posted
I've been in full-blown treatment for well over two years now. My bite occurred only two years previous, so it's not like this s*&@ has been bouncing around inside of me forever. Unfortunately, it was only back in June that I was diagnosed with the coinfection of Babesia. And as we all know, you can't get better from Lyme if you have untreated coinfections.
I'm currently taking Mepron, Amoxicillin, and Zithromax. Has anyone had a similar experience where there was a missed Babesia diagnosis? How long did it take to get better for you, after having been treated for both at the same time? (assuming you treated both at the same time)? I can't remember which kind of Babesia I have, but my LLMD told me that it was the highest titer of its kind that he has seen in many, many years of practicing in the world of Lyme medicine.
Ready for this f&%$#* nightmare to be over!!!!!!!!!!
Posts: 116 | From North Carolina | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
Yeah...my first one completely f&$#@* blew it, and the b&%*$ of it was that he came VERY highly recommended, as one of the top 5 LLMDs in the country, according to my well-informed, professional source. You know, you pay so much g*&%$#@ money, and you think that you are getting the best, but you're too *&%^$& up to help yourself (when it's neurological lyme), and you have to trust. And with that whole g*&^%$# argument about how you have to get worse before you can get better, one ASSUMES, oftentimes wrongly, that he/she is getting better, just because they feel s&^%*$. WRONG!!! One doctor calls it "happy herxing", when someone just keeps on going and going on with suffering treatment, without really seeing much improvement. That was me, and my f*&^$#% s*&^%$ doctor, as it turns out, even blew it at the two year point, by not thinking, "hmm....what's wrong with this picture?" Dumb-a@# M*%&*$ f^%$#*. (sigh)
Hey folks....sorry for all of the expletives, but I feel like I've been f*&^%$ royally here, and have now had enough of this s$#@. I want my g*&^$#@ life back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
posted
Well it took hubby 10 years to get a positive bloodtest for babesia because no one ever tested him for babesia WA1 (babesia duncani) which is not just on the West coast.
He had the ring form of babesia show up on a couple of blood smears so we had been treating it -- but never aggressively enough.
The problem is that even now they can only test for a few of the 100 or so possible babesia strains.
For anyone reading this -- if you are not getting better after 6 months or at least after a year of treatment insist your docs do a trial of babesia and bartonella meds regardless of test results.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Thank you for insights and recommendations Bea. Hopefully others will benefit from your unfortunate experience. A silver lining, if you will.
Posts: 116 | From North Carolina | Registered: Apr 2011
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tdtid
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posted
I'm sorry you are going through this. Hopefully you can get the Babesia under control and on a positive path.
I know that for me, Babesia has been the hardest one to get rid of. I'm working on my 4th round of treatment for that particular co-infection. With that said, this is not the usual. But yes, it's extremely frustrating.
Hang in there and keep fighting.
Cathy
-------------------- "To Dream The Impossible Dream" Man of La Mancha Posts: 2638 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Oct 2006
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For anyone reading this -- if you are not getting better after 6 months or at least after a year of treatment insist your docs do a trial of babesia and bartonella meds regardless of test results.
Bea Seibert
- PRECISELY!!!!!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
My babesia was not caught at the same time as lyme (more than two years after the bite) because they were testing for the wrong type.
It took about 8 months to kick the babs, but I still have lyme. So, don't assume that curing the coinfections will set you up for a cure of the lyme.
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Anybody else out there had it with this you-know-what (especially after much suffering and much patience?) I am by nature a very upbeat and positive person, but it is all relative, and I believe that everyone has a breaking point when it comes to patience with one thing in particular (in this case, Lyme and babesia). (sigh)
Posts: 116 | From North Carolina | Registered: Apr 2011
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manybites
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posted
I am on the same boat.My babesia was never treated as I was told I have no babesia and 2 years later in a car accident fighted for my life and got blood transfusion.Finally after 1 year I could increase the artemisin to 6 a day .
Fully blown due to car accident .
Posts: 1379 | From disable | Registered: Aug 2011
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
Originally posted by seibertneurolyme:
For anyone reading this -- if you are not getting better after 6 months or at least after a year of treatment insist your docs do a trial of babesia and bartonella meds regardless of test results.
Bea Seibert ----- I agree!!! Don't rely on tests! Treat coinfections if you don't improve even in the first 3 months!
I wouldn't be that patient even to wait 6 months without improvement.
Are you going to wait until he will find bart and all other coinfections after babesia is gone? Don't wait, just go on by list of symptoms... Or find out someone doing energetic tests.
They are MUCH MORE acurate than blood tests, in my experience.
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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lymeboy
Unregistered
posted
If you haven't looked at Bart yet, I suggest it. I got no where until I treated Bart. And yes It takes a super long time to treat. Just keep going and don't stop. I feel exactly the way you describe in your expletive laden post. I have some really bad days lately. But treating Bart a few months back had me feeling real good. I know I can get back there. But its impossible to see through the cloud of poop on some days.
A good dr. is REALLLLY hard to find. A good Lyme Doc is almost impossible to find. I havent yet, but we just have to keep looking. The money part of it is really the worst. Why should one go broke AND not get better? Pretty sad.
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Tracy9
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The truth is, there is no cure for Chronic Lyme Disease or chronic co infections. That's why Pam Weintraub named her book "Cure Unknown." Many of us have been here for years, fighting this for years, and we still aren't better and we may never be. However we always have hope. We can hope for better periods, or remission, but most of us will never be cured.
I've been in active, aggressive treatment for 7 years. I'm never going to get better. I'm never going to get back to the way I was. Once you've been sick this long, too many other things have gone far too wrong in your body. Everything is out of sorts. I am trying to adjust my thinking to learning to somehow live like this, (while still treating and fighting) and to stop waiting to "get my life back" or "get back to my old self" because frankly I'll be dead before that happens.
I'm bedridden, have been for years, I can't take care of myself, and at this point I'd be happy for a small amount of functioning to come back. We have an incurable disease. A lot of people get better, but most of us who've been here on the boards for years don't. We have to balance our fight, that we keep on fighting, with somehow adjusting to our new lives as disabled people.
I think we need to learn how to grieve our old lives, accept our new ones, with our limitations, and figure out how to live like this. I know I do. I've spent 7 years lying in bed waiting for the old me to magically reappear. Well that was a waste because she isn't ever coming back.
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
That's why I tried something different. After almost two years of abx, I knew that they had brought me as far as they could. I treated with the Bionic 880 and am well today. I was undiagnosed for over 30 years with varying levels of functionality until I was bitten again about 8 years ago. Three years later, I was diagnosed, three years after that, I got better and have been well for two years now.
I think I'd still be taking abx and spinning my wheels with them. They are good, but after some time, I think it takes something different. I think that's why a lot of the good LLMD's are looking to other methods.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Tracy9: The truth is, there is no cure for Chronic Lyme Disease or chronic co infections. That's why Pam Weintraub named her book "Cure Unknown." Many of us have been here for years, fighting this for years, and we still aren't better and we may never be. However we always have hope. We can hope for better periods, or remission, but most of us will never be cured.
Hi Tracy, When you have not yet tried to optimize glutathione in your body, the most important step has not yet been taken. I truly believe and hope that this could be it. Check out for yourself:
-------------------- "They that are whole have no need for the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance"(Mark 2.17) Posts: 149 | From Amsterdam | Registered: Jul 2011
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Brussels
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Member # 13480
posted
Tracy, there's not CURE but living in full remission is EXACTLY like cured!!!!
I don't take any meds, no herbs for lyme, and I have no symptom anymore. My daughter too. And we're still been bitten by ticks!!
Don't grieve your old lives!!
I'm better now than before lyme in many aspects (like my GI tract got healed from candida and so my skin candida also disappeared, still knocking on wood though).
My daughter is also doing great in school, piano, dance, languages... Her brain is fully back, her body too.
No way we're grieving anything!
It took time to heal the psychological wounds and the horror we lived during lyme, that's right. But as we don't fall sick again (I'm more than 2 years without treatment), these wounds are also being slowly healed.
My daughter is more than a year in remission (in January, will be her second year!).
Just see SixGkids above! She's fully active again!
People who stay on abx for more than 2 years are nuts in my opinion. If you don't cure in 2 years using abx, Gosh, change strategy!!
Whatever treatment that brings you no improvement in 2 years, it's time to change!!
Whatever the book says, there are TOO MANY of us in full remission to be dismissed.
Full remission is exactly as cured, I mean, for your daily life. Same as for herpes. When herpes is not active, you got no symptom, you got no treatment. Lyme is the same!
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Tracy9
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posted
I've been on IV Glutathione and it did nothing for me.
Brussels, my son is in complete remission. He went from being bedridden and unable to go to school his Jr and Sr years to being in Basic Training right now and doing very well. He didn't do anything special, though he was sick his entire life (both congenital and chronic.) He treated for a year and a half, IV and orals, was not even all that compliant with his meds. No supplements, no good diet, but he went from bedridden and sleeping round the clock to complete remission.
I have hundreds of Lyme Friends. I've only met a handful who got better like Six Goofy kids did, and Ryan did. I know people do get better, and I know it's great. But for the vast majority of us, we will regain some level of functioning, but not all. The really lucky ones will go in and out of remission. But many of us will never be well, and it's critical for us to focus on how to live with being sick.
There are some great books out there on how to be sick. I wish I'd had this mindset sooner. My denial and false hope led to years in bed, just waiting for something that was never going to come.
We can never give up, but we must accept that this IS an incurable disease, and that balancing that knowledte with our efforts is really important.
I think a lot of Lyme suicides could be avoided if people knew straight up from the beginning their lives might never be the same, but that they can still live a good life with their disabilities. What catches us in the web of hopelessness and defeat is thinking any day now, things are going to turn around when they never are. We are stuck in a never ending limbo because no one wants to say the truth; that Lyme is an incurable disease and that most of us will be dealing with it for the rest of our lives.
My holistic Lyme doctor told me Lyme and coinfections never go away. They will always come back. Knocking the load down is the goal.
The vast majority of us need to accept our lives are different. They are whether we face it or not. A select few will acheive full remission. Most of us won't. We may see some gains and be able to live wonderful lives, though, but only if we ACCEPT our limits and adjust our thinking and expectations.
All the while, we need to keep fighting, because we never know if or when we might hit remission. I've done antibiotics, herbals, etc...but for me, it's not just the Lyme. It's the collateral damage. The autoimmune diseases it has caused (Myasthenia Gravis) have permanently disabled me.
There is a strange relief yet huge sadness in being told "you'll never get well." It's kind of like, I knew it anyway. Now I can get on to accepting that and find the determination and strength to live my life differently. I need to make that my focus. No more waiting to get back to where I was. I have to make the most of this. This IS my life.
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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fflutterby
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Member # 28081
posted
I disagree Tracy9, I read this post and couldnt get it out of my head. So I am back to respond. I do believe that the vast majority DO reach remission. Look at the boards 5 years ago, many of those people reached remission and never turned back. Sure we have to be more careful than the average person but I feel like believing is half the battle.
Our immune systems do become strong enough to fight once you address all the co infections. I am sure people would just stick their head in a hole and stop wasting all their $$ if there wasnt a good chance to remission... I choose to believe I will reach remission and if I relapse I will treat again.
Having newbies read things like:
"I've only met a handful who got better"
and
A select few will acheive full remission. Most of us won't.
These statements are very discouraging to me as even more for the newbie. I am sorry you have been so sick for so long and I am not picking fight. I just remember days when seeing a post like this would set me back into a black dark place.
-------------------- Psalm 46 1 God is our refuge and strength Posts: 1367 | From North Jersey | Registered: Sep 2010
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glm1111
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posted
jedidano,
After 4 yrs of abx I started tx for parasites. Parasites/worms can play a MAJOR role in Lyme disease.
Dr.K. treats ALL of his pts for parasites FIRST and Lyme SECOND. Dr.K. uses pharma antiparasitics, but tx aggressively with herbs and salt/c saved my life.
Still can't believe that teh Filarial Worm co-infection which has been found in over 40% of ticks dissected by researcher Eva Sapi is being ignored.
This is what came pouring out of me after 6 mos of herbs and then salt/c You might want to check out what some Lyme sufferers at lymestrategies are doing as well.
Research parasites and google symptoms. These protocols also took care of my babs and bart. Sometimes we have to be proactive about other tx because docs (even LLMDs) don't have all the answers.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
Tracy, I'm SO glad your son reached full remission!
And I DO agree with you that this disease is HARD to treat.
I however disagree with you that it is a matter of luck. There was no luck in my treatment, nor in my daughter's treatment. I was the WORST patient of my lyme doctor. He only told me that when he declared me cured 4 years later.
He said he never seen anyone so bad improve so fast. It was not fast, it took me 4 years!!! But he said, it WAS fast. I was on about 50-70 supplements/ herbs / homeopathy a day for many months. I kept changing treatments almost daily, non-stop.
I followed dr. K's treatments for the first 3 years. Dr. K. himself was a lyme sufferer, who got totally well. Too many of his patients get well to be a lucky trick, if you see what I mean.
I do think that energetic tests helped a lot, specially to clear the last 10% until I reached 100%.
Many lyme patients get to 80% in various treatments, which is great. It is the last part of their journey that is extremely difficult and if you depend on luck, very very few will reach 100%.
That I agree with you!!
But I don't think there was much luck in my case, nor in my daughter's. I can't see where was my luck, as I fought this disease with all my strength, every minute of my days for 4 years.
Being reinfected again many times, then relapsing in winter, etc. Same path for my daughter.
If we are both out, I don't credit that to luck.
I would win the lotto if it was luck that put me where I am TOGETHER with my daughter. Two chronic lyme sufferers in one family 100% well in 4 years of treatment is more than luck.
It is not ONLY the bacteria, the parasites that makes us sick. There's much more behind to be treated. The 'behind things' provide the milieu for bacterial growth, parasitic growth.
Dr. K. does treat parasites, bacteria, protozoans, mold, funghi, candida, viruses... But he treats much more than that!
Many people, even without ART or other energetic tests, reach 80-90%. And this is already a great thing in itself as you get your lives back almost to 100%! I've seen that on and off since I visit LN in 2005.
In the end, most people improve, no matter what treatment they chose, if they persist treating. Not all, but most.
Now, it's the last 20% that creates problem. I agree that from there on, it is VERY hard and that if one does not have any use of energetic tests, only few lucky people will reach 100%. I totally agree!
But wait until they get bitten again, and the cycle re-starts, without having any warranty they will reach 100% again as treatment changes.
I tell you, I've been reinfected too many times to see the cycle of hell restarting. Healing never comes the same way, we get new pathogens, our body is different, and treatment must change.
Having new reinfection on top of chronic lyme is the worst that can happen. If you ever lived that, like new babesia infection totally active after years of big fight against chronic lyme, you will know....
Even though, we both could get out. I don't credit that to luck. Possibly a tiny bit of luck, but that's all. I fought that with all my strength, daily changing my treatment... until I found photon treatment. Then things got easier and that's where we are.
We're still being bitten, but we're less afraid of this disease. We're still hiking in the woods around, not daily, but almost. Do we use repellents? When I plan to go in the woods before I leave home, yes, but if we just stroll and get into the woods, no.
If I hadn't the tools to get out of lyme in case we get sick again, you can bet we wouldn't be playing with fire.
So, nope, this is a hard disease to treat, I agree, but there's very little luck in getting to 100%, specially if you are not a child.
Children usually have better immune systems than us for lyme, for what I keep reading.
Anyway, I never lost hope. I hope most of you won't!
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Tracy9, I hear you and I think there is room for all of us in the world. Most people do not want to give up, and I can see your point where that feels like a burden, if there really is no hope to get well.
Hard to say what is what - only God knows. And I think there is a little God in each of us and we can rely on that. We each have our own devine guidance.
I think whatever produces less stress on you is the right answer for you. And it is fine, even if not everyone has the same path. It is nice to have people agree with you, but it is not necessary. And I am sure some feel just as you do. I think there is no right answer that fits all.
At the same time, I can't help but wonder, like some others have already done, if something else could help you - not to contradict you or produce stress - just to help, for real, not just false hope. It is worth thinking and learning and trying things, I think, without getting too excited about it, if that creates too much stress.
I am not saying you will get well, just trying to see if there is anything that you may not have tried yet that others have used to get them better: like worm treatments, co-infection treatements, immune support, diet, physcial therapy, even the electromagnetic treatments... anything you have not tried. There is so much and so many variables.
As long as you are still on lymenet, you will probably read a lot of information anyway.
I am learning a lot about diet now - probiotics and fermented foods, am reading The Body Ecology Diet book, among others. Nothing may come of it. I am just investigating and trying something I have not tried yet.
Thanks for your post and all the best to you in any case!
-------------------- Persistence, persistence, persistence!!! "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence... Persistence and determination are omnipotent." attributed to Calvin Coolidge Posts: 599 | From USA | Registered: Jun 2011
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Brussels
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Member # 13480
posted
Harmony, it was similar to Sixgkids. She used the Bionic 880, I used the PE1.
quote:Originally posted by Tracy9: I've been on IV Glutathione and it did nothing for me.
Hello Tracy, IV is not the way to deal with Glutathione, on the contrary, it may be a good idea for acute intoxication, but it is a bad idea when you are dealing with a chronic situation.
The glutathione is normally made in the cells, but if you deliver it straight into the bloodstream, this will mess up the delicate balance. Some cells can accept the glutathione, because the membranes are large enough, but most will not receive anything, because there is also a feedback system, where signals will be delivered throughout the body when the blood has been flooded with the stuff. The signal will tell that enough glutathione is there, while some cells still are starving of glutathione.
The molecules are simply too large to pass most membranes and certainly the bloodbrainbarrier, so the IV does not get where you most need it and want it. On the contrary you will end up with less glutathione in those places because of the biofeedback system. The natural production will go down.
It is a rather shortsighted and unsubtle approach to just dump an IV assuming that it is like a gas tank you must fill in order to have plenty of energy again.
Now with Lyme, a chronic and complex situation, the only way to get glutathione levels up on a longer term, permanently and where you need it, is to create the conditions in which the body can fix the molecules in the cell by giving all the materials the body needs to make the Glutathione. So you will need optimum selenium in the system as well as the three components of Glutathione.
So you have not yet received the right treatment for this disease and it would be interesting to see where your blood levels on selenium and glutathione are at. Given the essential and pivotal importance of glutathione in the immune system and in the detoxification abilities of the body, there might still be a lot improvement to gain here.
It is clear that in young people the glutathione status usually is fine until about 20 years of age, explaining why they have a much better chance to re bounce from this disease.
Until you push the right button nothing will work and things may seem hopeless, but pushing the right button just might set the wheels back in motion.
I hope I have been able to explain clearly enough, because this is not my native language. Good luck for you and still hopefully improvements of your well being!
Leonardjio
-------------------- "They that are whole have no need for the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance"(Mark 2.17) Posts: 149 | From Amsterdam | Registered: Jul 2011
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Tracy9
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posted
Brussels, that is a fantastic story! So you got well with Dr. K? I have several friends seeing him now. Most of my closest friends are very, very sick...and I have seen some of them go in and out of suicidal ideation. I think the only thing that would be helpful for them right now is a change of attitude and acceptance, this is your life but it doesn't have to mean it's over, it's just different, you don't have to kill yourself. I hope that makes sense. Many of my friends have been sick for a very long time and do not have the funds for treatment. They don't have access to things that might get them well. There is a large community of people who are probably going to be stuck like this, unfortunately.
For me, it's more the Myasthenia Gravis that is permanently disabling me.
I tried to get across that my point is, WHILE we are trying to achieve remission, it's okay and important to accept our life changes, and adjust to them, and be grateful for whatever small things we do have. Personally I'm trying very hard to do this. It's not easy for me. I hate being bedridden. But again, I'm dealing with an incurable autoimmune disease caused by Lyme that will never go away, Lyme or no Lyme.
It's really exciting to hear all these success stories. I do think if I could beat Lyme, and co infections, I'd regain some functioning. I'm hoping to make some progress when I restart IV next month. I made some real gains on 2 months of Tygacil but couldn't tolerate the nausea and vomiting. I'm going back on Rocephin the start of October.
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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Brussels
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Dr Nicolas Hedberg, on autoimmune diseases. The video has 9 parts but I found it was very interesting to see the relation between infections, toxicity and autoimmune diseases. ------------------- Tracy, I haven't been treated by dr. K. directly, but by his right hand in Europe, and attended some of his courses here.
You are right that sometimes we have to accept our situation... I just couldn't. I'll explain why.
I would not be able to accept a diagnosis of autoimmune disease saying I'll be forever sick (like when one lyme doctor talked about post lyme disease bullsh... to me).
I said, how could it be that I was healthy before that bite, and suddenly get a life long autoimmune condition? No way to accept that in my head.
I went against these short minded doctors. Like us all fighting lyme. I had a big reason to live inside me, and that reason made me fight (my daughter).
If I had not that single reason, I think I would just let go. It was easier to let go than fight.
But if I started my journey on the 'acceptance' mood, I wouldn't be here to tell my story, I don't believe so.
It was exactly that NOT-acceptance that made me move, send doctors literally to hell and promise never to see them again for lyme, learn energetic tests by myself, buy books and do everything I could myself with little help (until I found the wonderful dr. K's practioners).
Even after I found them, I never let them guide me 100%, so I countinued learning and trying.
Letting yourself accept a diagnosis just because the doctors never seen anyone get better from these autoimmune diseases, is a choice.
I would never though believe them without a BIG fight, and very many ways of trying to get out of being sick.
Never tell me that autoimmune diseases are incurable, like diabetis, hypertension, lupus, Sjogrens, etc. I can't take that for granted. Even autismus, that is considered incurable, see what dr. K. does to some of these kids!! They do get cured.
I just see that Myasthenia gravis looks horrible. So sorry you have to live this hell. It must be really hard. On top of lyme or due to lyme, but anyway, awful symptoms...
Crossing my fingers you get a bit better and can get out of bed again. ---------------------------
there are cheaper ways to get rid of lyme, I believe. Not simple, but not expensive. I wished people could share their infrared machines and so on, and copy nosodes to each other and do treatments like that.
But when one is so sick that can't think for themselves, it is difficult to think about helping others. No energy for that...
I still do my best to help people around. I just came back from Asia and discovered that now, in Switzerland, borrelia nosodes are FORBIDDEN to be sold!!!
I could buy them before I left Europe, now my friend can't find it, I got to look in Belgium.
I'll buy some and stock them because soon, our governments will take them off from the whole European market!!!
Can you imagine that even dr. W.'s protocol can't be done here in Switzerland then, without importing the materials from abroad?? Amazing isn't it? -----
Tracy, I hope your acceptance comes for a good reason, and that acceptance doesn't mean giving up, on the contrary, that that gives you strength to continue fighting.
I'm REALLY convinced, by own experience, that only people who really want to get well NO MATTER HOW, will be able to get out of very bad chronic disease.
Some doctors know by the eye expression, before cancer surgery, if a patient will wake up after operation and improve, or if the patient already gave up BEFORE the operation. I heard that so many times, and I do believe that 'mood' plays a role.
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