posted
This past Friday made four weeks of my being on Zithromax 250 twice a day and Rifampin 150 twice a day. Prior to that I was on Zithromax 250 once a day only, for five weeks.
Ok. Since starting the zith and rif twice a day I have felt symptoms that would come and go and usually last a few hours.
But since this past Thursday I have been feeling a lot worse, sick actually. My symptoms are sore throat, nasal drip and congestion, inner vibrations, very tired, heavy arms and legs, increased anxiety, very irritable and easily angered, writs, elbows and knees hurt, and just a general vague sense of not feeling good. Also at night I noticed that there is a vague yet deep pain in the bones of my legs and under my feet. This all from Thursday to now - four days.
Last night however, I got a headache which is very unusual for me and it subsided earlier today after I took an Alka Seltzer, because I had nausea too. But now the headache is back.
This past Friday makes exactly four weeks since I started the antibiotic combo. Is this a major herx and everything else before that came and went minor herxes or what is this?
Is it common to get headaches with herxing even though it isn't one of your regular lyme symptoms?
Thank you for you input.
Posts: 138 | From US Virgin Islands | Registered: May 2012
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Ellen101
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 35432
posted
Rifampin can be very hard to tolerate. It is Also difficult sometimes to figure out what is a herx and what is a side effect. I had a really tough time on rifampin with extreme depression and irritability as well as an increase in pain. I was told by one doctor it was a hers and by another it was a side effect. In the end I knew it was just too much for me so I stopped it.
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
Since you got this sickness after 4 weeks, it sounds like the 28 day lyme cycle to me. Headaches are common with the 28 day flare.
The fact that the Alka Seltzer helped it also indicates a flare/herx. Here is what Dr. H. said in 2010 lyme conference for these herxs:
"For Herxheimer reactions: 2 Alka-Selzer Gold (no aluminum) in 8 ounces of water with lemon or lime followed by 6-8 capsules of glutathione or 1500 mg of oral liposomal glutathione. 70% will feel better in hours"
You can do the Alka Seltzer a number of times per day on these terrible days. Drink lots and lots of water. This is what else Dr. H. said right after the above:
"On the topic of water: Dilution is the solution to pollution. This suggests that in order to help our bodies detoxify, we must drink more water"
So, keep track of this episode on your calendar. Count forward 28 days from the start of this episode and mark it. Then, see if you flare on those days (or thereabouts) also. This is how you will know what you are dealing with.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Excuse my ignorance on the subject but is a flare the same as herx?
Posts: 138 | From US Virgin Islands | Registered: May 2012
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
Well, the sick days every 28 days are generally called "flares." That's what my lyme doc called them, and that's what Burrascano calls them.
Then, Burrascano speculates that these flares could be herxheimer-like reactions.
Definitely, when you get sick 2-3 days after starting meds, these are called herxheimer reactions.
So, it seems that doctors are not really sure that the 28 day cycles are herxes, so they call them flares.
I also had 7-day cycles with babs. My lyme doc called these flares also. I got very sick every 7 days. Lasted 48 hours each time.
Here's a quote for you:
"Several days after the onset of appropriate antibiotic therapy, symptoms often flare due to lysis of the spirochetes with release of increased amount of antigenic material and possibly bacterial toxins. This is referred to as a Jarisch Herxheimer-like reaction. Because it takes 48 to 72 hours of therapy to initiate bacterial killing, the Herxheimer reaction is therefore delayed. This is unlike syphilis, in which these reactions can occur within hours.
It has been observed that symptoms will flare in cycles every four weeks. It is thought that this reflects the organism�s cell cycle, with the growth phase occurring once per month (intermittent growth is common in Borrelia species). As antibiotics will only kill bacteria during their growth phase, therapy is designed to bracket at least one whole generation cycle. This is why the minimum treatment duration should be at least four weeks.
If the antibiotics are working, over time these flares will lessen in severity and duration. The very occurrence of ongoing monthly cycles indicates that living organisms are still present and that antibiotics should be continued.
With treatment, these monthly symptom flares are exaggerated and presumably represent recurrent Herxheimer-like reactions as Bb enters its vulnerable growth phase and then are lysed. For unknown reasons, the worst occurs at the fourth week of treatment." (page 17 of Burrascano)
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
TF thank you. I can always count on you for valuable information on the subject. You are most appreciated.
I am getting worried because since Saturday I have been having headache and spiky type pain in my head on and off. My head feels full and my the bone in my face aches as does my eyes and when I move my eyes I get a slight disbalance feeling even though I myself am not moving. What is this? Can anyone relate? Is this part of the herx? From Saturday to now should I be worried. I guess I am scared too because I also have a cyst in my pineal gland and an arachnoid cyst in my pituatary. The neurologist and radiologist said those are incidental findings and nothing to worry about, but my mind is thinking the worst. Is this just a herx?
Posts: 138 | From US Virgin Islands | Registered: May 2012
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Keebler
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LIVER & KIDNEY SUPPORT & and several HERXHEIMER support links, too. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
The monthly flare can easily last a week.
They find cysts on many people when they are testing us for other things. I found out I have 2 on my liver when they were x-raying my back. So, forget these cysts as you were told to do.
If your anxiety is too bad, you actually need treated for it. It is one of the most horrible lyme symptoms there is.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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