I was a star athlete as a child. around age 18 I started putting on weight. was still pretty healthy and STRONG despite being overweight and having PCOS.
Got lyme 5 yeras ago and was no longer active or working. I sorta gave up and I just packed it on.
I am now considered morbidly obese. I have type 2 diabetes, and sleep apnea and all the lyme fixings.
I need to lose 130lbs. I cant seehow that remotelycan happen without VIGOROUS exercise. I have too much pain and fatigue to exercise.
I have started the pursuit of gastric bypass.
We are shooting for 3-4 months from now. I have a strong suspicion that alot ofmy problems are now weight related vs ALL LYME.
Please dont lecture me about risk of surgery yadda yadda (unless you have personal experience) I am well aware and I (andmy doctors)have decided benefits outweigh the risks.
I have 3-4 months of educational classes, dietician , psych appts to go thru. I need to lose 15-29 pounds on my own (4 lbs lost already in 10 days) I have started a blog to document my journey. PM me if would like to follow along.
hopefully this time next year I will be living life again. Posted by poppy (Member # 5355) on :
A relative had this done, and I was never sure she was not being mishandled medically because there was hypothyroidism on both sides of her family. Also, possible endocrine issues. If those had been tackled, maybe surgery would not have been needed. She still has problems, Gerd and who knows what else, hard to say if those are related to the surgery or something else.
Whenever I see very overweight people, so many more these days, I always suspect medical issues mishandled. Can't tell me it is all soda and chips doing this, regardless of how much they eat.
I am sure you have looked at the risks of this surgery.
Posted by Marz (Member # 3446) on :
merrygirl, I don't have personal experience, but know two people who have done this long ago.
One of them had gastric bypass and when that failed she had the o-ring. The o-ring has given her complications years later.
Somehow it caused bowel obstruction and she ended up in ER. Since then she has had surgery to reverse the procedure and now is having serious problems from that.
Not only that, their weight came back with bypass and it wasn't that long afterwards.
They are the only two people I know who have done it so the odds don't seem good to me.
I hope someone comes along with some other ideas for you or maybe some positive results for bypass.
It seems they wouldn't be doing that surgery if there weren't good results too
Marz
Posted by Carol in PA (Member # 5338) on :
You said that you were supposed to lose some weight on your own first.
In my experience, the easiest way to lose weight was taking coconut oil. I ate about two ounces of coconut cream concentrate daily, and lost five pounds per month, without doing anything else. No diet changes, no exercise.
The other thing that caused weight loss was green tea concentrate, in capsules.
For both of these, when I stopped, the weight returned. Mine is metabolic...my body keeps returning to this weight level.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Please read these two books before making a decision.
My main concern is how you can then get all the nutrients you really need from foods, not from pills.
We NEED food. And enough of it. Lots of veggies. With a bypass, the amount of good veggies needed for a person's cells - and colon to clean out - is very limited.
Just my hunch, but I think we will see a much higher rate of colon cancer in those with gastric bypass . . . the colon NEEDS FIBER, more than most with bypass are able to take.
The liver also needs that fiber to help the body detoxify.
Other stealth infections? Parasites?
Have you been assessed for Cpn or other stealth infections and parasites, too? Cpn, like lyme, can cause excessive (undeserved) weight gain.
This book & site explain why lyme, and Cpn, caused serious weight gain in some patients and how, once the infection(s) were addressed, it just seemed to nearly fall off -- even with limited ability to exercise.
One of the important points, though, is that even thin people can have fatty veins (a sort of "interior obesity"), so this book is for everyone, not just those carrying more weight:
You might also contact the LLMDs who were interviewed for that book above. They seem to really understand.
===============================
The authors above show HOW that can happen but - other than the obvious "treat the infections" advice which is vital - don't detail the range of support techniques for the adrenals along the way.
While not a LL doctor and not discussing lyme (but does acknowledge infections as stress), THIS author offers great advice that can benefit those with lyme.
While it's a great resource for herbal and nutritional supplements, it's not just about what supplements can help, or about low dose Cortef (hydrocortisone), but also about some self-care, habits, and such that some of us may never think about as being so important:
Gymnema Sylvestre - Six articles relating to diabetes management from Vitamin Research Products. All their articles have excellent third party research citations.
Google Scholar Search: antidiabetic+medicinal+plants
=========================================
It's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL (lyme literate) doctor who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -
- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present. -----------------------
Topic: Doctor with MS recovers: shares nutrients & pivotal diet
Focus: "Minding My Mitochondria" by Terry Wahls, MD
"TED Talks" Video and book links.
MYELIN SHEATH & MITOCHONDRIA SUPPORT discussed. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- SEA BUCKTHORN berries, juice and oil, also may be of help. -
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
oh merry please be cAreful. I have almost 90 or more to lose too and its so tough
But I would only go under the knife if my life were on the line
Posted by Laura_W (Member # 31491) on :
Merrygirl...
I have had gastric bypass surgery. It has been almost 6 years since I have had the surgery.
The most important advise I can give you is to RESEARCH THE SURGEON AND OFFICE. Aftercare is one of the biggest things to consider.
A lot of surgeons play the game of primary physician should do this or that. And the primary dr has NO CLUE!!! what to do.
Also, making sure that the diatician and surgeon and surgeons staff all agree is very important. I know that it is assumed that they do. But it wasn't in my case.
I went thru the surgery before I knew I had lyme. Although, I'm sure that I had it then, but it wasn't in full force.
What you also need to know in regards to Lyme and gastric bypass... is that it is very difficult for awhile (months) to take pills after the surgery. So if you are still treating lyme, your protocal might need to be changed to accomodate that.
Every person who has the surgery is different, and responds differently. I still have some issues with certain pills. Some people are great, and don't have issues.
I can't say whether it's a good thing to do or not. Everyone is different. There are positives and negatives to it. That is for you to decide. It depends on the day whether I think I made the right choice or not.
Please feel free to contact me with any questions you may have.
Hugs Laura
Posted by poppy (Member # 5355) on :
Laura's mention of trouble with swallowing pills reminded me that the relative who had the bypass surgery also has this pill problem, and it has been several years. But I don't know if these things are connected since she also has Gerd.
Posted by Laura_W (Member # 31491) on :
My issue with pills is not related to GERD. Its ue to the pill getting stuck at the opening from the "stomach" to the intestine. Very painful.
I do have to say that I like my body much more now that I am thinner at least in clothes. Naked not so much.
I don't have any more energy now than I did before, which surprised the doctors. But, I think thats because the Lyme started coming out.
I would love to be able to remove the tummy skin. Eventhough a surgery would be hell with Lyme. IT is that bad.
I lost 155 lbs initially. Kept off 140 pounds. And I am stable at this weight.
Most days I am happier that I had it done. There are different forms of surgery now. The type I had took away the first foot of my small intestine... so I loose alot of nutrients.
Just do your research, and find whats best for you.
Here to support you, Laura
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
my friend had so much weight loss that she had the extra skin cut off.
unfortunately now she looks like frankenstein. she's had so many surgeries.
it still hasn't made her happy as she cannot adjust to her new body.
i'll just stick with diet and exercise but man it's slow.
Posted by sometimesdilly (Member # 9982) on :
hi (((((((((Merry)))))))!
Sorry, I know you said not to tell you about the down side of this option, but when did I ever listen??
A friend of mine did the gastric surgery about 5 years ago, and it was done at a highly reputable place. She too was told the benefits outweighed the risks-- she did NOT do the procedure for cosmetic reasons, but was experiencing many health problems due to her weight.
One year later she had lost a huge amount of weight-- that part was "good"-- but she also had been forced to have multiple surgeries and procedures and had almost died from an unending series of complications, had lost her job and almost her home, and is now absolutely and completely disabled.
I know you think things through for yourself, but on this one-- please get a second and third opinion, preferably by folks who are capable of factoring in your Lyme.
hugs to you--- Dill
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- You might go ahead and "do" the diet that you'd be given if you were to have the surgery.
If you follow that "to the tee" for a month or two, you can at least get an idea of how well your body could function on the amounts and kinds of foods that would then be allowed.
You won't know how your belly will feel or "do" with pills, etc. but at least you'd have a clue about the nutrients and if they can give you the energy and cell support needed. You'd get an idea of bowel movements on limited fiber, etc. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Re: Optifast & Medifast programs
I did both of these at times, decades ago. I do not suggest them at all because I think they are dangerous in their lack of good, real food - and in the processed ingredients that can be excito-toxins and rev the NMDA nerve receptors that are so tricky with lyme.
Still, they may have their place and time with some people. I assume the bariatric surgeon you have consulted has suggested both of these as options for you that would safer than surgery. Nearly identical.
At that time (1987) Medifast tasted better and was a bit less expensive.
I did not then know I was celiac so do not know if they are gluten-free, however. You'd need to check on that.
I also assume the bariatic surgeon has had you do a genetic celiac test. That's really important as celiac can cause excessive weight gain, although most doctors do not know this -- nor that Addison's can do this (or that Addison's can be from lyme and steroids can make it worse)
I lost 100 pounds with Optifast and Medifast.
Sadly, with lyme, it all back (but mostly from the steroids that had been prescribed before that).
I NEVER had bad food habits - never - and exercised until lyme finally nearly paralyzed me. I never ate junk. But I also never got enough food from veggies. I knew nothing about nutrition from whole foods.
For myself, the bottom line is that lyme and other infections have so damaged my body and resulted in undeserved gain.
From those "Potbelly" and "Adrenal" books I now see how common this is with lyme and will be patient until I'm better, just continuing to take care the best of myself as possible, not looking at numbers on a scale for I know that can't know the whole deal.
Were I to design a similar programs to those, I would hinge it on HEMP PROTEIN POWDER and JUICING.
And, with a LL ND to suggest herbal and nutritional supplement that can help control blood glucose, such as Sylvestre Gymnema mentioned many posts above.
Even with a good LL ND, and the very best organic ingredients, your very own program can be designed for a fraction of the cost of the other options. It will be much safer - and also allow for more enjoyment.
Food is good. Food is good for us. We should have food that delights our senses. It is entirely possible with all kinds of veggies, garden herbs and spices as the focus. Spices can also help normalize weight.
Terry Walhs, MD, in her book about how she overcame MS, details eating 8 to 9 cups of veggies every day. The more I look at that, the more it makes so much sense. And we need a good stomach and intestine track to take that all in and let it work for us. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- With many surgeries, steroids are given during and afterward.
You'd want to know all about that possibility and talk with your LLMD well in advance so your LLMD can be sure the lyme and other stealth infections are well managed throughout with key antibiotic levels, coordinating with the surgeons and after-care teams.
---------------------
Whatever your decision, you may want to be sure nothing you'd be given will include anything in this group:
After surgery, L-glutamine - &/or a POLYMER - may be used to help protect the stomach from infection.
See the work of bariatric surgeon John Alverdy, MD from Chicago regarding how to decrease infections after gastric bypass. He's focused work on a polymer. Not sure what all that entails but that work is important for different reasons. Easily searched.
IF L-glutamine is used, be aware that with lyme, that can increase neuro symptoms and may be balanced with IV magnesium.
--------------------
If you have the surgery, you may want friends and family to be sure you have real food from the get-go. Juicing might be an option, too. Keeping nutrients in mind:
- By Dr. David Brownstein -
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
She's gonna hit all of us!
I thought Lap Band surgery was the safer procedure?
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
yeah she's going to kill me!! when I asked my doctor for help in loosing weight he told me to keep my mouth shut!!
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Well, randibear, I think your doctor is sorely misinformed about nutrition and the importance of flavor in our lives, then.
merrygirl,
Really, I do not intend to go against your wishes for no undesirable information.
The research process has been in my blood since I was a reporter for my high school newspaper, decades ago.
I know that my "drive to discover" can sometimes irritate the bejeebers out of others but that is not my intent at all. My intent is to help prevent pain and suffering -- and bring actual joy if at all possible.
I also made many mistakes by not learning about stuff that later just clobbered me. Sometimes, the information was just not there; sometimes I trusted the wrong people and just left it at that.
I was very wrong about the reason for my weight gain and have gained a certain freedom of thought with understanding the works I mentioned above.
It's not necessarily what we think, all this about weight. Still, we each have the freedom to choose our own path.
I'm familiar with Alverdy's work because we went to college together and I just stumbled upon some of his work through alumni magazines. If you do have this, if I were to do this - I'd want to read everything he's written and also see the works of many of the top surgeons in that field.
In his exploration to prevent death from this surgery, Alverdy has done good work. I'm sure others have, too, but just not sure how many authors you've gotten to know yet and he's a good place to begin - and surely one not to miss.
I may not want to have a polymer solution in my stomach but I do think the theory is onto a key need for improved post-surgery survival rates.
I do not intend to crush your dreams but only hope that, with information, your most important dreams are still possible for a full lifetime, with all your senses able to enjoy and embrace all kinds of flavor. -
Posted by sometimesdilly (Member # 9982) on :
(Psst, Keebler, a whisper from the peanut gallery-- I forget a lot about almost everything, but I do remember that your heart is always in the right place & that you research everything and do it well..)
Posted by 2young2dieMom (Member # 25434) on :
my hairdresser just had the surgery and looks great. she's lost 70 lbs already. she's in her early 30s. She was back to work in 3 weeks.
Posted by merrygirl (Member # 12041) on :
Hi everyone! I do appreciate the info. I will be going to Tufts in boston and they are wellk known. The surgery is laproscopically. The band is out. I had an allday class on monday and 2 out of 9 people there had the band and were there to get revision because of complications and the band stopped working.
I have lost 6 lbs on my own. I was told that only 5% of people who diet and lose weight keep it off according to studies.
I am pretty set on the surgery but I have a few months to decide.
The skin issues is my biggest fear. I dont think I can afford cosmetic surgery. So I will have to deal with it . I am not affraid of dying.
I am not really living as it is. I would feel bad for my kids and my husband obviously. This is not for cosmetic reasons. I am quite happy having a curvy body. my health is not good. Sleep apnea,diabetes, etc..... I feel that a majority of what I t hink are Lyme symptoms are PROBABLY from being morbidly obese.
Do I expect to have all my medical issues clear up? nope. But you never know
Posted by sammy (Member # 13952) on :
It sounds like you are trying to make the best decision for you. And this is an extremely personal, life altering decision.
I've known a couple people who have gone through the gastric bypass procedure. Both were extremely impressed with the weight loss. Both have sadly gained all and more of the weight back.
One woman (co-worker) has had 2 revisions of the surgery to make her stomach smaller again and they have taken more of her small intestines each time. She did not want to changer her diet. She wanted to be able to eat junk food and be skinny. Obviously that is not a wise choice and it didn't work for her.
The other woman (my aunt, I love her dearly) had her surgery approx 10yrs ago. She needed to lose the weight for health reasons. She was having a difficult time with simple activities like walking around, getting short of breath, etc. She was dangerously obese. She had her surgery done a Cleveland Clinic.
Sadly, she's had complications. She still cannot eat normally. She had to remain on a liquid diet (medical protein shake) for several years. She still cannot eat normally. She can only eat small amounts of soft carby foods, no meats, no veggies, limited fruits.
My aunt had to have the skin surgery because she ended up with such a large pannus that it hung down to her knees. Insurance sadly did not cover this surgery so she used up her savings to go to Brazil to have it done cheaper.
Even though my aunt can't eat much, has still gained most of the weight back. She told me at Christmas that she is upset that she did not address the issues that caused her to eat poorly and gain weight before her surgery.
She used to binge eat, of course she can no longer do that. Now she grazes and picks high calorie treats to eat constantly. She said she realized that she's an emotional/stress eater.
My sister lost 100lbs on weight watchers after college. This was 5yrs ago and she's kept it off. My aunt is now going to try to follow the plan with my sister's help.
I just wanted to tell you these things so that you can think about them before your surgery. You can learn from these people's mistakes.
Try to figure out how you got where you are today so that you can make the right changes that will stick with you for a life time. You want this surgery to be a new start for you. So take advantage of all the counseling and nutrition advice that you will be offered. Be honest and open with your health care providers. Let them help you.
Posted by RDaywillcome (Member # 21454) on :
Are you treating your sleep apnea? That in itself can cause weight gain if not treated.
You don't happen to have vocal cord paralysis do you? Because that can cause sleep apnea.
It's your decision to decide what is best for you and if your doctor thinks that your immune system can handle the surgery, than more power to you.
Posted by merrygirl (Member # 12041) on :
I have been treating sleep apnea for years. I use my cpap religiously.
The doctor at the weight center thought my ins might cover getting the surgery for the getting any skin off my belly and prob to get my breasts reduced and put them back where they belong(G cup yikes)I have bulging discs and having these breasts be so large do not help my neck.
obviously this is jumping waaay ahead of myself (years away) I cetainly think If I drop a bunch of weight onmy own I would reconsider surgery.
I honestly gave upon myself when I got lyme. I was dead as far as I was concerned. But now I realize that in order to take care ofmy kids, I need to care for myself....
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Why not begin Weight Watchers now?? I think you can do it online even.
Posted by Lauralyme (Member # 15021) on :
90% of weight loss happens from diet and not exercise
Hope you can lose the weight without surgery
Posted by Carol in PA (Member # 5338) on :
quote:Originally posted by merrygirl: But now I realize that in order to take care of my kids, I need to care for myself....
Yes, that's true, and I wish that I had seen a doctor about the migraines earlier than I did. When I got on a med that reduced the migraines, I became a much better mother, as I was in so much less pain.
Tropical Traditions rotates which products go on sale, and sometimes have a free shipping day. If you're interested in buying, get on their email list.
The only reason I did not continue with this was that my kidneys were working overtime, 24/7. I could not sleep for more than an hour or two without waking up with a bursting full bladder.
I'm thinking of doing it again, though, as coconut oil does something to help the thyroid. Although I have subclinical low thyroid, my doc will not treat it.
I added some honey to the coconut cream concentrate. You need to warm the jar and stir, as the ground coconut meat separates from the oil. It's easier to do this with the 16 oz. jar.
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
Have you tried xenical? I know people on it and they are loosing lots of weight but they are doing low fat and exercise too
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lauralyme: 90% of weight loss happens from diet and not exercise
Hope you can lose the weight without surgery
I'm a fitness instructor and I agree with this completely. Well, maybe not completely .... I've always said it's 80% what you eat and 20% getting moving rather than 90/10.
Even though I teach pilates and think resistance training like pilates is necessary, I think the bulk of exercise should be light, like walking. A lot.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
quote:Originally posted by randibear: Have you tried xenical? I know people on it and they are loosing lots of weight but they are doing low fat and exercise too
Low fat is not a good way to lose weight. I think low fat dieting is partially to blame for our obesity epidemic.
I eat relatively high fat, low carb. Lots of vegetables and fruits (though more moderate on the fruit). Some meat, eggs, fish, etc. I eat real butter, coconut oil, macadamia and other nuts, avocado, etc. Fat helps you stay full. It helps you eat less. And it gives you something to burn.
If you stop feeding your body so much glucose (carbs), it turns to burning fat. That's how we're designed. That's why we store fat ... for use later.
So if you get your body used to burning fat for fuel (you will get enough carbs from eating vegetables profusely and some fruit), then you start burning your own fat.
My husband and I have both dropped ten pounds eating this way, and we neither one thought we had any weight to lose. We maintained our muscle mass, yet lost fat. He's starting to get a six pack (not there yet, but starting to).
I know neither of us has the kind of weight to lose like you guys are talking about, but there are other people on this website who have. I love their Friday success stories.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
I agree on the fats. If you eat low fat your hunger will INCREASE. Eat healthy fats.
Posted by AuntyLynn (Member # 35938) on :
I had two girlfriends who had this surgery. The first lost over 130 lbs, but was eating candy constantly - and had gained about 40 back the last time I saw her.
She told me she found a "charity" that covered the tummy skin surgery, but I haven't seen her since that, as they moved out of state.
The other had 3 heart attacks within a few months. (A woman in her early 50s!) She now has seven (7) stents in and around her heart. She was diabetic (as is most of her family). She is doing great and looks great. But I think in her case, this was a "life and death" decision.
I know the Weight Watchers diet works - and offers nicely balanced nutrition.
But from my personal observations (as a former college nutrition major), most folks I know who are obese have been going heavy on the carbs. Carbs spike your blood sugar very quickly, and they eventually wind up with diabetes, because the pancreas is constantly "working overtime" trying to bring that surge of blood sugar down.
It does this by converting the extra blood sugar to fat, and packing it away - but long term, the pancreas gets exhausted, and can't make enough insulin anymore.
There is a wonderful book that you might find at your library called "PROTEIN POWER." It recommends a style of eating that is, basically, the Paleo diet: high protein, with lots of low glycemic veggies.
For people who have been running mostly on carbs, the shock to force your body to get energy mainly from protein, tends to make your body "go the easy route" -- which is to simply access that stored fat, to burn as energy instead!
I have seen dozens of "carb freaks" lose weight very quickly, by simply tilting their diets from mainly carbs, to mainly protein.
Weight loss can bring high blood pressure down, and can even often "cure" diabetes.
And once your body weight starts to normalize, the stress that your skeleton has suffered trying to carry that "extra load" will diminish -and back and knee pain often disappears.
Now here's another concern: YOU HAVE LYME!
What "added risks" does that pose, for an "elective" surgery?
IMHO, many of those "health counselors" who will prepare you for the bypass are just as clueless about the ramifications of Lyme, as the average GP. Please consider this.
But whatever you decide to try, I wish you every success.
Posted by Dogsandcats (Member # 28544) on :
I bought coconut oil and it said to refrigerate. How do use it when it is hard?
Today I scraped off about a tsp and put in a bowl with some honey.
Then I heated it for about 20 sec.
Is that right?
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
dogs, i think you're in the wrong post!!!
i've done this myself a few times and went "huh?"
but to answer, i eat it right out of the jar. bout a teaspoon per day.
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
oh just for information. i found out today that alli, the over the counter thing, has been recalled.
some people have reported liver damage or something so it's off the market.
Posted by Dogsandcats (Member # 28544) on :
randi - if it is hard cause of the fridge, how do you eat it? Yeah, i am in the wrong post, but I am on a roll now.
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
i keep mine in the cabinet, by the stove. it stays liquid. i've never put it in the fridge cause it would be hard.
Posted by Dogsandcats (Member # 28544) on :
But it says to put in fridge......
It is like the tag on matresses....do not remove this label under penalty of law!
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
DOGS... Mine says DO NOT REFRIGERATE.
It's still rather hard until it gets warm in the summer.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I don't refrigerate my coconut oil.
Posted by cocowyo (Member # 36286) on :
Just wanted to add a "me too!" for the Paleo Diet. It has been a miracle for my overeating, mood and chronic pain.
FYI - I do best if I eat more healthy fats and more starchy veggies than they recommend.
I also strongly recommend Overeaters Anonymous. I can't stick to any food plan (including the Paleo Diet) without the support I get there. OA lets you choose your own food plan and there are a lot of people who have lost 100+ pounds and kept it off for *decades*.
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