posted
I feel like I should and my doc wants me to basically come up with a reason why....I'm really not sure what to say to him....are there any sites that state that lyme patients possible have this?
Posts: 287 | From somewhere | Registered: Oct 2011
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canefan17
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posted
Most chronic ill patients have detox pathway issues in liver. Just tell him you don't feel like you're detoxing adequately and that you often get liver pains despite "normal" enzyme levels (which mean nothing)
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sparkle7
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PROPOSED LINK BETWEEN LYME DISEASE AND CFS* Rich Van Konynenburg, Ph.D. Independent Researcher and Consultant
[LYMEINFO NOTE: Dr. Van Konynenburg is a proponent of the Glutathione Depletion--Methylation Cycle Block hypothesis for the pathogenesis of CFS. To read more about this theory and treatment, see the links to the left of this page.]
Review of the Glutathione Depletion-Methylation Cycle Block (GD-MCB) Hypothesis for CFS [1]
1. The person inherits a genetic predisposition (polymorphisms in several of certain genes) toward developing CFS. (This genetic factor is more important for the sporadic cases than for the cluster cases of CFS.)
2. The person then experiences some combination of a variety of possible stressors (physical, chemical, biological, psychological/emotional) that place demands on glutathione.
3. Glutathione levels drop, producing oxidative stress, removing protection from B12, allowing toxins to accumulate, and shifting the immune response to Th2.
4. Toxins react with B12, lowering the rate of formation of methylcobalamin. Lack of sufficient methylcobalamin inhibits methionine synthase, placing a partial block in the methylation cycle.
5. Sulfur metabolites drain through the transsulfuration pathway excessively, pass through sulfoxidation, and are excreted.
6. A vicious circle is established between the methylation cycle block and glutathione depletion, and the disorder becomes chronic.
Depletion of glutathione by Borrelia burgdorferi
1. Bb requires cysteine for its metabolism [2].
2. Cysteine diffuses passively into Bb from its host, i.e. there is no active transporter protein [2].
3. Bb uses cysteine in the synthesis of several of its essential enzymes: Osp A, Osp B, CoASH, a hemolysin, and others [2,3].
4. Bb does not use glutathione for its redox control. Instead, it uses reduced Coenzyme A (CoASH) [4].
5. Cysteine is the rate-limiting amino acid for the synthesis of glutathione in humans, so that depletion of cysteine will produce depletion of glutathione [5].
6. Bb lowers the cysteine and glutathione levels in its human host, and inhibits the activity of glutathione peroxidase [6].
7. Low glutathione and low activity of glutathione peroxidase allow a rise in hydrogen peroxide concentration and oxidative stress [7].
8. Elevation of hydrogen peroxide causes Bb to assume its cyst form [8], in which it is less vulnerable to antibiotics [9].
New hypothesis for a link between Lyme disease and chronic fatigue syndrome
1. Borrelia burgdorferi (Bb) deplete glutathione in the host.
2. For a person who is genetically susceptible to developing CFS, this provides a link to the GD-MCB hypothesis for CFS and is one of the possible routes into this disorder.
3. If Bb and its biotoxin were not eliminated, Lyme disease and CFS would coexist in the host, and this would constitute "chronic Lyme disease."
4. If Bb and its biotoxin [10] were eliminated, but the methylation cycle block continued, the person would continue to be ill with CFS. This would constitute "post-Lyme disease syndrome," which would be analogous to the other post-infective fatigue syndromes [11].
5. If Bb and its biotoxin were eliminated, and the methylation cycle block was lifted, I believe it is likely that the person would become well. In addition,
6. Perhaps the Borrelia burgdorferi toxin is one of the toxins that will react with vitamin B12. Mold toxins have been implicated in such reactions, but no data were cited [12,13].
References
1. Van Konynenburg, R.A., "Glutathione Depletion.Methylation Cycle Block, A Hypothesis for the Pathogenesis of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome," poster paper, 8th Intl. IACFS Conf. on CFS, Fibromyalgia, and Other Related Illnesses, Fort Lauderdale, FL, January 10-14, 2007 LINK. 2. Sambri, V., and Cevenini, R., Incorporation of cysteine by Borrelia burgdorferi and Borrelia hersii, Can. J. Microbiol. 38: 1016-1021 (1992). 3. Williams, L.R., and Austin, F.E., Hemolytic activity of Borrelia burgdorferi, Infection and Immunity 60(8): 3224-3230 (1992). 4. Boylan, J.A., Hummel, C.S., Benoit, S., Garcia-Lara, J., Treglown-Downey, J., Crane, E.J., III, and Gherardini, F.C., Borrelia burgdorferia bb0728 encodes a coenzyme A disulphide reductase whose function suggests a role in intracellular redox and the oxidative stress response, Molecular Microbiol. 59(2), 475-486 (2006). 5. Griffith, O.W., Biologic and pharmacologic regulation of mammalian glutathione synthesis, Free Radic Biol Med. 1999 Nov;27(9-10):922-35. 6. Pancewicz, S.A., Skrzydleweska, E., Hermanowska-Szpakowicz, T., Zajkowska, J., and Kondrusik, M., Role of reactive oxygen species (ROS) in patients with erythema migrans, an early manifestation of Lyme borreliosis, Med. Sci. Monit. 7(6), 1230-1235 7. Levine, S.A., and Kidd, P.M., Antioxidant Adaptation, Its Role in Free Radical Pathology, Allergy Research Group, San Leandro, CA (1985). 8. Murgia, R., and Cinco, M., Induction of cystic forms by different stress conditions in Borrelia burgdorferi, APMIS 112, 57-62 (2004). 9. Kersten, A., Poitschek, C., Rauch, S., and Aberer, E., Effects of penicillin, ceftriaxone and doxycycline on morphology of Borrelia burgdorferi, Antimicrob. Agents Chemother. 39(5), 1127-1133 (1995). 10. Shoemaker, R., Schaller, J., and Schmidt, P., Mold Warriors, Gateway Press, Baltimore (2005). 11. Hickie, I. Davenport, T., Wakefield, D, Vollmer-Conna, U., Cameron, B., Vernon, S.D., Reeves, W.C., Lloyd, A., Dubbo Infection Outcomes Study Group, Post-infective and chronic fatigue syndromes precipitated by viral and non-viral pathogens: prospective cohort study, BMJ. 2006 Sep 16;333(7568):575. Epub 2006 Sep 1. 12. Anyanwu, E.C., Morad, M., and Campbell, A.W., Metabolism of mycotoxins, intracellular functions of vitamin B12, and neurological manifestations in patients with chronic toxigenic mold exposures. A review, ScientificWorldJournal 4, 736-745 (2004). 13. Anyanwu, E.C., and Kanu, I., Biochemical impedance on intracellular functions of vitamin B12 in chronic toxigenic mold exposures, ScientificWorldJournal 7:1649-57 (2007). *The author has kindly given his permission to reprint this article at LymeInfo.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
How is everyone getting this testing covered by insurance?..was told only covered if there's a history of blood clots in the family...
Posts: 287 | From somewhere | Registered: Oct 2011
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tickled1
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14257
posted
I'd also like to know how others are getting this testing covered by insurance. One of my doctors said he'd run the test but wasn't sure what to put for a code to get it covered. Thanks.
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
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nefferdun
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20157
posted
Sparkler, how did you find that! I printed it out to take to the new LLMD I am seeing. I have already been tested but I want him to understand how important this is.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
serum iron was on the high side and Vit B12 low so I was suspicious of something else, ordered MTHFR, folic acid & ferritin, presto, got all the answers I needed!
Posts: 532 | From Texas | Registered: Oct 2004
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Razzle
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 30398
posted
Long story. Got diagnosed with Sulfite Sensitivity and started researching to learn more about it.
Discovered certain enzymes needed to be functioning correctly in order for the body to process sulfites, which lead me to methylation research.
So I decided I needed to get tested to see what all about my methylation cycle was messed up. MTHFR was only part of what was tested.
My doctor also did the Phase 1 & 2 detox test (detoxigenomics tests, from Genova Diagnostics) and I have some additional detox challenges based on those results.
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
How does one get diagnosed with Sulfite Sensitivity Razzle? Any formal way? I have been wondering if I may have an issue with this.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
yes what is the sulfite test?
Posts: 871 | From orange county, ca. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Razzle
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 30398
posted
Doctors will say there is no specific test for sulfite sensitivity officially, though some allergists can give you increasing amounts of sulfites in capsules in an oral challenge.
My Allergist said Sulfites and pollen-food cross-reactivity when I gave him my list of foods with which I had trouble.
The methylation genomic tests will tell you if your body has blocks in the methylation cycle. Some of the gene variants can increase the difficulty one has with sulfites.
Specific genes I know for sure can cause sulfite issues are CBS (Cystathione Beta Synthase) and SUOX (Sulfite Oxidase). But Yasko's test does not test for all the SUOX variants, only the "most common." And her test also does not look at Molybdenum Cofactor (another enzyme needed for sulfite processing).
Also, you can get sulfite test strips online (I haven't tried this) and test a fresh urine sample (i.e., test immediately upon collecting the sample - sulfites break down to sulfates very quickly). A person who has problems with sulfites will spill excess sulfites into the urine. But one must be consuming a lot of sulfites for the test to be accurate.
A food-symptom diary may reveal patterns that suggest difficulty with sulfites.
The foods highest in sulfites include:
Wine Vinegar & other fermented foods Tortillas Dried fruit Instant potatoes Anything with some kind of sulfite or sulfur dioxide listed on the label.
Difficulty tolerating car exhaust also may point to sulfite issues (though there are other reasons a person may have trouble with car exhaust).
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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tickled1
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posted
Razzle,
So did you have the Yasko test or a different test for methylation?
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
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Razzle
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 30398
posted
I had the Yasko methylation test panel, and also the Detoxigenomic test from Genova Diagnostics.
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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