This is topic Soy milk - can't remember why to avoid it. in forum General Support at LymeNet Flash.

To visit this topic, use this URL:

Posted by jennyflyer (Member # 12792) on :
Can someone refresh my memory as to why we should avoid soy products, particularly soy milk?

Posted by ping (Member # 6974) on :
Originally posted by jennyflyer:
Can someone refresh my memory as to why we should avoid soy products, particularly soy milk?


Jennifer, there could be several reasons....

There are general allergies/intolerances to soy; most people with TBD's have these allergies/intolerances. Also, soy is high in manganese, which some LLMD's (not all) believe makes Borrelia infection more active.
Posted by jennyflyer (Member # 12792) on :
Hmmm, wonder if I'm allergic. Are the intolerances of a gastrointestinal nature?
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
It also can have something to do with estrogen
Posted by TnFlowerChild (Member # 24717) on :
Soy can make you crazy!!! [Smile] Actually it is considered an "estrogen protagonist" and can contribute to "estrogen dominance" - which may sound good, but it isn't!!!

Dr. John Lee (deceased now) studied the effects of estrogen dominance and it's role in breast cancer and other issues. I listened to a 2 cd lecture he had given and he was amazing!

A friend is very sensative to soy and didn't think about a "power bar" having soy.... she like to have had a pyschotic episode just from that... extreme case!

Try unsweetened almond milk if you can - I actually like it, and I much prefer real whole milk over anything, but for health reasons...
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Yes, many of the intolerances are in the GI tract... can be serious if you are sensitive to it. ( and you may not know you're sensitive )

Soy binds our guts and makes it harder to absorb nutrients, just like gluten, corn, and dairy can.
Posted by massman (Member # 18116) on :
Unfermented soy is not digestable.
The proteins (amino acid chains) are too long for the body to break down effectively.

Fermented soy the aminos are broken down so it is more easily digested.
Posted by ping (Member # 6974) on :
Wow, jenny, you received some great responses!

Re: Unfermented soy - I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS TRUE, but I have Japanese and other Asian friends who say that only in the US are major soy products that you find at most grocers, like Tofu and some other products, NOT fermented. And they won't touch non-fermented soy. They say that without the fermentation process, the product is virtually worthless, with regard to the health benefits.

As I said, I don't know if what my friends say is true, but when I eat lunch or dinner at their homes, it's a noticeable difference in GI issues, etc.

Anyone with more info? Links?
Posted by jennyflyer (Member # 12792) on :
Thank you everyone. Ya now I remember my OB/GYN telling me to stay away from soy because of breast cancer running in my family. (mom, aunt, cousins)

I am going to try almond milk. Is it safe to say yogurt is also out of the questin? Oddly enough, I could not tolerate kefir.

Wow, such a misconception out there about soy, I and most people I know have always thought it's good for us.
Posted by massman (Member # 18116) on :
I have been taught that soy was not eaten by orientals until fermenting was started about 1200 years ago.

Marketing for soy is what has led to the concept that it is healthy.

Some interesting articles on soy can be seen at
Posted by TnFlowerChild (Member # 24717) on :
I can't find my links right off hand, but if you google "dangers of soy" you will get some interesting information...

One I read compares having children drink soy milk to giving them 10 birth control pills at once! Pretty radical!

But if you consider how early children are going into puberty these days (age of developing breast tissue, etc.) compared to 20 years ago, by biologist stand point it is unheard of in the "natural world."

Changes of this magnitude slowly evolve over many years - not what is being seen now! What is causing this?

If you look at the soy (for one) and the other growth hormones given to the animals that are a part of our food chain (and antibiotics)... what the human race has done to ourselves!!!!

I'll get off my soapbox....
Posted by MDW005 (Member # 22706) on :
off the topic just a tad bit...I heard that almonds are also good for nausea. just my 2 cents. (almond milk)
Posted by ping (Member # 6974) on :
"The Politics of Food"! How appropriate can a title get, I ask you! I definitely agree with that!

Great link, massman. From reading the references to soaking, heating, etc., virtually all soy preps fail to give soy the ability to provide the health benefits touted by so many.

If not correct, please let me know, because I need to find a way around eating too much of it at my friends' table.
Posted by massman (Member # 18116) on :
Tell your friend you fell in loooooove with the fermented stuff ?

Developed allergies to the unfermented stuff ?
Posted by ping (Member # 6974) on :
I actually do love the food they serve, fermented or not and don't have probs with it now. Guess as long as I don't 'breach my GI threshold'...
Posted by Hoosiers51 (Member # 15759) on :
Aside from the good reasons above, here are more: If it's not organic, you can bet it is genetically modified. There are studies indicating genetically modified foods may interfere with the human body in negative ways. Long term effects of GMO's aren't really known.

Studies have linked soy usage with more cancers in women. This is likely due to the estrogen issue many others have mentioned (think prescription hormone replacement therapy, and how cancer rates decreased once this was no longer handed out like candy). Though who knows, maybe it's the GMO issue too that's leading to the soy-cancer link.

Don't EVER give a child soy. I wouldn't give it to a pregnant woman either. Can't comment on if fermented soy is safer for these groups.

If you eat soy, it should be fermented and in moderation, and it should be organic.

Another reason to avoid the tofu that is sold in many Asian restaurants as a meat substitute---it is commonly formed/manufactured in large aluminum containers. If you are trying to avoid heavy metals like aluminum, there's another reason to not eat tofu.
Posted by Hoosiers51 (Member # 15759) on :
Also, about Silk brand soy milk...

...I used to drink it before I was more informed. Back then it was organic and carried the organic seal. That made me feel safer.

Then, even after learning about the estrogen effects, I would still get a soy latte on occasion, thinking that at least it was organic. (in the past, Silk never had a non-organic version)

You'll notice that now, Silk brand is no longer organic. Which not only means pesticides, but it's gentically modified.

What's interesting is that Silk didn't change their label in any other way, other than taking off the tiny organic seal, so many Silk users are probably still under the assumption that the product is safer than it is.
Posted by ping (Member # 6974) on :
Thanks Hoosiers! All you've said is true, unfortunately. And the GMO's... (Think massman had a great link on this subj.) I try not to be paranoid about everything concerning food, but it's difficult not to be, if one has even done the slightest bit of investigation at all.
Posted by Hoosiers51 (Member # 15759) on :
What's funny too is that I am not overly paranoid about many foods....I still eat fast food a couple times a month. I eat sugar in moderation. I eat Papa John's every once in awhile (though a fraction of what the average American does).

When I have a choice, I buy healthy foods. But I am not "afraid" of the non-healthy stuff. I control what I can and don't sweat the small stuff.

But you will never see me eating anything with soy as a main ingredient, unless it's fermented like miso.

I think the important thing is just being informed, so that you at least aren't eating something unhealthy, thinking it's healthy.

I don't think there are too many foods out there we need to fear, unless it's something that wouldn't have existed 1,000 years ago. Soda? Cavemen didn't drink it. High fructose corn syrup? Hard to make before factory farming came about. American cheese? I'm pretty sure a cheesemaker from 100 years ago wouldn't be able to duplicate that if he/she tried.

If you're getting enough green stuff, it's probably counteracting most of the "bad."
Posted by jennyflyer (Member # 12792) on :
How do we know if it's fermented vs unfermented?

That's terrible about the Silk brand, although I've never had it. Actually, besides the occasional edamame when I have sushi, I never have soy.

Definitely going with almond milk.
Posted by Hoosiers51 (Member # 15759) on :
Fermented soy has an intense, pungent flavor. Miso paste is the only example of fermented soy I know of off the top of my head. It is the ingredient in miso soup, and miso is also used to flavor some stir frys, or to flavor glazes/marinades in Asian or some gourmet restaurants.

I've only had miso once or twice. It usually comes in a tube, like toothpaste, if I remember correctly. If you eat miso a lot, you'll want to be sure it's organic, non-GMO.

So basically 99% of the soy Americans eat is not fermented. Also keep in mind that "vegetable oil" is usually partially soybean oil. Soybean oil is the main ingredient in Crisco. Yup, non-organic, which means genetically modified.

After hearing that, I never use Crisco in cooking (unless I make boxed brownies or cake which I do very rarely)....I try to stick to Olive oil or virgin coconut oil for cooking meats and veggies. Canola oil may also be okay, not sure honestly.
Posted by Hoosiers51 (Member # 15759) on :
Slightly off topic, but....To learn more about Crisco (aka "vegetable oil"):

Check out the last paragraph under "Controversy." Talks about a legal loophole that enables them to use non-food safe pesticides. Scary! Crisco is soy and cottonseed oil.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Tempeh is also fermented and can be used similarly to the way tofu is used.
Posted by ping (Member # 6974) on :
Good info, Hoosiers and 6.

Hoosiers, unfortunately, all the Canola is GMO. Frankly, I think it's impossible to totally avoid GMO's now, unless you've got money to burn and time to shop till you drop for non-GMO items; I don't have either of those advantages, so just do the best I can.

There was a segment on CBS' Sunday Morning last year about GMO corn and an organic corn grower, growing in the same area. Organic grower says to forget it; the wind carries the pollen to fields, back and forth and can not be stopped. In fact, he says pollenation occurs from organisms grown many miles away. The same with pesticides... (Sigh) Alas, it's trajic.

Please excuse the thread hijack. I'll go now... Heat up my 'contaminated' lunch. [Frown]
Posted by jennyflyer (Member # 12792) on :
No, threat hijacks are good, we get more information this way that we may not have thought of even asking about. [Smile]

I only use olive oil for cooking and salads. For everything that requires oil, basically.

I swear sometimes it seems like everything available for consumption has some sort of problem. The stuff you think is good for you, winds up being bad.

And good point about having the time and money to eat healthy; it's expensive to eat healthfully.
Posted by massman (Member # 18116) on :
Soy sauuce is also fermented, isn't it ?

GMO is not labeled in this country (it is labeled in Europe) probably because BigAgribusiness controls government regulation.

We are so well protected [Wink]

NOT [cussing]
Posted by ping (Member # 6974) on :
Yes, soy sauce is fermented. However, as you probably already know, it has little or no nutritional value (except to raise your BP, if it's low). Still, many Asian foods just don't taste the same without it. Every once in a while, I take my life in my hands and use a few drops...

Re: GMO's. I think what the organic farmer said is likely true. Due to cross pollenation, GMO's are a done deal, at least with corn, wheat and these other staples.

Yes, our government does such a fine job at "protection". Wonder who or what the %(#* will protect us from THEM!

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3