posted
A friend of a friend wrote to me on Facebook and said they were just away and they all got covered in mosquito bites but just noticed this weird bite and mark on her 2 1/2 year old daughter. She was wondering if its a tick bite. I think it looks like a bullseye rash but thought I would ask you guys to see what you think .
I told her to take her to the ER right away and tell them it was a tick bite and demand meds even if its preventative but drs here are VERY reluctant and very uneducated when it comes to Lyme .
What do you guys think? And what would you do ?
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Sammi
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posted
This looks like a classic bulls-eye! Thank goodness the child got a rash and the mom saw it. It is also good she took a photo. Tell here to take more photos if the rash changes.
posted
So she went to the ER and the dr said to come back in 48 hours because the rash "isn't big enough for their criteria" . Can you believe that ? The rash is about the size of a quarter . There is no size stipulation when it comes to a bullseye rash is there ?
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Sammi
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Holy cow, there is no size stipulation! How could a doctor be so illogical? Look at the photos on the links posted, there are all sizes of rashes. Have the mom print out these photos and bring them with her.
Her daughter needs treatment ASAP. Where is she located?
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GretaM
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posted
Totally an EM, IMO.
My EM never got bigger than 4-5 inches in diameter.
Can your friend see another doc for a second opinion? Does the child have a fever?
48 hours is a long time when the rash is so clearly a bulls eye.
Is it possible to go to Buhners site and check out the dosages for herbs for kids for initial tick bites? Healing Lyme, I think it is called
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posted
Just an update- She now has a second circular rash on her arm
She also received 5 days worth of azithromycin from the dr at the Clinic. Its not nearly enough but its a start at least.
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Sammi
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posted
Where is she located? Maybe we can recommend a doctor.
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steve1906
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posted
Agreed, we all know that's a bullseye rash, and she has Lyme Disease.
She needs more meds ASAP. I would turn that doctor into the medical board - now - There is only one thing that causes the bulls eye - TICK=LYME...
I hope this little girl (two & half) gets the hope she needs!!!
Make SURE they save those photos.
That doctor needs to loss his lic. this is bullXXXX....
-------------------- Everything I say is just my opinion! Posts: 3529 | From Massachusetts Boston Area | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
She is located in Ontario Canada . We have no LLMDs in this area. I go to NY and my son goes to CT.
She's so new to Lyme and I'm not sure what she would say if I told her to go to the USA for treatment .
Right now she's holding out hope that the ID specialist will do something but I just to how they are and Lyme .
He will probably say she doesn't even have it or that 5 days of meds is enough. It makes me so mad.
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posted
The little girl doesn't have any other symptoms . Well her mom said she's tired but is chalking it up to them just coming home from a big trip. I'm nervous because she now has another circular rash so it's obviously spreading.
I'm trying to remain calm but I just want to scream Take her to the USA to see a real doctor! It brings tears to my eyes because. It's so frustrating knowing drs around here know nothing and its really hard explaining to people why the doctors are wrong and explaining the whole Lyme controversy
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posted
Lymetoo- do you think this little girl will be ok if she only manages to get the five days of azithromycin?
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steve1906
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posted
No one can ans. that question. History has proven that she'll probably get sick in time.
-------------------- Everything I say is just my opinion! Posts: 3529 | From Massachusetts Boston Area | Registered: Jul 2008
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Sammi
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posted
In my opinion, not likely. From what I understand, the bacteria reproduce approximately every three to four weeks. Five days of treatment will not cover even one growth cycle.
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posted
she said she's going to take get to the children's hospital here and try her luck. I hope she can get more meds .
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Sammi
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posted
I hope so too especially since she has another bulls-eye.
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TF
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posted
Doctors who do not specialize in lyme disease require the bulls eye rash to be at least 3 inches in diameter. That is what I was told by an infectious diseases doctor when I was seeking a diagnosis.
My rashes (13 of them) were no bigger than nickels. I couldn't get treatment from an ID doc based on that.
So, forget going after the ER doctor for his response. That is the typical response medical people are trained to give. Don't fight the world, just get help for the child.
From page 7 of Burrascano Guidelines:
"ERYTHEMA MIGRANS
Erythema migrans (EM) is diagnostic of Bb infection, but is present in fewer than half. Even if present, it may go unnoticed by the patient. It is an erythematous, centrifugally expanding lesion that is raised and may be warm. Rarely there is mild stinging or pruritus. The EM rash will begin four days to several weeks after the bite, and may be associated with constitutional symptoms. Multiple lesions are present less than 10% of the time, but do represent disseminated disease."
steve1906
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posted
TF, I have never heard of this (at least 3 inches in diameter for diagnosis).
Do you or anyone have data on this?
-------------------- Everything I say is just my opinion! Posts: 3529 | From Massachusetts Boston Area | Registered: Jul 2008
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TF
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Member # 14183
posted
steve, I think you are misunderstanding my post.
I am saying that when you are with a doctor who doesn't know anything about lyme disease (such as in the ER, or an ID doc, etc.), they are going to dismiss any rash that is less than 3 inches in diameter from being lyme.
They are WRONG to do this. I was dismissed from having lyme with a positive lyme test because I told the ID doc that I had 13 rashes show up on my legs, all about the size of a nickel.
She said, "the rash has to be BIG! At least 3 inches."
I had undiagnosed lyme disease for at least 10 years before a doc was smart enough to test me for lyme. Then, the ID doc tried to undiagnose me because my rashes weren't big enough!
That is the typical crap people face when they try to get help for this disease. It is part of the misinformation that doctors are being fed in their medical education, likely thanks to the IDSA, I would guess.
I don't know if there is any data on the size of a lyme rash.
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surprise
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posted
Just opened this thread, I've never seen an EM rash in my life,
but could you tell her to go to the ER and LIE? She could say: We were at so and so, I pulled a tick off I had no idea it was there,
she's been running a fever. And bring guidelines that show she needs Amoxicillin (because of her age) for at least 6 weeks, treatment dose. Also have her keep those pictures.
Tell her about probiotics.
I would. I would lie.
P.S. I would lie not because I am a liar, I am not. But there is no other way she has a chance of getting them, getting it caught right away.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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oxygenbabe
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posted
That is a classic bullseye and now it's either disseminated or she got more than one tickbite.
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Indeed. No doubt about this. Sadly, but hope she gets to a good LL doctor soon.
WHY you need an ILADS "educated" or "minded" Lyme Literate doctor (whether MD or ND, or both) - starting with assessment / evaluation.
Medical "models" explained here, as to differences in the ISDA & ILADS models of assessment & treatment - and exactly why it is so very important to know the differences. -
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