hi folks... new..or renewed.. to this page. Not new to lyme ... Ive seen great doctors and researched over the last decade or so. Been through many protacols after 2 years without a diagnosis.
Lyme with bigtime Babesia...Been round the block. Glaze over when someone shares their "cure". I don't want to chat endlessly on the topic. Too much information.
Been there. Depressing and obsessive,I got enough. I can't afford the literate doctors anymore.
I'm not without symptoms but I'm stable enough to function and live in denial that this is as good as it gets since I don't have the money,time or energy to work on any "recovery" process and maybe just get worse. I've chosen to Let It Be. So. what am I doing here?
I am interested in feedback on how the use... and overuse ... of alcohol effects others with Lyme. So. Yes, I drink. Only organic craft beer. When I first starting treatment for Lyme I recognized I was having extreme reactions to alcohol without extreme use. Hangovers before I drank my second beer.
Big time memory/ blackout stuff. 10 years later I now still drink. And as I would be lying if I said I always moderate my use... I have seen how it effects me and can see how little to no use would be the best practice.
Yes, I recognize how Lyme has effected my ability to resist and recover... I have found myself having to use alcohol to jumpstart my brain function and loosen depression.
My brain fog and general "Malaise" are lessoned and I am firing on ...well... more cylinders than usual. Otherwise... I could watch TV and sleep and live with no sense of purpose... ignoring the will to live. Cost/benefit.
I'm on no medications presently. (did tons of antibiotics 10 years ago which did make a profound difference...for a while. I am nowhere near as sick as I was before, but I am clearly still symptomatic). I take vitamins. I don't use drugs.*
(* I do not consider Marijuana a drug. I use it almost daily. Medicinally, legally and sparingly. Always organic medical grade. I don't care what people's opinion of this practice is since I have LITTLE TO NO problem with it.
I would be popping prescriptions or dead were it not for smoking pot. It changes my mind, relieves depression, lessons headaches and allows me to sleep. Side effects: fun.)
I am seeking some guidance and reflection about alcohol and Lyme. Do you have a clinical rap on why this happens? Point me to info on line? My doctor told me some stuff a long time ago but I forgot ... and was too clinical for me to totally follow.
People who know "sobriety" think I'm just another weak drunk who needs to get to a meeting. Using another excuse like all the other "unrecoverable" lifetime addicts.
Lyme is very complicated. People who even really want to get it, just don't. So. sorry for the long post, I didn't have time to write a short one.
I'm having memory/dropout/blackout stuff again related to drinking. Cost/benefit is getting towards parity.
Is this happening to me related to Lyme? Do others with Lyme use alcohol in the same fashion? (I have discussed this with other Lyme friends who feel it too.)
So..Other than a full throated assault again at this point in my life to get me to a higher "plateau"...battling the Spirocite...which I don't have time or money for..
any suggestions on a somewhat "simple" alternative that might help with the depression and stagnation of my brain?
Some other way to describe what drinking does to relieve my symptoms so intelligent people can understand better that I am not using Lyme as a "complete" excuse for medicating with alcohol.
Just a little more information so I can describe this problem in terms that may not be totally understandable to others but at least sounds like "somebody" qualified understands and agrees.
I'm ready to go back to the research pages (to a degree) to a least blind some people with knowledge that is anticdotal and scientific.
thanks for your indulgence and assistance folks. -peace and justice.
[ 07-28-2016, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: Lymetoo ]
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
Yep - alcohol is a go-to drug for people with Lyme. It gives the brain acetylaldehyde which lowers brain inflammation. I can't remember the neural cells involved but it's a brain painkiller. You can probably think better, operate better, drinking alcohol, because the neural cells are anesthetized.
It also upregulates GABA which can alleviate the neuromuscular heebie jeebies.
There are of course a zillion reasons not to do this, but I've see many people like you who've given up on "treatment" and are self-medicating exactly the same way. Add aspirin and red wine to the pot and you've probably got a system that lowers inflammation, protects the nervous system, relaxes smooth muscle and kills spirochetes in the bloodstream.
As far as alternative...there are none as far as I know.
Posted by bewp99 (Member # 48474) on :
Jordana... I kinda knew this. This is exactly what I needed to hear. I am not crazy or delusional... .You even gave me some big concepts to shut some people up who want to tsk tsk me about why its medicating. I know my body\brain. I know when it all started to change. I wish I could stop drinking and feel better. Don't know how. Doesn't work. Headaches and spacy concentration-memory loss vs. the zillion reasons to abstain or get on the "treatment" rollercoaster again. Life's short. Live with a somewhat functional brain today. I'll live "alive". Who cares what others with no knowledge think. I will survive. I will get by. I am dull, sad, unfocused and miserable otherwise. whatcha gonna do? My friend, I deeply appreciate the insight and the information. I gonna get a beer. ;\
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
K.
Just don't drive.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Various therapy modalities can help with use / abuse issues and the toxicity / liver / kidney damage that can happen from that when a toxic infection is in the picture
Such modalities also explore what's how to ease pain, nutrient therapy, etc.
CELIAC could be part of this, NUTRIENT DEFICENCIES, etc. Other things to sort out that most doctors don't consider.
Best to find LL ND so they have the background of unique characteristics of lyme - especially the adrenal connection that is one major reason some feel the need to grab onto whatever's closest for relief. ADRENAL issues are a huge piece of the puzzle here.
Still, for starters, you might consider exploring the range of support that may well exist right around you.
District of Columbia Association of Naturopathic Physicians (DCANP),
the professional organization for licensed Naturopathic Physicians (NDs) in Washington, D.C. NDs provide holistic, integrative medical services to patients of all ages and all types of diagnoses . . . .
Contact your area lyme support groups for some specific LL ND or LL LAc. recommendations. I think you will find NDs and LAcs to be the most understanding, knowledgeable and supportive in helping you achieve what you need short term and to establish health for your future.
Alcohol can make it nearly impossible to win over lyme. Help from those who truly understand and are also understanding can bring back life back to you. Really.
Ultimately, addressing lyme (and other infections) with a LLMD &/or LL ND directly is the key to resolving many symptoms while key support measures are in place.
Take care. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
Herbal Safety considerations & reference books; etc.
Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:
knowing which methods offer assertive & direct impact, which are only support and which are both. And when to use what, how to combine, & when to step back.
You can compare and contrast many approaches with links to articles, books, methods . . . -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Some good links come from a search for:
nutrients for those who use alcohol
The reason CELIAC is mentioned in a post above is that if gluten has kept your body deficient, alcohol use is a common reaction to that due to the pain & other issues that celiac can cause.
As you sort out possible avenues, always - always - be sure you have some degree of liver protection. It can't negate alcohol yet may give you a bit of a life preserver in some ways.
Topic: Beer, Wine - - Why Alcohol Does Not Mix with Lyme -
[ 07-30-2016, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by dal123 (Member # 6313) on :
This is interesting, my sister who had bad Lyme from a Tick bite recovered within 10 months on mono therapy and HEAVY DRINKING. I swear the hard liquor kills bugs. I heard a real life story about a man in a wheel chair buying Everclear at a liquor store in Oklahoma. He told the cashier his friend told him the Everclear would help him. Three months later he WALKED in, a new man for a one gallon refill of Everclear.!!
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
Well...I wouldn't consider alcohol to be Lyme treatment. But if antibiotics haven't worked and there are no other options it will keep brain inflammation down as long as you take care of your liver and get adequate nutrition.
If the abx don't work, it's not like I or anyone else is going to stop someone from finding and using a palliative drug that does work.
Posted by TNT (Member # 42349) on :
quote:Originally posted by dal123: This is interesting, my sister who had bad Lyme from a Tick bite recovered within 10 months on mono therapy and HEAVY DRINKING. I swear the hard liquor kills bugs. I heard a real life story about a man in a wheel chair buying Everclear at a liquor store in Oklahoma. He told the cashier his friend told him the Everclear would help him. Three months later he WALKED in, a new man for a one gallon refill of Everclear.!!
This is intriguing because I remember Lymedin2010 at one point mentioning people he knew had lyme who drank and smoked, but are doing fine, while he was clean and was only getting worse even while on treatment.
I thought alcohol use and smoking depressed the immune system?
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
You know...basically I'm not convinced that science really even knows what the immune system is, so it's hard to find studies without confirmation bias.
Smoking ties up white blood cells in the lungs and that'snot good, but nicotine is neuroprotective. Alcohol has powerful brain-modulating effects and kills pathogens but it also lowers I think neutrophils or something while it's being metabolized; but that suppression jumps back up when the body is clear of it.
I don't know...really you have to start with: define "immune system."
Posted by bewp99 (Member # 48474) on :
thanks folks... I knew I would get a range of answers. And yes, an open minded response. It's not therapy for me to drink. Just don't have the money for shopping different modalities anymore. As I said, Ive been through doctors, healers and natural practices..and Ive chosen to be as good as it gets and let it be. This is affirming and inspiring that you'all have input on this topic. Ten years studying Lyme has left me broke and a bit worn. My life has been devastated by this already. Im over sixty. I gotta live life for today. Its goin by so much faster than I care to say. So I stay awake today. However I can. To a degree. Very intrigueing. Very helpful. Thanks.
Posted by MADDOG (Member # 18) on :
Wow I did not know this!!!
How many times i said to my friend ,if i drink just the right amount I can think so clearly. it is like coming out of a cave into the light.
Everything focuses !!
It is so strange !!
MADDOG
Posted by Tricky Tickey (Member # 26546) on :
Haven't been on here in a loooong time.
I, also, drink excessively. I was sober for 15 years and after the separation from my husband, fell off the wagon slowly. You start with "just one", and it builds up. I have been nearly free of LD symptoms, but have been susceptible to opportunistic infections ever since I was sick in 2010.
I have guilt every day, yet the craving for alcohol continues to be overwhelming, at times. Since starting back, I have built a tolerance to it. It is true; you do need more to get the desired effect. I've stopped for 2 weeks, then tried to go to just casual drinking, but it always leads back to the same thing.
Buying it and bringing home to drink alone. Yep, one of those. Don't quite know the connection but it's a self medicating thing. Relaxes me. Yeah, but doing radical damage at the same time. I can only blame myself for continuing.
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
you know I'm a teetotaler. maybe once every two years or so i'll have a margarita. rarely...
I just don't like the taste. not wine, beer, nothing. must be wierd or something. my parents didn't drink but one of my sisters really drinks way too much. three orfour martinis or tanqueray on the rocks before dinner. to me thats too much.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
I'm so very sorry to hear this, Tricky Ticky. It is good to hear from you, however!
I know someone who has had a lot of damage from alcoholism. She is now battling cancer that was caused from it, even though she's been sober for nearly 10 years. (She goes to AA)
Alcohol can also eat away at your bones.
Please take care of yourself.
Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :
If it feels good, do it. Just don't hurt yourself or others in the process. That's my thought.
As for the depression. A good chiropractor can make an adjustment, IF you tell them you are depressed, and it can take the depression away instantly. It is amazing.
I wouldn't have believed that had I not seen it myself. Might be something to try?
Good luck! And hey there tricky tricky! Good to see you!
Posted by Tricky Tickey (Member # 26546) on :
Thanks ya'll!! I'm taking one day at a time. I also think I may be relapsing on the Lyme this summer. Ick! I'll probably post about it in medical questions.
Have missed the Lymenet family. So much has happened.....sigh. Been tough. Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
One thing that threw me off for a long time was the "symptom" listed for Lyme -- "intolerance to alcohol." Not me man. For about eight months leading up to dx having half a bottle of wine in me was the only time I felt normal.
After dx I went looking for the reason and there are two -- one; the brain burns acetylaldehyde, like I mentioned, but also there is NO ENDOTOXIN to irritate the gut, so in a way that is also anti-inflammatory, I also believe it kills spirochetes in the brain and the bloodstream based on MS studies that say drinking MS patients do better than non-drinking ones.
On the wagon now though. Gotta save the liver for drugs and dead bugs.
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