Topic: Lyme Disease and our livers...how does it affect?
Silverwolf
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9196
posted
Hi <<<<< LymeNet Family,and Researchers >>>>>.
I'm going to figure,since Lyme Disease and Co's affect so many of us so severely that it can negatively affect the Liver...??!?
Mine is acting up, Blood tests, various stuff they measure is running high for liver. Doc' [not LLMD] says fatty liver due to Diabetes.
I suspicion that a prescription is causing issues, temporarily stopping it, and less problems already, in three days [ I have other things I am taking as replacement].
With LL, Bart',and Babs', wondering what all this is doing to my liver?
Any tho'ts on what Lyme and co's can do to our liver function?
I'll be back later,hopefully tomorrow. Thanks for tho'ts,info' ideas.
Jus' Silverwolfi here
-------------------- 2006,May-August2006 Dx w/ Lyme/Bartonella/White Matter Lesion Disease on Brain. [ Clinical Dx w/ two positives and several IND's on the tests from Igenex ], Prior Dx of CFIDS/CEBV 1992, and FMS '93-'94 Diabetes*2 Dx 10/'08 Posts: 3581 | From SE Idaho | Registered: May 2006
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Silverwolf
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9196
posted
Hi <<<<< Lymetoo >>>>>,
Thanks for the info' link, I've been trying to learn more about the liver issues!
As to prescriptions, I take Lisinopril, and i was taking Metformin [I have never liked Metformin, it is proven to cause diarrhea in some, me for one]. I don't think it is helping things work right.
I have a recent Bentyl prescription now, but it can be very addictive, it can help w/ pain and 'IBS'/IC type issues. But I don't take it very often, I feel that Berberine/GlycoX supplement works better.
Have to go low dose,even on the GlycoX tho', everything seems to affect me oddly.I suspicion some methylation detox issues.
I tend to run in the... 'if 20% of the population have a reaction to something,and have to stop using it,and *20% of those who must not take/use a product/medicine have a dangerous reaction...'
I'd be in the second *20% where it is a dangerous reaction. That's probably not the proper way to type it...but I hope it makes sense.
I'm trying to puzzle out what foods TxC' and I can both eat.He's at a Nutrition class thru VA for diabetics right now, learning about lower carb diet.
Since the 'flu mess that hit me mid Feb. and seems almost gone finally, I can't eat eggs.
I also think some of the respiratory/sinus meds didn't help my liver any. I usually go very very low dose, had to take more than my usual,tho' still w/in the guidelines.
I do not use steroids,at all, if it were a sheer emergency then...? Maybe,but my er...uhm personality changes on them. I get very very grumpy headachey and angry.
Found out years back while having sinus treatment, and therapy on my wrist we didn't have online access,and didn't know my breathing meds had a steroid in them. As did the therapy cream the PT used on my wrist.
Bad business, uhm 'Beserker Wolfi' throwing things,snarling and yelling. One time of that was one too many.
Diet is an issue, trying to balance things Gluten free, Diabetic diet, yeast issues, 'IBS' type issues, and now Fatty liver disease.
Checking on foods to help the liver, on-line info,they say Avocado, Apples,Berries, Walnuts, Kale, Spinach, Mustard greens and such, also Endive and Chicory.
So we'll be trying to balance all these dietary issues on a limited budget. And see what helpful supplements we can afford also,One is Turmeric.
One of my supplements needs some carbs' to absorb correctly, so I am trying to learn to balance it all. I hope TxC's class is helpful there. he has fatty liver issues too.
Okay, off to take care of some laundry...bbl.
Jus' Silverwolfi
-------------------- 2006,May-August2006 Dx w/ Lyme/Bartonella/White Matter Lesion Disease on Brain. [ Clinical Dx w/ two positives and several IND's on the tests from Igenex ], Prior Dx of CFIDS/CEBV 1992, and FMS '93-'94 Diabetes*2 Dx 10/'08 Posts: 3581 | From SE Idaho | Registered: May 2006
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Liver MBL = mannose binding lectin.
Thanks to Bb which picks up a MBL inhibitor (p8) from the tick's saliva on its way out of the tick.
Not only effected by lyme, but some people (genetically) don't produce enough. It looks like thyroid hormone can upregulate it.
There are things that can reverse a "fatty liver"...*berberine chloride*/milk thistle/good old PLP (active form of B6)...
I'm talking NAFLD...assuming you are not drinking alcohol excessively.
Berberine chloride (OTC - internet) and diflucan (Rx) look to work in synergy.
Please read my OspC -p8 post.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Silverwolf
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9196
posted
Hi <<<<< Marnie >>>>>,
Thanks for info' and links, I bookmarked some of this. Brain isn't functioning as I'd like,so will get more in depth later.
Wondering if there is an herbal 'Diflucan' type product. I have no insurance,all is out of pocket on a tight budget, and Dr. is not LL.
Thankfully, kidneys are behaving,the tests look good in that regard.
My Mom, had Wegner's Disease/granulomatosis, some say it may be lupis related. So I don't know if that could be a factor.
Any Alcohol I consume is very very limited. I don't like the taste,and it is only medicinal for me, And that extremely rarely.
I just don't like the taste. I've been known to call it 'glue dissolver'[don't have a grossed out grimacing graemlin to insert]. The glue dissolver refers to excessively thick mucous, that wont come up w/o help, a rarity for me.
TxC' has been a Substance Abuse Counselor, and we lost his elder brother to alcoholism,in 2012, so we are just not into drinking or other drugs.
I apprecaite the info'and links... BBL...more laundry.
Jus' Silverwolfi
-------------------- 2006,May-August2006 Dx w/ Lyme/Bartonella/White Matter Lesion Disease on Brain. [ Clinical Dx w/ two positives and several IND's on the tests from Igenex ], Prior Dx of CFIDS/CEBV 1992, and FMS '93-'94 Diabetes*2 Dx 10/'08 Posts: 3581 | From SE Idaho | Registered: May 2006
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Silverwolf
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9196
posted
Hi <<<<< Lymetoo >>>>>,
I either read the same link,yesterday,or one very similar.I bookmarked yours.
I've only had the liver issue once before, several years back, and it was very minor, just above the normal numbers. So this caught me by surprise.
I am concerned that this Dr. didn't seem to connect that Metformin, which I don't like, past,present and future, could cause not only liver problems, but also, it could actually cause Lactic Acidosis, which can kill a person.
When the diarrhea,kept worsening recently, even w/ two meds to stop it, I checked the Metformin info' on-line. I had to change to extended release because of 'IBS' and diarrhea problems. And I still have had tender abdomen.
I read the info' to TxC' and he said,let's slowly increase the herbal anti-diabetic supplements you have [such as the berberine /GlycoX and a second one], and stop the Metformin.
For several years I've been supplementing w/ cinnamon and so on, w/ my former Doc's knowledge, to try to keep things in check.
The newer info 'links,are warning that cold/flu/asthma meds may change the action of Metformin, which is not in my other info',as well as some supplements. So I wonder,have they changed the Metformin or something.
I did cross reactivity checking, and didn't have issues before...until now.
'Sivlerwolf I be is an' am...
an' I don't like that Metformi'an...'
I know, bad Green Eggs and Ham, poetry attempt. Metformin is just plain scary.
Jus' laundress Wolfi here
-------------------- 2006,May-August2006 Dx w/ Lyme/Bartonella/White Matter Lesion Disease on Brain. [ Clinical Dx w/ two positives and several IND's on the tests from Igenex ], Prior Dx of CFIDS/CEBV 1992, and FMS '93-'94 Diabetes*2 Dx 10/'08 Posts: 3581 | From SE Idaho | Registered: May 2006
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posted
Glad you are taking a close look at all of that. Prescriptions can be really hard on our bodies. Maybe you can control this with diet and supplements. There is hope!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Okay...boy, I'm really ready to give up!!!
"The precise mechanisms of the development of NAFLD or
While minocycline appears to have many of the SAME beneficial results, berberine chloride appears to be MORE EFFECTIVE - primarily because it does not appear to effect the "good guys" which help us to make and absorb essential nutrients.
Berberine appears to be superior to metformin to control diabetes et. al.
IMO...consider Glycox (ramp up to 500mg TID -evenly spaced doses) AND simultaneously Rx Difulcan.
Plead with your LLMD for Diflucan based on this:
"Dr. Schardt found that when he treated himself and others with chronic Lyme with Diflucan, many of them, including himself, eventually got better, and part of the reason is that he feels Diflucan interferes with the spirochetes’ ability to grow and replicate..."
There appears to be a synergy between Glycox (Berberine chloride) and diflucan. ESPECIALLY to rid RESISTANT Candida.
Those 2...
While Minocyline and Difulcan may have synergy too, IMO...
Berberine Chloride (Glycox) and Diflucan maybe better.
P.S.I have absolutely no ties to supp. companies, pharm. companies, doctors, etc. NO KICK BACKS!!!
I only pray for healing and I believe it IS possible.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Rx Depakote for my son for seizures = disaster! Same is true for many Rxs...opposite or negative reactions (Prozac = more depressed, Lamictal = fungal infection, etc.)
Depakote lowers PLP (B6) and raises toxic homocysteine. Gov. website link, I can provide!!!
His brain CT scan showed "idiopathic intracranial hypertension" (can be attributed to elevated homocysteine). His liver showed "moderate diffuse steatosis". Fatty liver...thanks to Depakote!
Homocysteine (from methionine from protein) HAS to be lowered via the remethylation pathway which needs B9 (folic acid = B9)...yes, the MTHFR link)+ B12 (need for "intrinsic factor or take it sublingual) + zinc (males need more) - esp. if B6 deficient. These 2 pathways are supposed to be in balance, i.e., we lower homocysteine via remethylation and we lower it via the transsulfuration pathway.
I am only beginning to grasp the understanding of genetics + toxin exposure + infection -> diseases.
And appreciate the body's defense to attempt to preserve life for as long as possible - given the above.
Very simplified...B6 = transsulfuration pathway to lower homocysteine versus B12 (less as we age) + B9 (folic acid) + zinc to lower homocysteine via remethylation pathway.
HIS seizures are completely under control with PLP/P5P 50mg BID. The product he takes is by Now...which includes Mg and *B2* (which helps B6 absorption!). Other B6 supplements by different companies do not work the same. Genetically, this maybe HIS body "work-around" to lower homocysteine. Follow?
His cholesterol is LOW...unexpected, given his food choices! Homocysteine -> PLP (B6 active form) + CBS (enzyme) eventually -> taurine (LOWERS CHOLESTEROL) + gluthione (GSH) + sulfate.
I have pictures of these pathways.
To lower toxic homocysteine, genetically, HE uses up B6. Homocysteine levels rise in boys, especially, at puberty (!) which is when his seizures began.
We are also supporting the other pathway..."remethylation" via very low dose DMAE and his depression and anxiety have lifted.
In that "remethylation" pathway "SAM" happens...as in SAMe for depression...
Follow? He was undermethylated and initially Ritalin helped (as a young child).
The methylation pathways are very much implicated in lyme disease
and in genetic "predispositions".
I searched and searched...son's Depakote looked (past tense) also to trigger lactic acidosis.
I get it.
[ 04-10-2014, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: Marnie ]
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Doing the 23andme bloodtest for genetic ability to methylate can show a knowledgeable doctor re detox how to treat, if we have any compromised pathways. Results of the test can be analyzed by geneticgenie and sent to the doctor.
Also, my doc recommends taking Takesumi activated charcoal to aid with internal detox.
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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Silverwolf
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9196
posted
Hi <<<<< Lymetoo, Marnie and Robin' >>>>>,
Thanks for the info' and links, I am checking into many things. But I wont willingly take Metformin again.
BBL ...laundry again,while TxC' si at Choir practice.
Jus' Silverwolfi here
-------------------- 2006,May-August2006 Dx w/ Lyme/Bartonella/White Matter Lesion Disease on Brain. [ Clinical Dx w/ two positives and several IND's on the tests from Igenex ], Prior Dx of CFIDS/CEBV 1992, and FMS '93-'94 Diabetes*2 Dx 10/'08 Posts: 3581 | From SE Idaho | Registered: May 2006
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Berberine vs Metformin:
Berberine...
During the trial, 20 patients experienced ***transient*** gastrointestinal adverse effects.
Silverwolf
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9196
posted
Thank you for the link <<<<< Marnie >>>>>,
I'm checking it out, I think the GlycoX may be easing the IC issues I've been having,and the 'IBS' issues are way better.
I get occasional cranky gut,but it is better than on Metformin. And I am studying up on the kidney issues and how it helps too.
Jus' Silverwolfi-me
-------------------- 2006,May-August2006 Dx w/ Lyme/Bartonella/White Matter Lesion Disease on Brain. [ Clinical Dx w/ two positives and several IND's on the tests from Igenex ], Prior Dx of CFIDS/CEBV 1992, and FMS '93-'94 Diabetes*2 Dx 10/'08 Posts: 3581 | From SE Idaho | Registered: May 2006
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