - stuff shouldn't be in your body that long that wasn't put there in the first place - read books by Dr Brownstein!
One of his sayings goes something like... you can't continue to poision or block certain receptors long term and expect good long term results. (The way he says it is better...)
Hang in there JunkYardWily - it sounds like this group can truly say "I know where you are coming from!"
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- I'm only responding to the title. For as many horrible doctors, there are still many wonderful ones.
Also, remember all those doctors who put people back together. There are many specialties that have nothing to do with lyme.
I have to say that if I'm ever in need of being pieced back together, I have a great deal of respect for anyone who knows how to to that. -
Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
I for one am so blessed to have a PCP who has been with me from day one. 11 years. I know it's beyond his ability to heal me, cure me or fix everything I need fixing.
But he's there to support me, encourage me and help me fix me. Quite frankly I've done the majority of research on my specific needs and possiblities. He's not a lyme expert. Well, he might be closer now.
I don't think of docs as gods. But he is one of my angels. For that I'm blessed.
Pam
Posted by emla999/Lyme (Member # 12606) on :
For years I went to doctor after doctor and they done nothing but make me worse. And all but one of those doctors dismissed chronic Lyme disease as the cause of my health problems. It was those doctors ignorance of chronic infections relationship to health problems that caused me to suffer greatly with ongoing health problems.
But what about those medical doctors that misdiagnosed me.....what happened to them? They were rewarded. How? Well, they got to keep their job. Their medical license wasn't taken away from them. They weren't fired. They weren't reprimanded in any way. Actually, by now they have all probably gotten a pay raise and a pat on the shoulder. And some of them may have even gotten a "gift" from the drug companies for prescribing all of those pain meds., antidepressant drugs etc.. Essentially they have been rewarded in spite of their obvious ignorance.
So, eventually I came to the conclusion that a modern allopathic medical doctor is one of the few professions in the world where ignorance is rewarded !!!!
And quite possibly this ignorance by MD's is a requirement for the very survival of the current modern allopathic medical system. The health insurance companies, the drug companies and possibly others all need the medical doctors to be IGNORANT to facts. At least that's my opinion.
How many other professions can you think of that are rewarded for being ignorant at their job??? Politicians??? Maybe some bank executives???
In most professions when you are ignorant at your job or simply not good at that job you are either fired or reprimanded in someway. And most definitely not rewarded!!!!
For example.....
Lawyers, aren't rewarded for being ignorant at their job. If a lawyer was ignorant at their job then they would be fired or reprimanded in someway. Secretaries aren't rewarded for being ignorant at their job. If a mechanic was ignorant at his job then they would be fired or reprimanded in someway. Even a hamburger flipper isn't rewarded for being ignorant at their job. If they were ignorant at their job then they would be fired or reprimanded in someway.
In my opinion a medical doctor is being ignorant when they quickly dismiss chronic Lyme Disease or another chronic infections as the cause of your health problems. Plus most MD's seem to know next to nothing on how to diagnose, test and treat those chronic infections. Wouldn't that qualify a medical doctor to be ignorant at their job/profession?????
A medical doctor is also being ignorant when they seemingly know next to NOTHING about nutrition, toxins and detoxification.
Now I don't mean to say that all doctors are ignorant at their job and that they are complete idiots. But in my opinion the medical doctor is a profession in which ignorance is quite often rewarded.
Posted by JunkYardWily (Member # 24271) on :
i found drs to be not just ignorant but also lazy. its so lazy to dismiss symptoms like nuro problems, tremors, and so forth as being psychosomatic. is it possible? yes. is it even close to likely. no. its just a lazy way out.
its so lazy to dismiss lyme just because they dont want to do any research on it.
its so lazy and INSULTING to order blood work, look at results and say well everything looks ok. dr after dr i went to did these thing. no just one of them, ALL of them.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
You're right, JunkYard!
I've been blessed with a good LLMD and now a good PCP .. both have had family members with Lyme and my PCP HAS lyme. That changes their thinking bigtime!
Posted by Dekrator48 (Member # 18239) on :
I understand what you are saying about the lab work.
Some Dr's don't know what to do if they can't figure out the problem through labs.
Many Dr's could really stand to improve their clinical diagnostic skills.
I love the saying...."Treat the patient, not the lab work."
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
TNflowerchild- I'm in SC. Both TN & SC have laws against natropathic physicians. If a doctor of natropathy is practicing in either SC or TN - they can get jail time & a $500 fine...
I think there are a few around but they are very low key. I'm not sure if your chances are better with a natropathic physician but at least they would consider treatments outside of the basic ones.
I have had a hard time with doctors. I used to live in NJ where I fist became ill. One would think that the doctors there would be familiar with Lyme. I went for 9 years with a Fibromyalgia diagnosis - I had no idea I might have had Lyme.
If I got treated earlier - I might have been well by now. I agree, when doctors make a mistake - we have to live with it...
I considered suing but my tests were mostly inconclusive. Just like JunkYardWily was saying. What proof would I have for malpractice for all the doctors I went to see that did not even consider Lyme?
It's frustrating... Just like all lawyers, cops, etc. aren't bad - it's rare to find a doctor that isn't f-ed up in the head... I guess I just take that as a given & try to do my own research to get well. We do need objective opinions or prescriptions from time to time. So, it is necessary to have a doctor.
You just have to try to do the best you can. I would refuse payment to doctors who are rude & condescending. Remember - we pay them, they work for us.
Posted by kam (Member # 3410) on :
I think it is like all professions....there are so good ones, some not so good ones and some who are there just for the income.
not able to read what others wrote right now.
Posted by thatbrian (Member # 23520) on :
After hundreds of Dr visits for various problems, I have to agree with you JunkYard.
Almost all of the doctors that I have seen are incompetent, uncaring and lazy. If the answer doesn't jump up and bite them in the a**, then they do not know what to do, or they don't care enough to find out. They only know how to handle the most cut and dried problems, and even then. . .
Posted by TerryK (Member # 8552) on :
emla - I could really identify with your post.
The "art" of medicine has been lost. The days of the country doctor who would try to figure out how to fix the problem rather than cover it up with drugs is gone.
Now we have mechanics who can only diagnose and treat from strict, narrow definitions. Everything must be proven with double blind studies. Unfortunately, many of those studies are paid for by those who have conflicts of interest so the studies are sometimes bogus and/or misinterpreted as we saw in the IDSA hearing.
A very sad state of affairs when the medical profession cannot get out of the way of those who could actually help people.
Terry
Posted by TnFlowerChild (Member # 24717) on :
sparkle7 - yep! I'm diagnosed with Fibromyalgia!! and Chronic Fatigue ... and...., but it's NOT Lyme... "2 tests" said so!! So that MUST be right!
Just found my first test papers - 7/8/04 can't really tell you what I'm looking at, but: Lyme Disease - negative B.Burgdorf - serology nonreactive - confirmatory not performed
Posted by JunkYardWily (Member # 24271) on :
you want to know the worst thing about these doctors? no only are they too lazy to find out what the real cause of a 10 year old being in a wheel chair so they call it psyc problems. not only are they too lazy to do a tiny bit of research on lyme so they can do clinical dx. not only are they too stupid to be able to do anything but order blood tests and read paperwork but not helping would be one thing...
the worst thing is they attack those drs who arent lazy, worthless, dumbf**ks. those drs who arent robots who figure out something about lyme and treat it accordingly are attack by the absent minded drones (90% of drs) and some are forced to stop helping people as a result.
if were right about lyme (remains to be seen) then God have mercy on them for what they have done to hundreds of thousands of people
Posted by street129 (Member # 23472) on :
well the big kicker is my 89 year old dr. told me today that she is the one with the education, and
the degree, so she knows how to treat patient, and all patient needs to listen to her. i mention to her about probiotics, she flipped her wig and started yelling ..
there is no such thing as probiotics...this woman is still in the stone age, dont she look at television, they talk about probiotics on tv now...
she's a bowl of crap, if you asked me. i laugh my way out the door. im so done with her. i have to find and i need a pcp, for other things...
Posted by just don (Member # 1129) on :
Thats the docs I resent the most...
All those that say I am educated and smart,,,you are NOT,,,
therefore dont read anything about your probs,,rely on MY expertise!!
Those that dont yell out "there is NO lyme",,,at least they listen for a couple minutes
those that do yell "there is no lyme here" have there mind closed and have made up there mind whats wrong with you before they walk into the exam room.
Reminds me of the court room on that aspect.
Willy, how old are you?? Have you checked out bart thru and thru?? There is a good bart doc near you!!
AND a good LLMD,,,are you seeing one?? Maybe a FEW good docs can improve your overall vision of them in general.
Now family is an entire different experience. 'ALL' rules out the window there.
good luck and be well,-just don-
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I think alot of it has to do with "cover your a$$". They don't want malpractice suits. So, they just have tunnel vision when it come to treating anything.
They don't have time to do the studying about new treatments & things outside of the box. The other part is that they have the Feds breathing down there necks about prescribing things that may be a red flag - like pain meds.
Also, they have to pay back huge student loans & insurance against malpractice. Not to mention all the paper work for insurance companies...
The situation all around is anti-health. The only benefit they get for working so hard to be doctors is when the drug companies sponsor seminars in Hawaii for new drugs or handouts of $$$ they get to dispense Zoloft (or whatever drug).
Doesn't seem like it's a good deal to be a doctor these days. It's kind of funny that they send doctors to school for free in Cuba... What's the big problem here?
It's such a mess - I don't know how things are going to improve with the health care system here.
No wonder my GP was practically throwing samples of Zoloft at me when I first became ill 15 years ago. She said, "Just try this & you'll be fine..." She was probably on it!
Posted by sunshine32274 (Member # 24771) on :
I have no faith in MD's NONE! I would rather die than go to the hospital or any MD other than my LLD.
For four years I went to the doctor every week. I was in the hospital so many times I can't remember. They took my gallbladder out for NO reason. I had seizures in the hospital and they told me I was fine. I had internal shingles that was the best diagnosis.
They finally wrote me off. They came to the conclusion that I was a drug seeking psych. patient.
I am sitting here right now in so so much pain and I would love to go to the hospital just to get some help but I would rather suffer. Nobody should feel this way towards the medical community. I called the hospital and asked them if I came and if I was admitted would I still get to take my medicine for Lyme and they said that would be up to the doctor treating me. I know they will not give me my medicine so I will suffer.
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I even got a Christmas present this year that said "From Santa," so who knows?