Unfortunately I do not find comfort in any religious believe and I really envy those of you, who are rooted in a religion and trust somehow, that God (or destiny) is guiding you and that there's a sense to it all .
My question is: How do you manage on a spiritual level? Did you find comforting answers in the middle of all the trouble of a "lost life"?
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
Kadee, I'm not rooted in any spiritual or religious system, but rather I focus on facts, probabilities and possibilities.
The reason I didn't end my own life and lose my fight to Lyme and associated infections was because although I didn't know what was wrong with me at the time (I was undiagnosed), I knew that if I made a firm decision, that I could take "some" control. If I chose to live, I increased my chances of finding an answer.
If I lived plus resolved myself to actually search for an answer and a solution, then the probability substantially increased that I would likely reach my goal. At other times in history this way of thinking surely would have ended in death, but guess what?
It's the 21st century. A lot of things already exist right here and now, that can help solve the problem that I aface. Now the problem is using my mind and resources to find the right combination of tools.
So, I believe in myself. I believe in cause and effect. I believe that when I see something done over and over -- and a similar result takes place each time -- then chances are that when I go to do that same "something", that the result will match.
Other people have overcome this, so how did they do it? I just listened to them, read about them, and followed them.
Another good idea is to read books (if you can manage -- given Lyme). Reading books about beliefs, philosophies, and finding away that makes good sense to you is what will work best.
Each person needs to find their own way, but you'll know what works and doesn't work when you come to it -- you'll say "A-ha!."
So pick up some book ideas. Search on Amazon for example. Amazon UK/Ireland should be able to ship to Geramny? Maybe Germany has their own version now.
At any rate, searching for books about "Faith, Hope, Spirituality, Perseverance, inspiration." Things like that are places to begin. You can read reviews on the American Amazon site since there are more, but then purchase via another route.
I didn't really find anything comforting totally. The process is uncomfortable, painful, scary, and can feel hopeless at times. Sometimes you just have to hide in your bedroom, or come here. If you have family, friends or other people you trust, you can confide in them and trust that they'll be there to help you find your way.
If you know someone spiritual or religious who is adept at communication and has amazing ideas that give you that a-ha, then talk to them. You'll find them out there. Even I have "spiritual and religious" figures I turn to who I trust deeply.
For example. I am not a religious man, but I still would attend a local church because I felt the "A-ha" when I went. I knew I was sincerely cared about, and that while I didn't agree with much of what I was being told, I still knew there was much to learn and to share with that particular group. I believe that it's in my best interest to accept what I am ready to believe and receive rather than based on what anyone else tells me I should or shouldn't already know. Of course my way of thinking still earns me the "You're going to hell title once in blue moon, but let's face it, Hell -- if it existed beyond death -- would actually be a relief compared to living with Lyme Disease. See how I make a joke out of that absurdity? You take what you can, and you leave the rest no matter what you're learning.
You find peace when you're confused and hope when you're let down in some of the strangest places, but they are all around us. Lymenet is one, you....are one, God can be one, another person who inspires you can be one.
You'll be alright in this area, I'm optimistic, and do you know why? Because you increased the probability of finding your answer by asking these questions and actually searching for it! See how that works?
Posted by lymeladyinNY (Member # 10235) on :
I've read a lot of books about life after life. One book that meant a lot to me is called "Hello from Heaven" by Bill and Judy Guggenheim. I read it several times after my mom died.
The book helps the reader come to believe that we are destined for a wonderful place and that all we love is not lost.
I started out as agnostic. I then had a special-needs child, lost my mom, and got Lymed (badly!) within the span of a few years.
I devoured books that would help me spiritually. Christianity, for me, lacks that "certain something", though I do believe that Jesus is the son of God.
I wanted more, though. The God of the Old Testament didn't satisfy me. So much about Christianity didn't make sense for me.
I've explored Eckankar and I've read "Journey of Souls" by Michael Newton. It is fascinating.
I'm no longer agnostic and I do have a belief system now that makes me feel comfortable. It took a lot of reading and pondering.
The biggest impetus for change in my life, however, has been that I've experienced "weird" phenomena, especially when I was near death. This includes out-of-body experiences and dream visitations with my mom. Some might be alarmed about this, but for me it was not "evil" but very comforting.
I guess I'm saying it's a very personal journey, and whatever makes a person comfortable is what is "right" for that person.
For me, life is a school for learning lessons. I believe I chose the lessons I had to learn in this life long before I was born. Sometimes I wonder WHY I chose these particular sets of lessons because it has been so difficult! I keep thinking, "I will graduate from this school someday. Will I have an A on my report card, or an F?" I'm striving to be an A-student!
I hope you can find comfort somehow, someday. It came to me through much study and learning about different schools of thought.
Peace to you -
- Lymelady
Posted by jkmom (Member # 14004) on :
I used to struggle with this, too.
I do not understand why a child's life would be ruined the way my daughter's has and be ruined by something not understood or accepted if there is a plan somewhere.
I have given up on thinking it is anything other than random chance and am just hoping for the best. I haven't found any comfort in it other than knowing I am doing everything I can for her.
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
Like LymeLady, I took almost the same path through my process. I read similar books that she read, including the one "Hello From Heaven."
You will find this is a process and many here understand.
I know that the mechanics of the universe are arranged in such away, that given the main principles we understand, including electromagnetic spectrums, light, gravity and so forth -- that the nature of the primitive atom and the theory behind Quantum Mechanics -- that life is a series of constant change and "shifts" between balance and imbalance. Life is only possible when constant interruption is present on a subatomic level.
The lessons learned from the subatomic all the way up to our perceived world is the same. Imbalance is always present in order that balance too can exist.
Thankfully we humans have the ability mentally to "right a wrong, or choose what we believe best serves our interest." In this case, Lyme has the upper hand, it has evolved and is a predator, and we are the prey.
In order to outsmart it, we must find a method to kill it. I believe we have, but the science supporting it is sparse and primarily done by lay-people.
The larger issue however, is finding meaning and purpose within the suffering. Finding a sense of peace despite ongoing suffering. It is not possible. What is possible is having a little more control by having a better understanding in your mental repertoire of ideas to help you suspend some anxiety and to help you walk the tight rope a little easier.
I believe that random is at work, but that in itself, it has also found a way on the macroscopic level to "not" be random. Random gives birth to fate (coherent combination), fate gives birth to effects which are not random.
Let me explain this more simply. Look around you in your world at "natural" things. Symetry is all around you. Symetry is a sign of order. Yet, on a subatomic level, there doesn't appear to be order within the very object you're looking at. This is crucial. It's important, because what you see isn't actually stationary, it's constantly vibrating and changing direction and pulsing.
This is hard to understand until you look at your hand and realize you see no bacteria or anything strange teeming on it. Look under a high powered microscobe and you'll quickly find that what you thought was stationary, is actually moving with microbes and other small insects and other creatures.
What you can't perceive is the disorder that gives rise to the order.
Atoms are the next stage up. They are the most primitive form of order that is given rise from the "soup" of the quantum bath. Atoms have very specific functions, weights, and behave in very standard ways.
Mix them with other atoms and they can only fuse in so many combinations.
However, the more different kinds of atoms you fuse, you end up with molecules, which can be combined in billions and trillions upon trillions of different ways. Think of atoms like Hydrogen, Iron, Carbon and the other 130 + atoms like a huge alphabet. How many letters do we work with to create entire novels and wonderful works of English? Only 26. Imagine what you could do with hundred +, and then up front there?
Those combinations however are "not" random. They form bonds in very specific ways as molecules adapt to the fundamental laws that govern our universe.
So, when you look up at the stars at night, you and it are one. You and I, are one. None of this is new. My suffering is your suffering -- however, you don't experience mine directly because to you, it seems as though you are separate. You feel you have a seperate nervous system, brain, organs -- and that is all well and good, except, we breath the same air, water, we require the environment to feed us our "daily bread" so to speak.
We made of the same atoms. While the combinations at this present time in history have laid the ground work for human beings to exist, it has laid work for many other creates to live in the Imbalance/Balance harmony. Or, the Yin/Yang.
There is meaning in all of this. That meaning is, who are you, and who do you want to be once you know this to be a fact?
Facts are much different than beliefs. It is a fact that we are one process, one.......
We are random, and yet we are "on purpose."
I can't speak about consciousness after death. I don't believe that is the case, but that's because my understanding of the science only allows me to tell you what happens during conscious life. Your body and mind will likely die. Along with the memories and all other data that was stored in that "harddrive" mind of yours.
However, all the material and tools which made that mind possible, and the electrical signals, and the capacity to forge neuronal connections will carry on, whether you spread your particular genes or not. They already have been going on, and are -- all around you in the people you see. So, their consciousness, is.... yours -- it just doesn't seem obvious.
I suspect, if I had to give a hypothesis about what death is like, I'd say it's the same experience (or lack of) that you had prior to birth.
What does all this mean? Well, if you suffering a debilitating painful chronic illness and suffer massive neuropsychitric illness -- nothing. You're too imbalanced to form coherent peace or even the perception of such.
If you're fortunate and receive appropriate treatment, you may still be sick, but become capable of coherently making sense of these concepts and then have the chance to decide who do you want to be in relationship to borrelia burdorferi? Do you want to cohabitate? Are you enemies? Are you friends?
Me. B. Burgdorferi is apart of me, both scientifically, but also literally at the moment. However, that part I wish to cast out and kill. I'm going to kill it so that I can experience a different way of being, a peaceful, healthier being.
So, that's more of my thoughts. When people talk about being like Jesus, or Buddha, or "We are one" -- they are saying that you share the same exact opportunity -- once you know about these characters -- to become one with them. Hence, Jesus is inside you, etc?
See how I can be a man who is neither religious nor spiritual -- but who intellectually understands the facts about existence? All resources are available to you, as long as you know where you fit into them.
For me, suffering means opportunity to face an opposition. I have no problem "winning" and fighting an opponent. If that opponent is threatening my life and trying to kill me, I've decided who I am and who I'm going to be in relationship to it. I'm going to kill it, yes?
That's a "goal." Human beings find purpose and meaning by setting goals based on what they believe serves them.
Other goals are growth. I am aware I am aging. I am aware that time is running out. I am aware that soon I will be gone. So, good morning, how do you do?" That's how it begins with each rising sun.
You are surrounded by truth and facts -- you just aren't aware yet of all the tools and ideas that will bring you some control and some peace. It is the anxiety of not knowing that causes conflict and pain.
Knowing "some" of what will happen, is what I have learned.
If anything here doesn't make sense, try picking up the book Conversations With God Book 1. That was the starter book that helped me open my eyes to understands all the words religions, philosophies. It wasn't the material directly, it was the challenge and inspiration of seeing someone else challenge and think differently about his own belief system.
It will become clear to you quickly once you read. Things are not always as they seem when it comes to perceiving this world.
Posted by novy (Member # 25987) on :
kadee, adapting to what life presents is the best anyone can do to survive- we've been doing exactly that for approximately 200,000 years- 200,000 years ... can you imagine all the things people have done to survive in that amount of time? seems like probably a lot! a lot of forms of adapting to survive- but all in all, it's only one thing, and that is adaption to circumstances that arise-
which is something i trust you've been doing all your life ... believe it or not ... Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Religion is very different from spirituality. I tend to feel that spiritually came long before humans could ever even voice their feeling but they knew, could feel, a sense of light and power in their heart - and a sense connection to other beings and all living things.
Just take a look at Humanism. (You might want to do a search on that for a definition.)
Humanism holds great respect for the human being. Humanists are fully evolved in spite of their not holding to any organized religion.
One need not have organized religion in order to have respect of self, a connection to nature, the universe and all who share it.
One need not be of any particular organized religion to appreciate the sheer magnitude and wonder of life.
One need not have organized religion to feel life force, strength and the courage of convictions. That's all pretty much what we all have inside of us, simply as part of the human experience on planet earth, in the universe. -
Posted by kadee (Member # 21199) on :
Thank you all so much for sharing your insights. It is very touching for me and it helps me, to see all the possibilities of perspectives. Even though I have to travel alone.
So I take to heart, that there's still a lot of work ahead to find my answer.
Metallic blue, isn't this coincidence that just yesterday I found the book "Conversations With God" in a pile of books, that I had stored away longtime ago?!
Keebler, I share your perspective. Yet I have seen in others, that religion or religious believes/rituals can be a tremendous help to be in contact with "the source".
Thanks again. Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Everyone has a source, a force of life with every beat of their heart.
Even those with strong religious ties don't get off the hook and they will be the first to tell you that. Everyone suffers. It's just part of life.
Personally, I was brainwashed with the idea of the American Dream. It was just an illusion. Images and ideas of the life I thought would be handed to me (if I just worked as hard as I could - and I always did that). That notion, though, came mostly from the media and from all the positive thinking cheerleading stuff in my younger days.
The "dream it and you can be it" approach works for somethings but when serious illness knocks you out, it has to shift to a different dimension. We have to deal with loss and grief. We have to accept that we just can't work any harder than we are doing - so we have to work smarter.
But to loss grasp of the dream of being able to work hard and succeed - through illness or uncontrollable circumstances - well, that is no easier for those with religious ties but having a sense that there are some things we just can't know does help us to be free. We still all just have to hold on.
If one does not, or cannot, trust in Divine Providence (or a guiding force), you have to trust in your own ability to see the good where it does exist and to stand up for that even in the small things.
Whether of a specific religion or not, everyone has deep questions and bouts of confusion at times. I don't think anyone has an easier time of this. But we all still have some choices in whether we choose to appreciate beauty where it can shine and create it where it seems to be absent.
Start there.
The difference is how in how well we can connect to joy, hope and love. The key is knowing there are forces beyond us, around us, within us. We can connect to whatever is good and beautiful in the world or we can close off to that. Even with illness, we can still connect to beauty.
Every season, every situation has something of beauty to it. Finding that, nurturing that, can help keep us sane. Finding it in others who have heartbeats is the best. Look outside of yourself. Beauty is there. Look inside of yourself. Beauty is there, too.
And that all has connection, whether can make sense of it all or not. It's real even if you can't put a name to it. We don't have to have all the answers and we probably never will.
Just live each hour as fully and deeply as your circumstances will allow while still taking care of your health. Even at rest, a deep appreciation of beauty in the world nurtures us. Many turn to nature. Or music. Or art. Fill your senses.
Let go of EGO. When you feel that getting big, release it.
Simply be appreciative of some force of beauty. For an hour. For a day. For a week. And on and on. Start there. Then pass on your appreciation. Share it.
With a sense of appreciation, my guess is that things will change. And that change will build strength and add dimension, texture, flavor - maybe even purpose. -
[ 09-15-2010, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
quote:Originally posted by kadee: Metallic blue, isn't this coincidence that just yesterday I found the book "Conversations With God" in a pile of books, that I had stored away longtime ago?! [/QB]
Like I said, things are both random, and not -- and it doesn't take the supernatural to see that, it's just a fact. Just like, we are all one.
Posted by novy (Member # 25987) on :
beautifully stated ... everyone-
Posted by onbam (Member # 23758) on :
Lacking the belief that a higher power will right the situation, I involve myself in activism in order exert as much influence over its outcome as possible. I know many are pretty debilitated, but there is much (I believe) good work that can be done by anyone who has the abilities necessary to post on these boards.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- I think it may help to reassess the mistaken notion that God is Santa Claus. -
Posted by snaps (Member # 25104) on :
What a great topic.
Kadee, I can completely relate to what you are saying. I feel as though I have been searching for the right fit spiritually for years, and for so long, I felt frustrated and perplexed that it seemed so simple for some.
This is still a work in progress for me, but I definitely agree that reading & exploring different schools of thought has helped immensely to understand that it is possible to find meaning outside of organized religion and that religion does not equate spirituality. The more that I have explored this, the more like minded people seem to come into my life.
I believe that it's all the "same stuff", we just have to find what resonates for each of us personally. And sometimes, we have to think outside the box and just be open to all the possibilities. For me, it is nature, solitude, taking the time to be grateful, being more present, connecting with others etc...
Lately, I have been listening to Wayne Dyer's book "Change Your Thoughts, Change Your Life", on the Tao Te Ching - it has really struck a chord with me. It's a nice format because it has a chapter dedicated to each of 81 verses. So, you can read (or in my case, listen) to a verse and commentary each day. Not too overwhelming and you can take what you like from it and leave the rest. :)
All the best.
Posted by kimmie (Member # 25547) on :
I wish I could say I was a very religious person. I go to church, I sing, I cry, I ask why me? Why my daughter?
HOnestly, the thing that helps me get through this more than anything is hope. I hope and pray we all beat this. But that is what keeps me going.
I have been lied to by EVERY single doctor...except for the LLMD's. They have been honest. I follow their guide...and continue to pray.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Why me? Why NOT me? As a link in the human experience, no one is exempt.
Even Superman was not immune to everything. Lyme is our Kryptonite.
But I have to say that when I read about what it's like to be a woman in the Congo, or how those swept away by the floods in Pakistan are struggling . . . or folks in Haiti . . . Tsunami victims . . . the little kids at St. Jude's Hospital . . . the guys in the mine in Chile . . .
. . . I just have to wonder what planet I thought I was on to be thinking that life would be a smooth ride. I was very sheltered for a long time.
Yes, having lyme is awful. Comparing one person's pain to other is never equal nor always helpful. But I know that my body would surely not be strong enough to survive the hourly challenges of 70 % of the world's population. So, I'm thankful today for running water and a flushing toilet. I just have to hold on to what is working for me.
And, as for God or no God . . . this is not to debate that. However, it's interesting to note that even Steven Hawking (who does not believe Earth is a product of God) has an internal light and energy that drives him to be connected and enthusiastic about life.
If he can be moved to enjoy and engage, so can we. My guess is that love has a lot to do with it. (How did Christopher Reeve succeed as a shining example even after his tumble from his horse?)
Intricate acoustic style music that engages the heart, light and energy of life. -
[ 09-15-2010, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by Keebler:
I think it may help to reassess the mistaken notion that God is Santa Claus. - [/QB]
Absolutely!! I find GREAT comfort in knowing God.. the God of the New Testament, who is also the God of the "old."
Maybe picking up and reading the Bible would be a good place to start. That is where I find God. Begin with the New Testament... then read the Old once you get a better understanding of who God really is.
If that doesn't float your boat, then so be it. It's everyone's choice. God wants us to choose Him in freedom. He will not force anyone to love Him.
Posted by onbam (Member # 23758) on :
On a tangent, has anyone ever tried to contact Steven Hawking and ask whether or not he was ever treated for Lyme?
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- I've never known of any lyme patient who could be immersed with such complex though processes - and keep their train of thought. Not that they are not smart enough but the absolute clobbering of energy in body and brain is just so oppressive with lyme.
I hesitate speculating publicly about any person. It feels invasive.
However, perhaps in some of his writings, he details his medical history. You might ask a librarian in the science section of your library which of his books may expound on his personal medical matters. There may also be some biographical articles on the web.
Now, if he's spoken about his health, that may open the door to reasonable inquiries. If he's never addressed it, I would take that cue and respect his privacy in this matter.
Certainly not all ALS is from infection such as lyme or Cpn, etc.
Yet, most certainly, there have been many others with ALS that had been misdiagnosed and when (for them) correctly diagnosed with lyme + co., and treated, did much better. Some have fully recovered while some recovered to certain points, with degrees of residual damage. -
Posted by novy (Member # 25987) on :
the Bible says God is love- yet love existed long before the Bible was written- therefore, God or love, is not restricted to any particular religion or school of thought- love is and has always been available to all simply by allowing themselves to be drawn towards it, be it through the Bible or otherwise-
Posted by novy (Member # 25987) on :
re: steven hawking
i think some of his medical history is revealed in the biographical documentary A Brief History of Time-
Posted by onbam (Member # 23758) on :
Yeah, saw that. They mention his very early history--stuff from way before the ALS-lyme connection was known.
Oh well. Not like someone that high-profile would likely be able speak out for us anyway.
Posted by novy (Member # 25987) on :
amy tan did- but yes, due to pressure probably would not ...
has anyone ever seen the movie Heaven Knows Mr Allison?
it's one of my favorites ...
Posted by LightAtTheEnd (Member # 24065) on :
Still trying to answer these questions for myself.
I am rather an agnostic about religion, and won't debate that here. But assuming a God who is good, I do not believe he would intend for little children to suffer horrible diseases. Rather, Jesus came as a fellow sufferer.
We all want our personal suffering to mean something. But the truth is, many or maybe all human beings suffer randomly to one degree or another. Sometimes we do suffer from someone else's or our own deliberate actions, or we choose to sacrifice ourselves for some greater purpose. But there is a lot of undeserved and random suffering out there.
I think it's not so much that we can find out why we were selected to have this happen to us, as that we can MAKE it meaningful. We have to figure out how to create some positive value out of our bad experience.
I am also a bedrock optimist, hence my nickname. I believe that no matter how bad things look, you always have some kind of choice, and there is some way forward that can be found. We have a duty not to give up.
If you believe there is hope, then there is. You can make your own hope by having some. If you're alone in the darkness, light a candle. All the darkness in the universe can't stop that light from shining.
I wish everybody comfort and strength and healing.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by novy: [QB] the Bible says God is love- yet love existed long before the Bible was written-
But God created the Earth and IS the beginning. Sure, the Bible was written later, but the story goes way back!
Light.. I don't believe we were "selected."
Posted by sammy (Member # 13952) on :
I know that I could not have endured all that has come with this disease without having hope in God.
Saying that, I did have a strong faith before I became suddenly and drastically ill.
I do not believe that God is punishing me, that he has turned his back on me, or that he has chosen me specifically to suffer. But I do believe that God can use these circumstances of being human and suffering to teach me and use me ultimately for good.
My life may not be what I had dreamed when I was a child but I'm OK with that. I look forward to what is to come. I'm grateful to wake up each day. I'm more grateful in general and hope that I will never take anything (walking, talking, reading, sleeping, eating, friends and family...) for granted again.
The Bible does not promise us that we will all be happily married with perfect children, that we will be wealthy, or healthy or whatever we once expected. Suffering is mentioned often in the Bible. In fact, we are told not to be surprised by suffering here on Earth.
When I was well, I didn't know what it was like to be sick. I could have empathy for others but I was never in their shoes. I never felt the fear and pain and unanswered questions that come with being so sick. Now I know.
When I'm feeling selfish, thinking why me, poor me, I need to be reminded of Christ's suffering. What he did for me. That humbles me right up. God sent his son Christ to come to earth to pay the price for our sins and selfishness, to bridge the gap. Christ was perfect, he did not deserve the punishment, we did.
As humans, we are born with good in us but we are also incredibly selfish. If you think of most of the crimes and evils committed (robbery, murder, rape, kidnapping, ...) they all come stem from selfishness.
We need to look outside of ourselves. Look around. Since I have been sick and out of work this past year I have seen how God has used people to help me. I don't believe in coincidences. When you're having a bad day and your best friend calls out of the blue to say "I've been thinking of you", that's God.
God gave us freewill. He did not want us to be robots or drones. He's given us life, offered forgiveness through His son, all we have to do is believe and chose Him. That's what I've chosen.
I'm currently (slowly) reading a book that many of you might find interesting. It is called "If God is Good...Faith in the midst of suffering and evil" by Randy Alcorn. Check it out here on Google books: http://tiny.cc/w4tgw You can read some of the actual book here to see if it is something you'd like to purchase or borrow from the library. I highly highly highly recommend it.
Posted by 17hens (Member # 23747) on :
This is the only belief system I have found to be true...
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