tickled1
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14257
posted
My daughter got a tick bite this morning. It couldn't have been attached for more than an hour. It was attached but not at all imbedded. I pulled it right off with tweezers and put alcohol on it.
I know it was not attached for more than an hour b/c I know exactly where/when she was in a grassy/shady area this morning and less than 2 hrs. later I checked her head to toe.
I'm thinking she doesn't need preventative abx but what do you guys think? I'd hate to create yeast if abx aren't necessary.
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Attachment for ANY time can transmit infection, even just a minute.
I'm sorry she got bitten and sorry for the dilemma. I'm not sure what I would do in your situation.
But, really, the instant a tick bites, whatever has been in that mouth is now in the bite site.
Now, that tick may not have been carrying lyme but the probably warrants action. As well, other infections may be on board.
That day, lyme can reach the person's nervous system.
Borrelia don't necessary stay in the tick stomach sequestered from its mouth. That is a myth. IMO.
If your daughter could tolerate allicin capsules, I would load up on those. But the two best brands are via the web.
You may be able to find a good brand at a natural foods store today and then order one of these:
BIOPURE FREEZE DRIED GARLIC
HEPAPRO ALLICIN
ALLIMAX
Olive Leaf Extract is another choice, but, Seagate is best capsule. For tincture, Herb Pharm but the alcohol content may be too much for child, even if swirled about in a deep mug and warm water for a while. (Not hot, only warm.)
Colloidal Silver may also be be a consideration.
But, yes, IMO, she should be treated - somehow. I would go with both Allicin and Olive Leaf Extract. But I am not a medical person, at all. No training.
You might start on some serous herbs today and then contact your LLMD or a LL ND tomorrow.
Have her eat a clove of RAW garlic ? I don't know if that would be enough but is sure could not hurt and could help a lot (as long as she tolerates garlics). I would put it in the middle of a meal, though, so it would not burn.
Hopefully, her immune system can handle any possible infections but I would not take that chance. Lyme can disable even the best.
I'd be doing that raw garlic clove right now - unless you have some strong herbs around and don't have to go out to buy them now.
You might just call the Urgent Care near you and inquire as to if they would offer any treatment for a bite.
Of course, if doxycycline, that can make lyme turn to cyst form in just 20 minutes. So, doxy, alone, could do harm down the road and would not address possible babesia.
If doxy, be sure she avoids the sun, too.
Hope this works out well. Sigh. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Clinical evidence for rapid transmission of Lyme disease following a tickbite
Source: Diagnostic Microbiology and Infectious disease, Nov 20, 2011
ProHealth.com
by Eleanor D Hynote, et al.
December 29, 2011
Lyme disease transmission to humans by Ixodes ticks is thought to require at least 36-48 hours of tick attachment.
We describe 3 cases in which transmission of Borrelia burgdorferi, the spirochetal agent of Lyme disease, appears to have occurred in less than 24 hours based on the degree of tick engorgement, clinical signs of acute infection, and immunologic evidence of acute Lyme disease.
Health care providers and individuals exposed to ticks should be aware that transmission of Lyme disease may occur more rapidly than animal models suggest.
A diagnosis of Lyme disease should not be ruled out based on a short tick attachment time in a subject with clinical evidence of B. burgdorferi infection.
Source: Diagnostic Microbiology and Infectious Disease, Nov 20, 2011.
PMID:22104184, by Hynote ED, Mervine PC, Stricker RB.
International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society, Bethesda, Maryland, USA. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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tickled1
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14257
posted
My daughter is 6. There's no way she's going to eat a clove of raw garlic.
The grass she went into was in a shady area. In my experience, if grass is short and in a sunny dry area I haven't seen ticks. I had a bad feeling about her going where she did and I was right.
I won't keep her out of the grass in our yard which is sunny and the grass is very short. We have cut a lot of trees to make sure our yard is sunny and dry to keeps ticks at a minimum. This did not occur in our yard.
There is zero chance of me getting her on anything tonight. I already know what her pediatrician will say.
Won't be able to get any help till tomorrow. Happy Mother's Day to me.
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
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Lymedin2010
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
Tickled1, Forget about short grass and sunny days. �Ticks can be anywhere. �I have seen this for myself on sunny days and short grass. �This too from people that I warn right in front of me, but they don't listen. �
They come back to me stunned, since they thought they were being vigilant (socks tucked in and tick checks). �My niece just got bit with tick spray on her in a soccer field. �Short grass and VERY long baseball and soccer joined fields, and no shade whatsoever.
My daughter had a tick crawling on her within 10-12 seconds. �This is with me telling her no grass and at the early stages of me fighting for the no grass rule. �This was in a SUPER LOW GRASS front yard. �The head of household does not like to mow the lawn often and cuts it down really short.
Two weeks ago my sons friend reported 2 more ticks on his hair/head, after playing around in the neighborhood. �His parents had sprayed all their grass and even the sides of their house. �Most people here spray their grass. �This kid had ticks removed from him in the past and his mother is taking him to a specialist for ADD.
People have reported seeing ticks on cement, concrete, stone, on trees, and the sides of their houses. �One person who lives in a city, where there is very little grass (barely any) had a tick on them after walking his dog.
As was mentioned, ticks only need to start biting for you to get the cocktail from hell.
People just dont seem to get it and personally I don't beat around the bush with such a serious issue. �They need to be slapped around, and at the risk of sounding blunt, woken the F up. �Rules for my wife and kids are NO GRASS!
Try freeze dried garlic (tolerable for a kid) and GSE. �Banderol and Samento are reported to be better than Doxy from in vitro studies. �Maybe Artimisenin, Sida Acuta, and Cryptolepis. � Nice to have all of them at once, but at the end it is anyone's guess. �Not much, if any, in vivo studies. �Those are the naturals that are most reported to help in general.
Use Himalayan salt on her foods and try to up her salt. �Salty pretzels comes to mind. �Maybe buy them unsalted and wet them on one side, then dip in crushed/granulated Himalayan salt. �Add vitamin C to the salt for a combo.
Research parasite treatment for kids. �Best to treat now in case any symptoms flare up in the future. �It is easier to deal with Lyme when no parasites are involved. �Keep parasite treatment in mind throughout her teenage years.
ABX wise I would get her on Amoxicillin and Zithromax liquid combo if there is the option.
Posts: 2087 | From NY | Registered: Oct 2011
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Ellen101
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posted
You could try bringing her to a "minute clinic". I was in there recently and we were discussing lyme and the NP said people come there after being bit and depending on the circumstances and which NP you get they would usually treat.
Now it depends probably on the area you live in, the type of tick etc. I went through this recently with my 11 yr old. The ped agreed to give him a dose of doxy, but that was it. At first I was angry and we argued back and forth on this and in the end I had to admit she had some valid points.
I will not restrict my kids from playing sports, being on grass etc. They are children and have to be able to play.
Posts: 1748 | From United States | Registered: Dec 2011
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tickled1
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posted
I'm with you Ellen. I will not restrict my kid from being a kid.
Sure, anything's possible as far as all that was mentioned above on when/where you can pick up ticks. But, Lyme and all that comes with it is not the only bad thing that happens to people. Restricting her from being a kid could be awfully harmful to her as well.
I know first hand how awful Lyme is, trust me. I have been near death myself. I will not take away my daughter's childhood though.
Should I not send her to school b/c some crazed lunatic could target her school? Should I not let her ride the bus to school b/c there could be an accident? Should I not let her have that piece of birthday cake b/c she may have yeast or be allergic to artificial dye? Should I cut her gorgeous long blonde hair off so it would be easier to spot ticks? I think you get the picture.
Yes, I will live with whatever decision I make. I have contacted 3 doctors and am in the process of deciding what to do.
BTW, I have taken freeze dried garlic myself and to expect her to take it is wishful thinking. She can't swallow a capsule that big. Same thing with all the other recommendations. Thank you for them though. I do appreciate them, honestly. The only option would be abx and I'm consulting with doctors about it.
Thanks everyone.
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tickled1
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....still just a bit riled up. My daughter has recess at school in a grassy sunny area. So I should tell her and her teachers she can't participate in recess?
And, I shouldn't have let her go to the birthday party in the park that the rest of her friends went to?
And, I shouldn't have set up her pool this year b/c she has to walk accross a patch of grass to get to it?
She surely would grow up to be a happy, healthy, mentally intact person if I restricted all these activities and then some. Who needs friends, sunshine and a normal childhood anyway?
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Ellen101
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posted
I agree with you 100% tickled. Kids have got to be kids, plain and simple. There are alot of horrible things that can happen and lyme disease is just one of them. To live in fear does not do anyone any good. Do I spray my lawn yes, do I treat my animals for ticks? Yes, Do I check my kids for ticks? Yes, but at 19, 15, and 11, not as easy as it used to be. But when I read comments about keeping them off of grass, not letting them play outside etc, I'm frankly baffled.
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tickled1
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posted
AMEN!!!
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
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tickled1
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posted
So I have heard back from all 3 doctors and all 3 say not to treat including my current LLMD that is very highly regarded.
First doctor was her pediatrician. Second doctor was my former LLMD that is not ILADS. Third was my current LLMD that is very cutting edge and up to date (and ILADS).
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Ellen101
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posted
With all 3 docs giving the same opinion you shoulkd feel very confident in the decision. Glad they got back tou you.
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Lymedin2010
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posted
Didn't mean to rile up, but perhaps I did. �Like I said sometimes people need a little wake up.
If any of what you have aforementioned happened to 16 people in 6 adjacent houses, I bet you would think differently. �I live in a SUPER infested area. �I continue to do my research and discover that it's not just limited to this development or town.
In an ironic twist of fait the doctor who first saw me when I got sick now has joint pain, burning of the feet, and disorientation. �The doctor that he saw for this would not prescribe due to a negative test. �
This morning my wife reports that the caretaker, in the hospital she works at, had a tick crawling on him after doing some work outside this past Sat. �One of the nurses luckily spotted it before it bit him.
My kids have a wonderful childhood despite no grass, they play on cement and there is plenty of it. �Pool activities are on cement or decks or indoors. �Fishing with my family, which is my passion, on cement, decks, and on boats.
Again sorry for your reaction, I only try to help people see the true epidemic. �The results are GROSSLY under reported. �To each his own and I understand your decision respectfully. �
GOD bless.
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tickled1
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Lymedin2010, I know your kids have active outdoor lives. You and I have "talked" before and I was relieved to learn that they do have outdoor activities. It is clear that your area is infested with ticks so I understand your situation.
Someone else said to keep her inside. Also some of the recommendations for preventive treatment were unrealistic for a 6 yr. old. My plan is to remain vigilant in checking her several times a day.
Thank you for you well wishes and I mean that. I wish you and your family the best as well.
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tickled1
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I just want to say that I know everyone who responded to my post did so with good intentions and I sincerely thank you and appreciate your replies.
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tickled1
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I just want to say that I know everyone who responded to my post did so with good intentions and I sincerely thank you and appreciate your replies.
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Glad you got some good advice...my son (21 months) had a tick attached to his armpit on Sunday...I don't know how long it was there...it was not engorged, and came off pretty easily, there was just a small red dot left...On-call nurse told us that he would be fine with just Neosporin (I off course didn't agree)...brought him to his ped dr. yesterday and told them we didn't know how long the tick was there (it couldn't have been more than 24 hours), and they gave him 10 days of Amoxocillin.
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