posted
In recent posts regarding yeast and detoxing there appears to be a lot of overlap between Lyme sx and other toxins. How do you know that you have Lyme? Especially of this is a clinical diagnosis of Lyme? How do you know what takes priority in treatment?
The symptoms overlap and the treatments create more and worse symptoms. How do we ever know what we have and what is working?
I don't have joint pain but the facial numbness is the only thing that is Lyme specific. Any input?
-------------------- Tick bite in 2006, bullseye rash, treated with 2 rounds of 2 weeks of doxy. (once in 2006, once in 2009) Dx with chronic Lyme May 2011. LLMD April 2012, Treating with omnicef/zith Lots of supplements! Posts: 640 | From Connecticut | Registered: Apr 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- The very best article I've ever seen that details lyme. This is an eye-opener for sure:
(What ILADS is) . . . WHY you need an ILADS-educated, Lyme Literate Doctor -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
I agree, the Bleiweiss article is very good because it elaborates on the various lyme symptoms.
Regarding lyme treatment, it doesn't create more and worse symptoms. It gets rid of symptoms. However, you can have periods of herxing, but that is pretty obvious and predictable. It occurs 2-3 days after starting a new med.
The only thing lyme treatment can cause is yeast. You can easily see when you get yeast and take care of it.
People who already have yeast before even getting on good lyme treatment have to wonder why. To me, it means something in the body isn't right--like lyme has already compromised your immune system. When you get to your new lyme doc, you can ask if that is a common thing for people with lyme to have prior to even starting good lyme treatment. A normal person should not have yeast.
Other than that, if you are talking about side effects of meds, those can happen no matter what illness a person has when antibiotics are prescribed.
However, if you have become a person who reacts to everything, that is another sign that there is something terribly wrong--immune system on high alert, treating everything as an allergen, etc. These things are not normal and indicate illness in and of themselves.
The symptoms of lyme, coinfections, and yeast overlap. So, if you are really concerned that you may not have lyme, you are one of the people who want a lyme test--either through Igenex or the new culture test. You also want Igenex coinfection tests.
If any of these are positive, that is your answer. You aren't going to have babs and not lyme, or bart and not lyme, etc. They all travel together.
Why don't you search for other diseases that can cause your mental problems and the other symptoms you have. There are just a handful of diseases that could cause all of your problems.
I just have to tell you that anyone that got a tick bite with bulls eye in 2006 and had just 2 weeks of doxy as treatment and ever since then has had episodes of symptoms of lyme, that person has lyme. It's a no brainer.
"GENERAL PRINCIPLES In general, you can think of LB as having three categories: acute, early disseminated, and chronic. The sooner treatment is begun after the start of the infection, the higher the success rate. However, since it is easiest to cure early disease, this category of LB must be taken VERY seriously. Undertreated infections will inevitably resurface, usually as chronic Lyme, with its tremendous problems of morbidity and difficulty with diagnosis and treatment and high cost in every sense of the word." (page 3, Burrascano Guidelines)
Something about that just doesn't settle it for you. But, it is settled for any good lyme doctor. You never got rid of this disease. That is apparent.
Anyone with lyme for years is going to accumulate more and more diseases because their immune system is compromised. So, the chronic lyme patient often has a "soup" of infections as they call it. Lyme, yeast, coinfections, viruses, you name it. That is in all likelihood what you have. You have had lyme for 6 years.
Then, on top of that, if you can't detoxify, every treatment will make you sick. Your body needs to reduce its toxic load, not add to it. It can't handle anymore.
This is what makes treating a lyme disease patient so very complex.
The lyme symptoms that are pretty much unique to lyme are the mental symptoms (loss of memory, difficulty concentrating, word finding problems, etc.), the waxing and waning (28 day cycle) of symptoms, the migrating pains (first it is here, then it is there, etc.) and the various neuropathies (false sensations--stabbing pains, pins and needles, tingling, numbness, etc.) stiff neck, and most of all the multi-system aspect of the illness. Bells palsy is also so characteristic of lyme disease that in Maryland anyone presenting with it must be tested for lyme disease--state law.
Very, very few illnesses can attack more than one bodily system (for example, eyes, and gastrointestinal, and nervous system, and brain, and hearing, and muscles, and gynecological, and joints, and skin, etc.)
Look at the list of symptoms on pages 9-10. Pick out the ones that are not common at all. See how many of those you have. See if you have more than one system involved. See if you have a history of tick bite and history of bulls eye rash. Give yourself the points Burrascano says to assign to each of these things. See how high a score you have. Go through the process Burrascano tells a doctor to go through and see the conclusion.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Keebler. Good links. I think a lot of this confusion will be explained with a visit to a good llmd. Seems like I was assuming an llmd would know Lyme. But it seems like an llmd also knows how to tease out related disorders coinfections and when it is not Lyme
TF. How frustrating I must be for you! It is not that I don't believe I have Lyme. I do think I have Lyme especially because I tested CDC positive two years afterwards (it was 2008...I need to correct that in my signature) and I was immune compromised that entire time in between and afterwards)
. I do believe I have Lyme but I also believe I have yeast issues. I am just trying to figure out which is which. I guess I am afraid another dr will not think I have Lyme. I have been treating yeast issues for a few months with mixed observable results I started candida cleanse as opposed to diflucan some will see.
It's confusing on a Lyme brain. Less than two weeks to some solid answers
-------------------- Tick bite in 2006, bullseye rash, treated with 2 rounds of 2 weeks of doxy. (once in 2006, once in 2009) Dx with chronic Lyme May 2011. LLMD April 2012, Treating with omnicef/zith Lots of supplements! Posts: 640 | From Connecticut | Registered: Apr 2011
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
A lyme doctor needs to know how to test for and treat everything you read about in Burrascano--yeast, adrenal issues, inability to detox issues, lyme, coinfections (including mycoplasma), heavy metal toxicity, nutritional deficiencies, etc.
You will see all of your problems in Burrascano's Guidelines. These are all the things that will be addressed by a good lyme doctor.
"WHAT IS LYME DISEASE?
I take a broad view of what Lyme Disease actually is. Traditionally, Lyme is defined an infectious illness caused by the spirochete, Borrelia burgdorferi (Bb). While this is certainly technically correct, clinically the illness often is much more than that, especially in the disseminated and chronic forms.
Instead, I think of Lyme as the illness that results from the bite of an infected tick. This includes infection not only with B. burgdorferi, but the many co-infections that may also result. Furthermore, in the chronic form of Lyme, other factors can take on an ever more significant role- immune dysfunction, opportunistic infections, coinfections, biological toxins, metabolic and hormonal imbalances, deconditioning, etc." (page 3 of Burrascano)
Yes, you are afraid another doctor will not think you have lyme. That is natural after what we go through prior to getting to a lyme doctor.
So, that is probably really why you want to know what the lyme specific symptoms are. Talk about your brain to the lyme doctor and it will be case closed.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
of the multitude of symptoms i have experienced and experience (many of which i thought or was convinced were quirks or psychological problems), the only one that i believe to be unique to lyme is a sudden and severe intolerance to even the smallest amount of alcohol where alcohol was generally well-tolerated in the past. anyone have thoughts on or experience with this?
Posts: 43 | From new jersey | Registered: Jul 2010
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timaca
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6911
posted
Facial numbness is not only a lyme symptom. Viruses can do that too. A bulls eye rash is the only symptom that is diagnostic for Lyme disease. Other pathogens can present with all the other lyme symptoms (at least that is my understanding).
Best, Timaca
Posts: 2872 | From above 7,000 ft in a pine forest | Registered: Feb 2005
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MichaelTampa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 24868
posted
migrating joint pain
Posts: 1927 | From se usa | Registered: Mar 2010
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