how will emory and the cdc control this ebola when they can't even keep track of simple things like say tb, west nile, lyme, etc?
heaven help us if this gets out. I jus heard they are going to have contact with friends and family. surely they are mistaken.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- They've been treating Ebola since 1976. The main issues are covered [regarding the two patients for Emory, that is] and I have complete confidence in that. Many of the problems with it spreading in Africa do not apply in Atlanta.
While this is a devastating and intricate virus . . . neither villagers nor medical teams have the resources or tools they need in Africa to arrest and contain this. Behavior, too, and fear of pursuing treatment hampers efforts there.
Looking back, it would be interesting to see what more could have been done since 1976 about this, though and CDC trust and Emory staff trust are two different matters.
Emory is all set up to cover the bases. I'm very glad they are able to do this. After seeing all the procedures and special equipment, etc. I'd feel fine eating lunch with one of the attending staff myself. If they buy! Were one to be a family member in my home, I'd feel fine with that, too.
This is not airborne.
The precautions are really quite inventive. I like the one where they put their hands into gloves that are affixed to a bubble of sorts with the patient & staff person separated.
Wish I'd thought of that!
I also have confidence that if any staff member does breach procedure (for whatever cause), they can self-isolate, like that doctor in the Midwest is doing since he returned home a week or so ago. He's doing just fine but is staying in self-isolation for a while longer, just to be sure. -
[ 08-02-2014, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- The press is really pushing a lot of fear around this. Their tone of voice, word choice in headlines, the kind of music and camera cuts, even. Drama to the max, over and over. They want to spread fear as it keeps viewers tuned in and readers turned on.
They could certainly take a better tone with all this and turn it into one very classy educational experience. Some parts of that are coming through but it's mostly fear mongering I see.
I also think some of the precautions are way too much but won't go into all that. -
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
while you may trust the cdc and all, I don't.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- The CDC is not treating these two patients. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- On the bigger picture, indeed, the are many concerns. These should have been addressed decades, ago, though. Those working in Africa rely a great deal on volunteers. They get very little help, compared with the need to circumvent a crises.
Anytime we rely on the CDC, though, all bets are off. But there are thousands who work with them and many are excellent. Just because the CDC is out to lunch on lyme doesn't mean they are idiots in all capacities. They can sure shine in many aspects. But they cannot fix this with a magic wand. Learning how this started, focusing on stopping it there, is important to us here.
It's not so much from person to person as from infected animal to person. The way they fix some of their meats, etc. And education about how to care for those who are sick.
There are always way we can help, even if we don't go to Africa ourselves. Just helping to bring clean water to a village can help, etc. The various agencies can always use some support. WHO would be the place to begin to investigate how we might help.
Now that Ebola is in various countries in Western Africa, it's of great importance. But, if this (or when) this spreads to other countries, it's not going to be due to the two patients at Emory.
My guess is we will be able to learn a lot from each of them and I hope they will recover. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
Global Alert and Response (GAR) -
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
I understand what you are saying. however, I am also saying that mistakes can be made. because one is qualified does not mean they are above making mistakes or that accidents cannot happen.
I am not chicken little screaming the sky is falling. we should use all due caution in treating any communicable disease.
that's all I am saying. however, once the horse is out of the barn it is too late to close the door.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- All doors have been open since the first ships sailed and the Wright Brothers caught a draft. Now. But these two medical volunteers in Atlanta have become the face of it but they are not. It's a slick scapegoat switch.
Still, it's not too late (to stop crisis, I assume is the "it"?). It's never too late.
We can learn. This is not the first time something like this has happened in history. Most of the time, behavior / hygiene drove the crises and most of the time, behavior changes made all the difference.
Yet, we still have a half-dozen or so cases of even Bubonic plague even in the U.S. usually each year (one, I think even in Texas or just to your NW) - it does not turn into a crises as centuries ago. Of course, as a bacteria, it's treatable but behavior is the key to prevention. Staying away from the animal source, flea carrier.
Ebola is about that part, too.
But, often, the people are just doing the best with what they have. War, politics, economics, etc. impact the causes and how those are "managed" can also help manage disease and recovery.
In the U.S., we live in a totally different physical environment. I sure hope this opens the eyes of the world, though, in many ways. Hope this raises questions like "how can we help?" and prompt many to learn about science, how clean water is right for all, same as nutrition.
"How do we contribute to war in these places that prevent them from growing their own food?" Some of our choices may or may not affect some of these factors and even if we can't do something, we can encourage the young ones around us to learn about health and science - and education. We need them.
If there are people in positions that aren't doing a proper job, then we need to nurture those who can.
I know this is a particularly sobering thing if someone may be prone to vomit on a plane, etc. Still, it's not likely going to be a big deal unless we really do just bury our head in the sand as part of a global community. We usually do what we do best, we learn. We change. -
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
I'm just glad they will have family around them. It's very likely they will die and it would be so horrible to be dying and not be able to say good-bye.
I hope this gives them a chance at living.
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
I wish lyme patients got this much attention. I know, I know....
Posted by Dogsandcats (Member # 28544) on :
This is the coast where my niece and her family are missionary's.......
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Very scary, Dogs. Not that far from Cameroon either. Our foundation's leaders just got home last week. At least I think they are home!
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
The Natural Health Alliance folks are saying that nanosilver can treat it - don't know if this is true - just reporting -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Robin,
You posted while I was composing below. While my mind has been on plant herbs, certain silver formulas sounds very likely.
I wonder if this sort of thing might be what forces traditional doctors to seek wisdom of other kinds of medicine, too. I think they are missing the boat ignoring the whole range of possibilities.
There are some plants in Africa that are unique in their antimicrobial properties. Why they've been ignored is frustrating.
Ebola has a protein that allows it to grab hold and hide from the immune system.
Bats & animals (as the source) should also be considered -- and are being so by many African countries, some even banning consumption of bat meat. I just read somewhere else that bats can carry 60 different viruses capable of infecting humans. But, people still hunt and eat what they can catch.
Really gets me thinking. And we could learn from this for other infections from animals, too. How can we get them healthy? Where is that starting?
Seeing the doctor walk out of the vehicle and into the hospital, with just some help (less than I would need) is very encouraging.
Article below is also encouraging. Sure makes me want to learn more about science and medicine. I wonder if this program has received all the support it could have. Yet, the bush meat consumption, where it starts, is still a staple among many there.
Some way to stop this in the bats & animals is also important. But, for now . . . I still wonder why they don't employ some plant based antivirals . . . and what roadblocks to this work have gotten in the way for it not to be more available:
Treating Ebola With An Experimental Serum: Why It Might Help
by Richard Harris - NPR News - August 02, 2014
Excerpts:
. . . announced last week . . . that the two [US doctors] were going to get experimental treatments.
One was going to get a blood transfusion from a 14-year-old boy who recovered from the disease, the organization said; the other was to get an "experimental serum." What's that?
We know there's no drug to treat Ebola (though several are in development). But sometimes the human body can mount a successful defense against this deadly virus.
And 20 years ago, doctors adapted this natural defense to make an impromptu treatment during a previous Ebola outbreak. . . .
[Detail in article explains more]
. . . The most hopeful experience to date involves blood donors who were recovering from Ebola, back in Congo in 1995. Their blood was transfused into eight patients who were ill with Ebola. Normally 80 percent of people with Ebola die, but
in this case, seven of the eight survived, according to a report by scientists from Congo and Belgium. . . .
- full article at link. -
[ 08-02-2014, 08:38 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by linky123 (Member # 19974) on :
Who wants to be the next person to be transported in that ambulance they brought the Ebola patient in?
Scary.
Posted by beaches (Member # 38251) on :
I think it is a HUGE mistake to bring a deadly infectious disease to the US.
Yes, these two people are US citizens, but they opted to put themselves in harms way, fully aware of the possible dire consequences of doing so. There are millions of other US citizens who did not opt to expose themselves to a deadly disease for which there is NO CURE.
There is nothing that can be done for these patients. This is a fatal disease. It's not as though anything can be done in the US that could increase their chances of survival.
By introducing this disease into our country, the powers-that-be could potentially release this deadly pathogen to US citizens. All it takes is one screw-up by one person.
Oh yeah, all that stuff about the CDC...we know just how accurately that gov't office has reported on Lyme/cos.
And I am SO confident that this agency is well-equipped to manage this deadly disease's introduction into our country...afterall...
- It's not always fatal. Many survive and are able to clear the virus from any kind of detection after a certain period of time. -
Posted by beaches (Member # 38251) on :
That's good to know.
But I still do not appreciate the fact that a deadly, fatal infectious disease is being introduced into our country unnecessarily, unnecessarily being the key word.
If I could find the logic behind this decision, I'd try to follow it. But there is no logic.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- It's not being introduced. It's being contained by very specific measures.
The logic is that these two people are coming home to receive better care in better surroundings, a move that will hopefully, save their lives,
and help doctors and researchers learn more. Better they learn more in very controlled situation than if it were to hit all of the sudden without such controls. -
Posted by beaches (Member # 38251) on :
It most definitely is being introduced into our country.
We can throw about all the jargon we want. But the bottom line is that a fatal infectious disease has now been introduced into our country.
Welcome to the USA, Ebola. We welcome you with open arms, just as we welcome the influx of foreigners crossing our borders. We invite you to bring to us all your infectious diseases!
What better care will these people receive? Better palliative care?
And so for two people, the leadership (hahaha) of our great country is willing to put the rest of the citizens of our country at risk? Really?
Better that the doctors and researchers learn overseas. How do you know they don't have controls?
Posted by linky123 (Member # 19974) on :
beaches, well said.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Speaking only about health matters, here, not politics or other matters.
Maybe we should shoot all the birds that migrate during the spring from places outside of our borders . . . or on their way out this autumn.
Maybe we should stop all ships (mice & birds stow-a-ways might have a fever) and planes, too. That way we would never be forced to fear again.
We could build a big glass dome. That would probably work really well to keep us contained.
But, my guess is that we can learn what we need to know for our wellness - and be part of the world, too. -
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
nice shot keeb..
but having concern about a situation that has the potential to be a major health crises is jus natural.
after all recently didnt they discover a virus that was accidentally left out or something? can't remember the exact details.
anytime you have humans doing anything, you have potential for a disaster.
after all, didn't mexico have a little problem?
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
this ain't political. no way no how.
but we have a right to be concerned.
after all, I'm the one they put in a room next to a tb patient coughing their bloody head off. drs and nurses were running around like crazy grabbing masks, booties, gloves and all. oh yes did I tell you they let me sit next to this person in the waiting room for hours and that this person admitted to flying into this country sick. they admitted to having active tb.
and did those drs ever once think about me or the other patients?
ah hell no they didnt.
so forgive me if I'm a little skeptical about any hospital trying to keep something lije ebola under wraps. and my mother died from a mersa outbreak in a hospital.
my gosh they can't even contain a staph or flu outbreak.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
well he can't be all bad,,,he's a texan.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Posted by susank (Member # 22150) on :
I read the Newsweek article a couple of days ago.
Our paper had reported Dr B had received a unit of blood from a survivor. I had to wonder if he received whole blood. Surely not - but that has been done. Looks like he got the boy's plasma.
Good thinking on the part of someone at the hospital. And I guess that hospital - or somewhere nearby - had the capability to separate the plasma from the blood.
As an IVIG patient - all this interests me.
Of course there are many steps taken in the manufacturing of IVIG. Those steps did not happen there "in the field".
Kind of reminds me of the saying, "In nature the remedy is always nearby".
I hope the survivors' blood is being "banked" for use now and in the future.
Thinking....folks that travel to foreign countries receive GammaGlobulin shots to protect them from diseases their bodies/immune systems have not been exposed to.
Of course there are no EBO antibodies in the GG shots.
But - could not these doctors etc be given some "convalescent plasma" to protect them - hopefully - from becoming infected when working in a hot zone? Or if infected - lessen the severity?
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
the news just reported there is another case in ummm new york I think. the person just cam back from africa.
Posted by beaches (Member # 38251) on :
From what I saw, it's not yet known if the person has it or not.
I think it would be prudent to quarantine those entering our country from this part of the world.
Or, don't let them in, period, until this epidemic is under control.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
I have close friends (missionaries) who just returned from Cameroon (West Africa). I hope they are OK!!
I haven't heard otherwise, so am trusting they are.
Posted by beaches (Member # 38251) on :
I sure hope so LT!
And so no one misunderstands me, I admire those who go overseas to do God's work. My uncle was a missionary who for many years worked in Africa and Latin America.
But Ebola is deadly. It is epidemic in that part of the world.
Our federal government's primary responsibility is to protect its citizens, period.
Who is looking out for the citizens of our country? Are people being permitted to fly freely into our country from Africa? If so, why?
Posted by beaches (Member # 38251) on :
FYI possible Ebola patient at Mt. Sinai hospital in NYC. Scary.
Posted by lostlyme (Member # 38561) on :
My opinion is it's smoke and mirrors to draw away attention from all the lyme disease in the media .
Do you honestly believe or trust what the cdc says.
I would not focus or dwell on it ,
Posted by beaches (Member # 38251) on :
Lostlyme, that's an interesting observation.
No, I don't give any creedence to the CDC regarding Lyme or Ebola!
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
The media does the smoke and mirrors thing all the time. Like little puppets.
Posted by beaches (Member # 38251) on :
Yes indeed. It'll be interesting to find out the truth.
I suspect that the truth might not come out if indeed this person in NYC tests positive. That would cause a major panic in one of our country's largest metro areas.
Posted by jennyfromtheblock (Member # 43805) on :
These patients are really here right now to be studied. They were given a serum in Africa and he had recovered enough to walk from the ambulance. I think the real issue was for the cdc and emory to be able to study them and try to advance on a world wide solution.
that being said, there were swat teams protecting those ambulances b/c they feared terrorists attacking and god know what.
Of course they say it is safe to have them here, all precautions taken etc...but come on, we all know how labs and hospitals mess up. Plum Island? it's not a far fetch something could get out.
Im sure these people, when they were treating patients in Africa were very careful in protecting themselves...yet they got sick too!
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