posted
Randy saw his ND today. These are his results: Lyme Western Blot IGM ** 23 - 25 + ** 41 IND
Lyme IgG Western Blot 30 kDA + ** 41 ++ 58 +
What do you guys think?
She is taking this as a positive, including his clinical presentation. He has been on Abx for three months. Now she wants him to go on Byron White A-Bart and drop the ABX. Starting ONE drop per week at first.
During the antibiotics he had weeks when he was totally in bed with pain, sleeping 20 hours a day. He is better now. In fact he got dressed up and went to the opera w me this weekend. :-)
Interesting - our ND has not used the Byron White formulas much. She wants to use them on my husband. The local Byron White representative works in the area. The ND has invited her to meet with my husband in her office, a joint appointment, and invited her to consult on his case. She is fully trained and has trained expertise in muscle testing. I think that is exciting.
So that will be our approach to his treatment this fall. In addition she will keep giving him IV supplements, Vit shots, etc.
posted
Hi tutu! The doctor is counting it as positive - when she includes his clinical symptoms. Thank God she has known him for 15 years, off and on. She is treating him! And we have a plan now for this fall. Some providers would NOT consider it positive.... I am in a better state of mind. thanks for responding Ladybug
Posts: 47 | From Pacific Northwest | Registered: Jul 2011
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posted
I think some doctors consider even one Lyme-specific band positive to be enough. All the bands there are Lyme-specific bands, except for the 41 one which can show up with other borrelial infections, but certainly shows up often enough with us.
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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posted
Yes, those are Lyme specific. Band 41 is usually lyme unless you have a gum infection or syphilis. (there is a spirochetal infection of the gums and there is syphilis)
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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a gum infection??? Lymetutu he has been dealing with a serious tooth infection of two molars and last week had an awful oral surgery, and he had those infections for a long time
is that what you mean????
Posts: 47 | From Pacific Northwest | Registered: Jul 2011
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quote:Originally posted by BP-Ladybug: Randy saw his ND today. These are his results: Lyme Western Blot IGM ++ 23 - 25 + + 41 IND
What is the meaning of the two + signs before 23 - 25 +? Ditto the single + before 41?
Posts: 426 | From Berkeley, CA | Registered: Feb 2009
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I don't know exactly. That is why I am posting asking for help. That is how it is presented on the test results. ++ has something to do with clinical significance.
Posts: 47 | From Pacific Northwest | Registered: Jul 2011
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Chuck, I have the authentic IGX paperwork. It looks just like yours. I just typed here the results that were positive I didn't type all the others ** 23 - 25 kDa +
I am too tired to type it again.
Posts: 47 | From Pacific Northwest | Registered: Jul 2011
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posted
Band 41 is a general flagellin band - shows up when there are borrelial bacteria - they are motile through their flagellin. There's other borrelial bacteria - that's why they say it's not specific to Lyme. But I see it show up in practically everyone's Lyme test, including mine.
So maybe that's why it's included as a double-starred bands - those are specific to Lyme - 23-35, 31, 34, 39, 41, 83-93.
Chuck: re the interp of the tests, IGeneX wants the following for a positive test:
IgM: 41 positive, plus two other double-starred ones.
IgG: positive if two double-starred bands are positive, including the 41 one.
Whatever's to the right indicates how strongly positive we are - +, ++, +++.
Randy's test does not pass the IGeneX rules, even though he could very well have Lyme. If Randy had two more starred IgGs, he would qualify as CDC-positive, which wants five bands positive.
[ 08-26-2011, 03:52 AM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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posted
his doctor is treating him it was good enough for her when combined with her clinical observations of his condition
so, we shall see how these drops work on Bartonella...... at least he is not in bed for 20 hours a day at this point in time....
Posts: 47 | From Pacific Northwest | Registered: Jul 2011
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I hope you are taking these diseases seriously.
It took me just over three months to treat Bartonella.
I took Rifampin and ABX to get rid of Bartonella.
It is a terrible disease.
Then my husband got it from me because it is contagious!
You can read my other postings about our story, but the short version is that my sweeet "Bill Cosby" type husband changed into a raging, scary exhausted, obsessive, hating-everything kind of person.
Bartonella really changed my husbands personality.
I made an emergency call to my LLMD, and they started my husband on Rifampin and ABX right away, and within a day or two, my husband was back to affectionate, funny, wonderfully sweet husband.
He had been on Babesia, co-infection treatment, but because my husband had all these personality changes, my LLMD switched his treatment protocol over to treating Bartonella first.
So, I am trying to tell you, that if you continue to treat your husband with some type of drops,
then....
be very very wary of any sort of small changes in his personality.
You may wake up one day beside a completely scary lunatic !!!!
Bartonella needs to be taken seriously!
THese diseases also cycle up and down.
I have been sick for 25 years, but really really sick in the last 4, and there are times where things are really good, then I do too much, and get slammed even worse with the illness.
-------------------- I am not a doctor. I have no clue. Posts: 606 | From somewhere out there | Registered: Sep 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Robin123: Band 41 is a general flagellin band - shows up when there are borrelial bacteria - they are motile through their flagellin. There's other borrelial bacteria - that's why they say it's not specific to Lyme. But I see it show up in practically everyone's Lyme test, including mine.
So maybe that's why it's included as a double-starred bands - those are specific to Lyme - 23-35, 31, 34, 39, 41, 83-93.
Chuck: re the interp of the tests, IGeneX wants to following for a positive test:
IgM: 41 positive, plus two other double-starred ones.
IgG: positive if two double-starred bands are positive, including the 41 one.
Whatever's to the right indicates how strongly positive we are - +, ++, +++.
Randy's test does not pass the IGeneX rules, even though he could very well have Lyme. If Randy had two more starred IgGs, he would qualify as CDC-positive, which wants five bands positive.
Columbia U
quote:The 41 kd band is often found on the Western blot. We did a study where we looked at the banding patterns of patients with chronic Lyme disease and healthy controls from the inner city of NY who have never had Lyme disease. We found that a large percentage of the healthy controls tested positive on the 41kd band. For that reason, we don't feel the 41kd band has much clinical signfiicance in guiding us as to whether a person has been exposed to the agent of Lyme disease. One reason a positive 41 kd band might emerge is that our mouths contain non-pathogenic spirochetes; it is conceivable that some may seed the blood stream periodically and lead to the positive 41kd immune responses.
Many people never leave the concrete canyons.
Me, I have been playing around with Protein BLAST with results that demonstrate that FlaB (band 41) has a lot in common with a whole bunch of organisms.
IGeneX positive, IgG or IgM, requires two (2) + or better double starred bands. It can be any two double starred bands.
The maximum number of +s is ++++ (4) not three. Clongen also scores to a maximum of 4.
Yes Randy is IGeneX negative. But he should have the 30/31 IgG epitope test #489. If it is positive then Randy has/had lyme.
Posts: 426 | From Berkeley, CA | Registered: Feb 2009
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Interesting, Chuck, that the 41 band shows up that easily - yes, we have dental spirochetes!
And true, the 30/31 bands are Lyme-specific.
Ok, amending re my comment on the double-starred bands - Chuck is correct - any two double-starred bands for IgM and IgG.
Where I got my above comment from - I went and looked at my test results, and the IgG one had the 41 and one other, so that was my results - but...any two double-starred bands work - thx for the correction.
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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