My LLMD recommended Annie Hopper's DVD's. It's a training progam about rewiring the brain, limbic system, etc. (Just Google Annie Hopper DVD's for more info.)
I found out that they cost over $300 so won't be ordering but I was wondering if there were any testimonials here.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
I've explored this a bit, but still don't see how it would help.
$300 is a bunch. You can probably find people on one of the mast cell facebook groups. Lots of them have tried DNRS. I'm waiting at least another 6 months to see how they do on it.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- My interpretation of this approach.
I knew someone who spent a week with her her coursework and came back with great judgment about anyone who would "choose to hold onto illness" sort of mentality - and seemingly afraid to be around others who were not all well as if less than great attitude could contaminate them.
I also spent some time looking deeper into her process so that I might better understand that friend and not say anything that would throw her off base after her return when she seemed so very vulnerable to my failure as a person. When vertigo tipped me over, it was more than she could take and blamed me.
The bottom line with Annie Hopper's philosophy is that those with chronic illness are over protecting themselves and they should be able to think themselves well with happy & positive thoughts alone.
Of course, a good attitude matters and - in some cases - for some issues - her approach may be of help . . . yet the failure and dare I say potentially abusive attitude of the treatment comes from failure to recognize the science behind some of the diseases or processes.
Infections are not the best to rely upon our happy thoughts alone. Same with some kinds of brain / tissue / inner ear damage.
My view is that she fails to consider that there are scientific and medical forces at work here - things she may not know about and even things that some doctors or science is not yet clear on -- but that in no way says the patients can think themselves out with happy thoughts alone. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Even when not for actual "medical" but for psychological treatment (which I do think is medical) IMO, anyone guiding such treatment, therapies, workshops or exercises
for those with chronic stealth infections / lyme, etc.
they MUST be lyme literate. Simply must know the science of lyme and be as fully LL as possible. If not, they cannot possibly have the training and education that someone with lyme, etc. requires.
Last time I checked AH was not at all LL. She has "had a lyme patient" here and there in workshops - and to voice that with the kinds of assurances that patients may read into that seems like a misrepresentation - but that is not at all the same thing as being properly trained about the science and medical aspects of lyme, et.al.
Her approach also really hits a tender point for me. After that week's training, my friend seemed so sure that I was "overprotecting" myself regarding what I need to do to stay safe and avoid sound, motion & flash triggered seizures, too.
I had to end that friendship as I could not subject myself that that kind of judgment. It was very unfortunate yet that friend seemed be so convinced that she needed her thought process about this more than she desired friendship with a real person who just happened to have some glitches. Sigh.
Yet, I need to also recognize that sometimes, someone might be in such a tender place that they must hold onto the idea that their thoughts alone can get them better, that they hold within themselves the key. They might really need that as a life saver. So I don't want to pull that from them or challenge them if they are in such a tender space.
But I can't "go swimming" with them, either or be the brunt of their judgment. -
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
"The bottom line with Annie Hopper's philosophy is that those with chronic illness are over protecting themselves and they should be able to think themselves well with happy & positive thoughts alone."
That's what I thought... I already have a positive attitude. It only carries a person so far when they are sick.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- luvmycat,
[In addition to properly addressing the infections, always the first key, of course - yet many don't have access to that kind of treatment so still do the best they can with what they have for the assertive / direct part of treatment]
What I have found for years to be most helpful brain / body "therapy" is QIGONG. Sleep also really matters so much that it should be the top priority, too.
There are many forms of qigong, some more militaristic in nature than the healing / restorative forms. Soaring Crane is just on of the latter. -
[ 12-21-2017, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
Qi Gong utilizes visualization techniques, breath control, and repeated fluid movements to channel the flow of Qi throughout the meridians in the body to release illness and disease that cause blockages and promote wellness.
Many describe it as giving yourself an acupuncture treatment without the needles.
What is Soaring Crane QiGong?
Soaring Crane QiGong is one of the top three (out of thousands) forms of QiGong. . . .
[cortisol and adrenal here because with lyme, they take such hits and that, in turn, can clobber they limbic part / function of the brain. Limbic support is adrenal support, and that would also include key adrenal supplements starting with Cordyceps.] -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Tai Chi might also be something to consider, though Qigong is much easier to learn and for anyone with vertigo, I think easier as it does not involve as much turning the head and "traveling" . . . many who move on to Tai Chi find Qigong to be a good starting point. You can always learn a form of Tai Chi later.
And, like Qigong, some of the forms of Tai Chi are much more "militaristic" in nature. I once wound up in a class that was so very wrong me and was shocked. The form matters.
It would be good to check out certified instructors, classes & then practice groups for after you receive in-person instruction. I did not find much yet for a start, Google search:
Reading List, Library . . . . -
Posted by luvmycat (Member # 4984) on :
Thanks all for the very helpful replies and info. If the DVD's were free, I'd give it a go BUT my $300+ is better spent on Lyme/Bart treatment that insurance isn't covering. :/
Keebler, I'll try those links. I really like Miranda Esmonde White who does stretching/toning. I have lots of her routines recorded. I wish we could stream but we can't where we live.
Posted by BartHeart (Member # 49759) on :
I got the DVDs and did the program out of desperation (and did follow it exactly to the best of my physical ability, which isn't that great): no help really. Just was so desperate.
It's not really "positive thinking"per se, it's based on neurogenesis research, *but* really watered-down and the exercises are pretty annoying/ridiculous, so getting past that is a challenge.
The basic gist is actually that Hopper believes the limbic system gets stuck in a loop and this causes a downward cascade of problems. It *is* true that borrelia seems to directly infect/impact the limbic system, among other parts of the brain, but that doesn't nec. mean it's fixable this way.
The only part of it that really would make sense for a Lyme patient would be if someone is really post-treatment and has no remaining infection and used it like a stroke recovery program, to further enhance repair of the brain. But for that, I personally would probably go with a stroke recovery program instead.
Otherwise, I find it all pretty obnoxious to market this stuff to people who are very sick and can't spare $300 as a lot of us seem to, but I tried to keep an open mind mainly b/c I'll try almost anything. I think it's alarming an LLMD would recommend this though.
Posted by luvmycat (Member # 4984) on :
Thanks BartHeart.
(Just found this reply in my spam folder!)
I think I'll pass on the DVD's. And I've tried every other self-help thing out there.
It's difficult to deal with Bart anxiety when it has intersected with an existing anxiety disorder! I had an emotional trauma 6 yrs ago which threw my amygdala into the deep fryer.
I got stuck in fight or flight mode (limbic system got stuck in a loop) and stressful things that have happened since then were not properly processed by my emotional system and added to the anxiety...sorta like gasoline on a fire. I've never really disclosed all this here.
BUT somewhere along the way, I contracted Bart and nearly went off the deep end with increased anxiety, OCD and all sorts of psycho symptoms.
I'm at a crossroads now where my antibiotic therapy may be coming to an end in another two or three months. My quandry is how much of the anxiety that I have could still be related to the Bart infection?
I'm on Zoloft and LDN plus my antibiotic regimen but will not fall into the benzo trap. It takes a megadose to get any relief and we all know where that leads.
Tried CBD oil tincture and vaping but no help there. Also, trying medical mj, one product at a time but I understand that can be a hunt and peck process to find something that works-----and it's EXPENSIVE!
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Kayak
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
luvmycat .. I have several friends who have been helped by this. I've been reading on one of the FB groups and now I'm interested.
After doing some reading, I think I may try Gupta's program. Several people said that Annie Hopper's program is pretty annoying. It works, but her approach sounds like it wouldn't be a fit for me.
Gupta has a live presentation and an app also. I think they are about the same price. If I can get rid of this MCS and other associated issues, I will be so grateful!
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
what type of M.D. tests for PORPHYRIA? Includes detail about: HPU / KPU . . . .
Some links here are expired yet you can find the detail by searching with article titles / authors. -
Posted by luvmycat (Member # 4984) on :
I've read about the Gupta program also and I find more positive information about that than I do the Annie Hopper program.
Gupta's program is $ too but it does have a $ back guarantee if I remember correctly.
Last night was day #1 of my plan to do a very slow taper off 100 mg of Zoloft.
I don't feel that it has helped and am wonderng in the back of my mind if it's actually contributing to the problem.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Thanks, Keeb ..
luvmycat .. Both programs have a money-back guarantee. I hear that with hers you have to fill out the workbook. (prove that you worked the program)
I'm not sure what he requires.
Posted by dogmom2 (Member # 23822) on :
I gave it a good try for 30 days. I have severe mcs and found that I started having sort of panic attacks in my sleep. It's like since I wasn't listening to the reactions while they were occurring(ie going thru the steps), my body had to get my attention another way. So didn't work for me. But they did give me a refund after the required 6 month waitng period.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Wow .. that's kinda scary.
Posted by Lassie27 (Member # 31083) on :
I did buy the program and started it for severe mcs/lyme. I only really did it for a few weeks but try to stick to some of the principles in terms of realizing how the mind/body connections works. I did experience some immediate improvements from very very severe mcs. I also found that visualizations can work but it can take time - for me for instance a few days of visualizing that I could use a computer that was new with chemicals and my reactions did stop eventually. It isn't really positive thinking. And I also agree that it is problematic that you can't be exposed to other's illness as it is triggering. I kinda now wish I had access to Guptas program - perhaps it is a little more grounded in this respect? Anyway, I think there is a great deal of value in these programs and it isn't really just positive thinking. I think you do have to clear infections as well. but if the body is in the rest and repair mode this is a huge help to healing.
Posted by Lassie27 (Member # 31083) on :
There is all this research on trauma and how it impacts the nervous system and immune system and can lead to these types of illnesses. I find it really interesting if it can be another tool to strengthen the body and help it heal. I think it proves that I forget how bad stress is for the body and that it is a huge factor in any illness. Has anyone tried any trauma therapies? DNRS is I think also a trauma reversal therapy. Any thoughts?
Posted by TX Lyme Mom (Member # 3162) on :
quote:Originally posted by BartHeart: The only part of it that really would make sense for a Lyme patient would be if someone is really post-treatment and has no remaining infection and used it like a stroke recovery program, to further enhance repair of the brain.
I concur whole-heartedly. Our daughter has been recovered from Lyme for nearly a decade, but she had been ill since early childhood and not diagnosed for 25 years. Therefore, she has some old habitual ways of dealing with stresses going all of the way back to childhood.
Recently, she had a chance to borrow Annie Hopper's set of DVDs from a friend who recommended it to her for dealing with deep-seated traumatic junk from the past, and she is finding it helpful so far -- although it requires more time than she has to devote to it in order to make maximum progress with it.
If this had been pushed onto her by a doctor though, as a way of getting her out of his busy waiting room, then we would both have been quite offended by that kind of brush-off.
OTOH, she did have a doctor once who recommended "tapping" which is another similar type of DNRS self-modification therapy, and she found tapping to be extremely beneficial -- and cost-effective, especially compared with the cost of private psychological counseling -- for a very specific situation of irrational anxiety and fear of flying on commercial airliners. (A very good friend had been killed in a large commercial airplane crash previously, and that event still haunted her.)
In contrast, she is not the least bit afraid of flying in a small private two-seater plane, where she feels a greater sense of personal control.
In fact, she took flying lessons and even soloed before she decided to give it up because her yet-undiagnosed Lyme symptoms made it too dangerous for her to continue to learn to fly. (This occurred long before she got her Lyme diagnosis and eventually achieved a successful recovery from Lyme.)
She had already fully recovered from Lyme when she practiced the "tapping" technique successfully though.
In other words, there is a time and a place for everything, including this DNRS self-healing technique. It's all a matter of choosing the right tool at the right time and for the specific job at hand.