Topic: Hypothesis: the pathogens of chronic Lyme disease are in the GI system
Dave6002
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Hypothesis:the pathogens of chronic Lyme disease are in the GI system not anywhere else.
the pathogens(bacteria, viruses, Mycoplasma,Protozoa...) of Lyme disease are hiding in the gastrointestinal system, where the immune system is suppressed(Immune privilege?)so that it can tolerate various food antigens and the intestinal flora.
The Lyme pathogens(parasites) take advantage of the suppressed intestine immunity and are able to escape from the immune system.
Further they form biofilms to protect them from the immune system and antibiotics. They secret toxins into the blood stream. It is the toxins that cause systemic symptoms(body pains, hand pains, knee pains, nausea, insomnia...).
Therapeutic strategies for chronic Lyme disease:Focus on the GI/Clean the GI
1. Destroy the biofilms of the Lyme pathogens. Salt/C probably is effective;
2.Antibiotics;
3.Removing toxin by toxin binders;
4.Probiotics (bacteria,yeast and fungi) to crowd out, inhibit or kill the Lyme pathogens.
Using this hypothesis may explain a lot of phenomena that can not be explained before.
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Not to rain on your parade, but I can think of a couple of potential problems with this hypothesis.
1) The majority of the immune system actually resides in the gut -- think it called GALT -- Gut Associated Lymphoid Tissue or something close to that.
2) How do you explain the fact that IV meds often work better than oral? -- they bypass the stomach.
Bea Seibert
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Dave6002
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1) The majority of the immune system actually resides in the gut -- think it called GALT -- Gut Associated Lymphoid Tissue or something close to that.
That's true, but the GI immune system is very different from the other places. It has to be tolerant to food antigens and probiotics.
2) How do you explain the fact that IV meds often work better than oral? -- they bypass the stomach.
Maybe they bypass the Lyme biofilms and can reach the pathogens directly: the pathogens are attaching to the intestinal epithelial cells and feed on these cells, to which the IV antibiotics can reach. On the other hand, the pathogens are covered by the biofilms and oral antibiotics cannot reach them.
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Dave6002
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If the Lyme pathogens were residing in the blood stream, they would elicit severe immune reactions,meaning high fever... abnormal complete blood counts.
However, it's not the case with Lyme patients: no sign for infection. Often, every test is normal.
Probably that's why some duck said it's in your mind.
But where are the enemy?
If you don't know where they are, where you are aiming at?
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Dave6002
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I have been ill for over six years now and I tried almost everything you can see on the Lymnet without significant progress.
And I was tested CDC positive for Borrelia burgdorferi several months after I fell ill, and immediately put on Doxy, which saved my life(I thought the Bb had been finished by Doxy). Then several weeks of high dose of Rocephin with no progress.
No significant progress in 6 years even I have been on abx most of the time.
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Dave6002
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Now I am testing the hypothesis using Salt/C to destroy the biofilms and Levequin to kill the pathogens.
It seems working for the first time in the 6 years! Every symptom has been lessened.
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17hens
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Have you been treated for coinfections?
-------------------- "My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26
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Haley
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Dave - I don't know if I agree with you about it all being toxins, but I would really like to know how the salt C works.
I actually know for a fact that there is stuff in my blood. The story is far more disgusting than the poop stories so I won't go into it, but take my word for it, there was something visible in my blood.
I am considering Salt/C but I'm scared to do it. Please post once you have been on it a few days, I'd like to know what kind of reaction you have.
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glm1111
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I have felt this way since I had many parasites exit my G.I. tract after tx with antiparasitic herbs and salt/c. This was after 4 yrs of abx incl 6 mos of IVs didn't really do much.
The cliche "Disease Starts In The Colon" holds much truth. I really feel (after much research and personal experience,) this to be true.
The pathogens, including spirochetes and parasites, can disseminate into the blood stream, brain and central nervous system.
Google "Gu Syndrome" and scroll down to Traditional Chinese Approaches To Gu Syndrome. Very interesting reading about spirochetes, bacteria, parasites etc.
Gael
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Haley
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This doesn't make sense to me. When the tick bites you it injects a plethora of pathogens into the blood. I have no doubt that there are toxins coming form the gut as well.
When I was bitten, I was violently ill. It didn't gradually creep up on me. My blood was swarming with pathogens.
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Dave6002
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According to this hypothesis, if a patient use long terms antibiotics without supplementing probiotics, the intestinal bioflora would be destroyed by the abx. The bioflora have pathogens-inhibiting function. Without the bioflora,there would be more pathogens and the patient would become sicker.
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Haley
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Dave - How much salt and how much c do you use?
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Dave6002
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Haley,
The Salt/C seems working for me. In the past I used occasionally and I didn't stick to it because I was not convinced even a lot of people swear to it
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Dave6002
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I used 5g sea salt and 4000mg of VC twice a day
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17hens
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1 gram for every 10 lbs of bodyweight up to 18 grams. Find it on lymephotos.com (or ask Gael).
-------------------- "My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26
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Haley
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I'm trying it. If you don't see me posting I overdosed on salt/C BTW what is VC?
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Dave6002
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Hens,
Thanks for asking.
I tried regimes for Babesia and Bart and I felt better when on Rifampin. But Rifampin acted more like a pain-killer, after awhile it lost its effects.
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Haley
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Last question and yes I will ask my doctor. Any thoughts on using my infrared sauna while doing salt/c?
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Dave6002
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Haley,
Use a lot of water(500ml)and you will be fine. Vitamin C
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Dave6002
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Any thoughts on using my infrared sauna while doing salt/c?
I didn't see any contradiction here. I use a panel of 880nm/630nm of LED lights when I am sleeping
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17hens
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quote:Originally posted by Dave6002: Hens,
Thanks for asking.
I tried regimes for Babesia and Bart and I felt better when on Rifampin. But Rifampin acted more like a pain-killer, after awhile it lost its effects.
Rifampin lost its effects for me too. But when I started treating Bart & Babs together, boy that was the ticket! (And I wasn't even sure I had babesia until I noticed a 5 day cycle of feeling worse.)
Haley, make sure you start slowly, like 1/4 tsp for a few days and then 3/4 tsp for a few days and so on. Make sure you're feeling OK before moving up.
-------------------- "My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26
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Haley
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Thanks 17 hens, I will be careful. Teaspoons is more my language also.
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Dave6002
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quote:But when I started treating Bart & Babs together, boy that was the ticket! (And I wasn't even sure I had babesia until I noticed a 5 day cycle of feeling worse.)
Hens, interesting! What regime you are on? I thought I had Babsia because my heart raced madly when I woke up in the past. Now it's become quieter even I am not treating Babsia.
Now I tend to think the racing heart is a compensational response to the decreased blood supply
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Dave6002
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Gael,
You are right:"Disease Starts In The Colon"
I have been struggling with my GI all the time.
If my GI is good I feel good; If my GI is bad, I feel bad.
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glm1111
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Anyone starting on salt/c should ramp up slowly. Start with 1/4 tsp sea salt, and 1/4 tsp Ester C powder with bioflavinoids in a large glass of water.
Ramp up 1/4 tsp at a time according to how you are herxing, and drink plenty of extra water. The KEY to salt/c is to stay on it. The addition of antiparasitic herbs is also helpful.
Gael
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Dave6002
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Bea Seibert,
1) The majority of the immune system actually resides in the gut -- think it called GALT -- Gut Associated Lymphoid Tissue or something close to that.
You are right that the GI has its own immune structure, which may affect the whole immune system.
Although I also disagree with that the chronic Lyme is a Post-Lyme disease, the immune system definitely play a role in Lyme disease: that it can not eradicate the Lyme pathogens suggest the immune system is disordered or defect.
So taking care of the immune system is also important in the Lyme therapy
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17hens
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I was on Mepron, Zith, Bactrim DS for 5 months and made huge progress.
Then we lost health insurance and took herbs for 4 months losing ground.
This past spring I went to Germany for Bionic treatment (photon light) and in 6 months can say my borrelia is gone, my bartonella is gone or nearly gone (only have skin symptoms left) and babesia is, well, better but not gone yet. Still working on Babesia. I'll get there.
But I've got my life back!!
-------------------- "My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26
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Dave6002
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The 1000 post marker:
Food is the best medicine!
Pay attention to the vegetables that have been used by humans for thousands of years.
Dave6002
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Happy for you,17hens.
It is sad that the US health insurance system is so bad.
Anyway,without insurance, without doctors, we still can live a better life
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Dave6002
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quote:When I was bitten, I was violently ill. It didn't gradually creep up on me. My blood was swarming with pathogens.
Haley, when you were violently ill, there might be some pathogens in your blood. However, after the disease become chronic, I don't believe that there are still swarming pathogens in your blood, Otherwise you would feel violently ill because your immune system would react violently to the pathogens.
I don't know what's your profession. I used to use high power microscope to examine my blood when I was very ill and I couldn't conclude that there were a lot of pathogens in my blood. You may see some strange things in your blood, they are not pathogens, but likely are normal components of the blood.
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Brussels
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Borrelia does not like the blood. It likes connective tissue!!
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Marnie
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Tritec.
Rantinidine (Zantac) Bismuth CITRATE. (That is NOT Pepto Bismol!)
Kills ALL forms of Bb in the GI track.
Avail. in Europe or compounding pharm. here. Rx.
There is a correlation between abnormally high levels of certain bacteria (Yersinia enterocolitica and Borrelia burgdorferi) in the digestive system and autoimmune hypothyroidism.
The first treatment hubby had after he got sick and before he was diagnosed with tickborne infections was antiparasite treatment. He had really bad gastritis and duodentitis and was found to have ascaris and giardia and a couple of other G.I. parasites.
Treating that did help him regain the 30 pounds he lost and he was able to eat more than baby food. But healing the G.I. as demonstrated by follow-up endoscopies and resolution of G.I. symptoms did nothing for the neurological symptoms of lyme and babesia and bartonella/BLO and HGA (human granulocytic anaplasma)and rocky mountain spotted fever and borna virus.
The parkinsonian tremors remained and progressed into myoclonus and other weird movement disorder issues such as dystonia and the seizure-like episodes increased in frequency and severity.
Those symptoms did not really start to significantly improve until the bloodslides showed that the haemobartonella or whatever pathogen F lab and Clongen lab saw repeatedly was eradicated.
And yes hubby still has bacteria swarming in his bloodstream. See the link below which describes his most recent bloodslide.
I remember a couple of years ago that someone on LymeNet sent a copy of their F lab bloodslide to the CDC. The comment they got back was that they should be septic if they really had such a high level of bacteria in their bloodstream. The point that the CDC missed was that bartonella or BLO or haemobartonella plus many of the other coinfections and even lyme severely depress the immune system so the body does not recognize and produce antibodies to the various pathogens.
Bea Seibert
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Keebler
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- Quote: "Hypothesis:the pathogens of chronic Lyme disease are in the GI system not anywhere else." (end quote)
Borrelia can enter the nerve fibers in the brain within 12 hours of a bite from an infected tick, maybe sooner.
The work of Alan B. Macdonald MD, in the field of neuroborreliosis (and alzheimer's) very clearly identifies it in brain tissue. Others find it in the heart and other organs, too.
There is a stunning video of how the spirochete can literally rocket through human tissue, not even needed veins or arteries to get around.
Anytime it is stressed by vibration or other irritation, a spirochete can shoot off to deeper, quieter quarters across tissue and pretty much do what it wants, including going into cyst form anywhere it wants.
Sure, the G.I. tract is vital but lyme does not keep to any one address once it enters a body. -
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glm1111
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Given that ascaris can lay up to 200,000 eggs a day, along with other parasites laying eggs in the millions, it is vital to stay on antiparasitics for an extended period of time.
There was a recent post about Dr.K. stating that in order to get rid of babesia, parasites need to be eradicated first, I found that to be very true in my own case.
The parasites are protecting the Lyme bacteria, as well as fungus, yeast and mercury as GiGi has mentioned in the Babushka principal.
Eradicating these infections can take 3-5 yrs. If even one egg is left over, the cycle will start all over again and can disseminate into the brain, other organs and central nervous system.
Bea,
I would seriously take another look at treating with antiparasitics, since other treatments don't seem to be working. Just my 2 cents,
Gael
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Haley
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Gael - Lymephotos says that you will see results right away with C/salt. Was that your experience?
I started today with C/salt.... whooohooo... will be posting results in a few weeks.
I'm also gong to hit up my doc for Ivermectin in about a week.
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glm1111
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Haley,
I first did a lot of antiparasitic herbs for the first six mos. It was 2 days after I started the salt/c that a mass exodus of parasites occured, but that's because, they were already dying from the herbs.
I believe the person in lymephotos started with higher doses right away and that's why they saw immediate results. The parasites can't stand the salt.
I prefer to start with lower doses so you don't shock yourself as well, and run in to other problems. Slow and steady wins the race.
The combo seems to be deadly to the parasites, but one mos is not nearly enough. I also added lots of digestive enzymes (Super Digestaway by Soloray) which are also antiparasitic.
P. S. Just a note about the brain/gut connection....my experience has been that when doing this protocol, my neuro symptoms also started to clear. The enzymes played a big role in this as well.
Gael
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Haley
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Thanks Gael. I've got enzymes on board as well.
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Dave6002
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Haley,
quote:I would put a link of a photo of what was on the slide but, it even freaks me out, so I prefer not to post it.
This will be a very good project: I suggest extracting RNA from your blood and do a deep RNA sequencing then you'll know exactly what organisms are in your blood.
Only morphology is not enough for microscopic organisms: seeing is not believing, we need to go to the molecular levels.
I was seeing a kind of creatures looking like a tiny extraterrestrial creature to me in my blood under a microscope. They are smaller than red blood cells, bigger than platelets.They look very odd to me, but I was never convinced they are pathogens not a normal structure of the blood so I didn't go further.
Probably, I should try to do a deep sequencing to get to the bottom: to see if there are some exogenous creatures living in my blood.
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Dave6002
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Bea Seibert,
I have been following your hubby's progress and feel that he may have infections in the brain because he has parkinsonian tremors--a clear sign of central nerve system problem.
As for the F lab testing, I saw some pictures, but never convinced just based on morphology at cellular levels.
If you suspect there are bacteria swarming in his bloodstream, I suggest do a deep RNA sequencing, that will clearly tell you what they are and give some hints on what therapeutic strategy you should seek
Like your hubby, at beginning I was suspecting GI parasites because even drinking a little bit water, my stomach would become very uncomfortable. However the endoscope, parasite testing and MIR of the stomach didn't reveal anything.
My symptoms are systemic: I have pains all over my body and the blood also flow to every where. I did suspect if I had pathogens in the bloodstream.
Then I found the info that hand-foot syndrome developed in some cancer patients under chemotherapy. "Following administration of chemotherapy, small amounts of drug leak out of very small blood vessels called capillaries in the palms of the hands and soles of the feet. Exposure of your hands and feet to heat as well as friction on your palms and soles increases the amount of drug in the capillaries and increases the amount of drug leakage."
That's why I started to suspect that my systemic pains are caused by toxins released by some parasites in the GI
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Dave6002
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Marnie, thanks, maybe I should try Tritec.
quote:HUGE mind-healthy gut connection.
I agree.
For the past several years, I would feel very uncomfortably cold after siting awhile in a air-conditioned room.
Eating some fermented food with living fungi and yeasts make a huge difference: no more cold
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Dave6002
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Brussels
quote:Borrelia does not like the blood. It likes connective tissue!!
I agree and also the gang members of Borrelia don't like the blood. That's why I suggested that Lyme pathogens (not Borrelia anymore, which can be killed by abx)reside in the GI system, which can absorb all kinds of molecules including the Lyme toxins and put into the bloodstream and cause systemic symptoms
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Dave6002
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Keebler, thanks for the info
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I am an accountant not a scientist. When you suggest doing a deep RNA sequencing of the blood I am not sure how to go about that -- what lab would do such a test? And how does that differ from PCR testing which is based on DNA?
Dr K at Clongen has tried to do PCR testing of hubby's blood for babesia and was unsuccessful. He also tried myocplasma species testing back when he still had the haemobartonella or whatever that pathogen was.
It is my understanding that this time around he is going to try to culture babesia and then do a babesia species PCR test if anything grows out. He is also going to send the blood to another lab to have them do a DNA sequence for bacteria.
But it is my understanding that his own lab has tried to do DNA sequencing of the WBC pathogen on other patients and has been unsucessful -- they could not identify the pathogen.
If I knew of a lab who would be willing to try to identify hubby's pathogens then we would come up with the dollars from somewhere. Without knowing for sure what we are trying to treat it is really just an educated guessing game as to what meds or herbs will or will not work.
I really wish Clongen lab had a camera -- I know that would not prove what the bacteria or parasites were but a picture is worth a thousand words as the saying goes.
Bea Seibert
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Dave6002
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Bea Seibert,
I know the technique is out there for a while and I did a Google search for deep RNA sequencing:
Pathogen detection using short-RNA deep sequencing subtraction ... bioinformatics.oxfordjournals.org/content/27/15/2027.full
Deep sequencing and PCR are totally different concepts: PCR detects an individual sequence, deep sequencing can see all of the sequences in a sample; in your hubby's case, all RNA sequences present in his blood will be shown up and tell you who is who including known and unknown sequences.With that said you'll know for 100% sure what Babsia strain and/or Bart. strain, Bb strain ... etc your hubby has in his blood and even how active those pathogens are.
Now it's expensive, however you may be able to contact some research labs who may want to do research on such project and get it done for free.
I suggest the whole Lyme community should pursue this direction. I would like to try it soon or later.
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Dave6002
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Pathogen detection using short-RNA deep sequencing subtraction and assembly Ofer Isakov, Shira Modai and Noam Shomron*
Accepted June 2, 2011.
Abstract
Motivation: Early and accurate detection of human pathogen infection is critical for treatment and therapeutics.
Here we describe pathogen identification using short RNA subtraction and assembly (SRSA), a detection method that overcomes the requirement of prior knowledge and culturing of pathogens, by using degraded small RNA and deep sequencing technology.
We prove our approach's efficiency through identification of a combined viral and bacterial infection in human cells.
Thought it sounded too good to be true. The lab responded to my email. Unfortunately because the DNA is fragmented during the testing process they are not able to provide a list of all known pathogens. There would be some overlap between species etc.
Anyway, I wrote again asking if they could only look for babesia or bartonella or for multiple pathogens if they had a list to work from. Will see what response I get from that email.
Bea Seibert
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TerryK
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Dave, It would be nice if all these organisms only resided in the GI tract. Unfortunately borrelia resides in tissues all over the body as keebler said. Not just the GI track but heart, bladder, other organs, joints, muscles, brain etc. etc... Check out autopsy reports on-line for details of where it is found.
Buhner describes borrelia as swimming through our tissues and eating our collagen. Borrelia's tail is why it can do this as compared to other bacteria that do not have this ability.
Babesia resides in red blood cells. It does it's damage by destroying our red blood cells. Bartonella is intracellular as is babesia and borrelia. Bartonella does live in the gut but like the others, lives in many other places as well.
Terry I'm not a doctor
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glm1111
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Terry,
I agree that the borrelia as well as parasites(incl parasites that originated in the G.I. track) can invade and disseminate all the areas your describe.
Just thinking out loud here...My experience has been that by going after the G. I. parasites with antiparasitics and salt/c, it has eradicated the babs, bart, erlichlia etc. Dr. K. says in order to get rid of babs, you have to get rid of the G.I. parasites.
Maybe it's the salt/c that when ingested oraly, acts like a saline solution and goes to all the cells and tissues of the body.
Or, it's because the G.I. parasites are suppressing the immune system, and when eradicated, it frees the immune system to go after the other infections.
One scenario, is that the parasites are protecting the infections like bart that reside in the gut.
One fact is for sure....IT's A NIGHTMARE!!!
Gael
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Dave6002
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Bea Seibert,
quote:Unfortunately because the DNA is fragmented during the testing process they are not able to provide a list of all known pathogens. There would be some overlap between species etc.
I agree but this depends on how deep they go into. Deep sequencing theoretically has one base discrimination. With that said, even similar pathogens share similar sequences, the deep sequencing will reveal the individual strain.
For detecting pathogens by deep sequencing is still in the beginning,it's not surprised if they said so,but different lab may have different techniques and RNA deep sequencing may be better than DNA deep sequencing,see the following paper:
Pathogen detection using short-RNA deep sequencing subtraction ... bioinformatics.oxfordjournals.org/content/27/15/2027.full
Also, for exocellular pathogens, you may want to get rid of host cells first and only sequence pathogen DNA. For intracellualar pathogens, still there are methods to isolate pathogen DNAs that are usually smaller than the host genomic DNA... etc.These techniques are meant to reduce background.
If you believe the pathogens in your hubby's blood are responsible for his symptoms, the pathogen load must be high and there is no reason that the deep sequencing (either DNA or RNA deep sequencing) cannot reveal anything.
If the pathogens are under the detection ability of the deep sequencing, they may not be the main contributor to your hubby's symptoms.
Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006
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Dave6002
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9064
posted
Terry,
What you said are true from the studies. However, I suspect that the borrelia is the root of our problem.
Bb is sensitive to many abx we are using. With high dose and long term of such abx, I don't understand why they still are happily living in our bodies. The may go into dormancy, then the symptom should be disappeared or significantly reduced. but it's not the case for most of us lymies.
Bb may not be the causative for our problem.
Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
Great thread
I agree with different aspects of it.
I also might add something that hasn't been mentioned - heavy metals. They may be the MOST immune suppressing obstacle in front of us.
You combine borrelia, parasites, and heavy metals and its no wonder that opportunistic infections like Bartonella run rampant, become aggressive, and threaten our health the most.
I'd venture to say most people on this board are dealing immediately with Bartonella whether they know it or not.
I find Bart to be the dumbest, quickest reproducing, aggressive bacteria of all (sort of the 'Occupy Wall Street' of infections)
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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Cass A
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11134
posted
Dear Friends,
From my recent investigation of oral spirochetes and the brain/nervous system, it appears that Lyme bacteria may also reside and reproduce in the mouth. Videos of oral spirochetes in the presence of oral antibiotics show them fragmenting and some of them going into what we would probably call the "cyst" form, so they can come out again when the threat is gone.
Certainly, Lyme has been found in the brains of dead Altzheimer's patients.
Oral spirochetes (species not specified) are, apparently, routinely found in the brains and nervous systems of people with diabetes, heart disease, and ALS.
There are some recent threads on this topic.
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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Dave6002
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9064
posted
Gael,interesting thinking.
quote:Maybe it's the salt/c that when ingested oraly, acts like a saline solution and goes to all the cells and tissues of the body.
However, because the body can regulate the sodium concentration, ingestion of salt even long term can not increase the blood sodium concentration high enough to kill some thing.
On the other hand, salt/C goes through the GI,its concentration could be high enough to kill pathogens in the gut.
Just wondering, has anyone ingested some detergent?
Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006
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Dave6002
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9064
posted
Am J Infect Control. 2004 May;32(3):170-6. Removal of biofilm from endoscopes: evaluation of detergent efficiency. Vickery K, Pajkos A, Cossart Y. Source Department of Infectious Diseases, University of Sydney, Sydney, NSW 2006, Australia. Abstract BACKGROUND: Biofilm consisting of bacteria enclosed in a matrix of exopolysaccharide (EPS) forms on many medical devices such as catheters and implants. Nosocomial infection is, thus, a newly recognized scenario of biofilm development. Biofilm removal by physical methods such as ultrasound and mechanical cleaning is reasonably effective but difficult to supervise in practice. Chemical methods are often ineffective because of biofilm resistance to biocides. In this study, we compared the efficiency of different detergents used in endoscope reprocessing.
METHODS: Escherichia coli biofilm was generated on Teflon and medical grade PVC tubing under low flow conditions. Sections of biofilm covered tubing were washed using test detergents and biofilm removal was assessed by counting remaining adherent bacteria after washing and by scanning electron microscopy to qualitatively assess the amount and nature of the remaining biofilm.
RESULTS: Control tubing developed a multilayered biofilm consisting of >10(5) bacterial cells/cm(2). Only Matrix (Whiteley Medical, Sydney, Australia) produced >4 log reduction in viable bacterial numbers. Matrix and Epizyme Rapid (3M Australia, Pymble, Australia) were able to remove up to 75% and 60% of the biofilm, respectively.
CONCLUSIONS: Many commonly used enzymatic cleaners fail to reduce the viable bacterial load or remove the bacterial EPS. Cleaners with high enzyme activity, Epizyme Rapid, removed more biofilm but failed to reduce bacterial numbers more than 2 logs. The only cleaner containing no enzymes, Matrix, significantly reduced bacterial viability and residual bacterial EPS.
Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006
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Dave6002
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9064
posted
Found this:
Matrix Wipes - New Zealand Matrix Wipes biofilm removing detergent wipes for precleaning edoscopes and other medical devices. Matrix Wipes contain Matrix biofilm removing solution - a patented formulation of surfactants specifically designed for removing biological soils and biofilms.
Can we use this to clean the gut(destroy the biofilm) and remove gut parasites?
Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006
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Dave6002
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posted
quote:I'd venture to say most people on this board are dealing immediately with Bartonella whether they know it or not.
Interesting! my whole body pains may be caused by Bartonella in the gut secreting biotoxins?
Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006
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Dave6002
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posted
quote:From my recent investigation of oral spirochetes and the brain/nervous system, it appears that Lyme bacteria may also reside and reproduce in the mouth.
Interesting. Mouth is part of the GI system and probably the easiest part that its pathogens can be killed by Salt/C
Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006
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Dave6002
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Member # 9064
posted
Castor Oil Cleansing
Castor Oil Cleansing: Castor oil works like fiber in the food. Drinking castor oil early in the morning induces the gall bladder to pour the bile into the stomach. (Early morning bile flow is heavier than at any other time) and also the stomach and intestines are empty to be cleaned. When hot water is sipped it causes mucus to be secreted which forces movement of bile and castor oil mixture to move down to the intestine. Bile and oil forms detergent (SOAP). A cleaning detergent is basically oil that is bonded to salt. Here castor oil forms a chemical complex with bile salts and forms a cleansing detergent. Sipping water makes a typical "HOT WASH". This really cleans the stomach and intestines and also gets rid of the toxins that come through the bile. Thus this is a powerful way of detoxification. Thanks to Ayurvedic masters who have understood the detoxification process and the physiology of the body so perfectly.
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