posted
So I just ordered a pound from 1st Chinese herbs and buhner says to take 1 tbsp a day. How much should I start with? Is this herb gonna make me herx like crazy?
Posts: 908 | From Albany | Registered: Nov 2008
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surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34987
posted
Start w/ a little just in case! 1 teaspoon maybe as opposed to 1 tablespoon.
Doesn't taste good-
Let us know how you do!
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
It's funny he is recommending Houttunya now. I was virtually the ONLY ONE taking this in this forum years ago.
I took other Chinese herbs too besides the old Buhner protocol herbs. Those Chinese herbs really helped too, but no one else was doing that years ago.
Start always slow! And Good luck!
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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ukcarry
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 18147
posted
I never really herxed using Nutramedix Houttuynia on the Cowden Support, but others did, so build up slowly.
Posts: 1647 | From UK | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
Both my daughter and I herxed on 1/2 tsp 3x daily (so 1/2 tbsp total), panic attacks and palpitations, and her motor ticcing returned (this all points to bart die-off for us).
I would start at 1/4 tsp (or even 1/8 if you think your bacterial load is high) in infusion 3x daily, and remain there for a week or so before increasing.
We were never able to get past 1/4 tsp TID in the beginning, so have remained at that dosage for a year or so.
Low (1/4 dosages) of Houttuynia, along with the other herbs in the FULL Bartonella protocol (except l-arginine because I can't rule out viral involvement) have gotten us to a point where we are now asymptomatic.
-------------------- 13 yo DX PANS/Tourette's/Asperger's/ADHD treated for Igenex positive bartonella/IND lyme with 2 years of abx treatment. Weaned off abx April 2013 at 80% improvement. Continuing with Buhner bartonella/babesia protocols. Aug 2014 99% improvement. Posts: 265 | From Canada, Ontario | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
I ordered some of the powdered Houttuynia and was wondering if it is just mixed with hot water and drank. Do you have to strain it or do you drink the powder mixture. I tried the Nutramedix Houttuynia tincture but it is too strong for me at this point so I was hoping I could tolerate the tea better. Thanks for any suggestions because my anxiety is out of control.
Posts: 68 | From Kentucky | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
yes my anxiety is out of control as well. I think you have to drink the powder, some people put in empty capsules and take it that way.
I also added in the CSA tincture from woodland essence with sida acuta in it. I'm planning on adding in more of buhner's herbs slowly. I'm waiting for Quintessence to be back in stock.
Let us know how you do will you. Are you taking anything else for bart?
Posts: 908 | From Albany | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
Currently I am using a rife machine but the herx's are awful and I am only running about 3 minutes every other day.
Two years ago I was on rifampin, doxy, and azithromycin. I tried bactrim and biaxin also. Bactrim helped a lot. Antibiotics helped but my stomach couldn't take it.
Then I went to a ND and did many homeopathics with no luck for a year and to repair my gut.
I have another appointment with a LLMD in October and I am going to go back on antibiotics. I am hoping to knock the load down enough so the rifing herx's will be more tolerable and to use houttuynia.
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Breaking up the text for easier reading for many here -
posted
@ Stumpy - For the houttuynia powder, I bring 1/2 cup of water to a boil and then pour it into a cup containing my dosage of powder for the day. In my case this is 3/4 tsp (I am dosing at 1/4 tsp 3x daily). Cover (so the volatile oils don't escape) and let sit until cool. In one of his books Buhner explains how cooling though various temperatures allows different constituents to be extracted.
When cool, stir and before the contents settle, measure 1 and 1/4 oz into a shot glass. Drink this all down. This will give you 3 doses per day. I infuse new herbs every morning.
We are also using Japanese knotweed powder so I measure the daily dosage of that into the cup along with the houttuynia powder and infuse and dose them together.
Every time I measure out the 1 and 1/4 oz of cooled herbal infusion I add the tinctures we are using to the shot glass as well and then drink the whole thing down.
Really easy!
-------------------- 13 yo DX PANS/Tourette's/Asperger's/ADHD treated for Igenex positive bartonella/IND lyme with 2 years of abx treatment. Weaned off abx April 2013 at 80% improvement. Continuing with Buhner bartonella/babesia protocols. Aug 2014 99% improvement. Posts: 265 | From Canada, Ontario | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Thanks Rowingmom! This helps me tremendously. You and your daughter give me hope. Wishing you both continued success and health.
Posts: 68 | From Kentucky | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
wow, really helpful. Didn't know this. Thanks. I didn't know you could mix the tincture's together.
Posts: 908 | From Albany | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
Buhner says all of his herbs, infusions, tinctures can be taken together. I of course space them at least 2 hours away from the probiotics we take.
-------------------- 13 yo DX PANS/Tourette's/Asperger's/ADHD treated for Igenex positive bartonella/IND lyme with 2 years of abx treatment. Weaned off abx April 2013 at 80% improvement. Continuing with Buhner bartonella/babesia protocols. Aug 2014 99% improvement. Posts: 265 | From Canada, Ontario | Registered: Jul 2013
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GretaM
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 40917
posted
From one bart sufferer to another...
Please go slow when starting bart herbs.
I made the mistake of starting on too high a dose of the CSA tincture, and had encephalitis at day 4.
Was one of the worst episodes of enceph I had.
Good luck with the hott, keep us posted! Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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posted
Does anyone know the difference when ordering from 1st Chinese Herbs between the Houttuynia Nuherb brand and the Plum Flower brand?
Posts: 68 | From Kentucky | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
@jlcd1 - good for you for starting at low dosages of CSA. I started our daughter at 15 drops TID and she developed babesia herx symptoms (dry cough, sighing, chest pressure, air hunger). This was our only indication that she even had babesia.
She had tested negative for duncani and microti, so we assumed we were only dealing with bart. But we couldn't understand why she wasn't better after 2 years of multiple combo abx for bart. Now we know.
We are now dosing at 12 drops BID, and that seems to be fine for us (our daughter is 13 and approx. 100 lbs).
I have also noticed that dosing green/black walnut hull more than once a day (along with CSA and other herbs in the bart/babesia combination protocol) produces babesia herx symptoms as well. So I keep that to 1 dose.
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Breaking up the text a little for easier reading for many here -
-------------------- 13 yo DX PANS/Tourette's/Asperger's/ADHD treated for Igenex positive bartonella/IND lyme with 2 years of abx treatment. Weaned off abx April 2013 at 80% improvement. Continuing with Buhner bartonella/babesia protocols. Aug 2014 99% improvement. Posts: 265 | From Canada, Ontario | Registered: Jul 2013
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CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
rowing mom, did the babesia hinder successful bart treatment? i wonder about this also, do you think that would have been treated first?
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
Our daughter wasn't able to completely recover from her bartonella symptoms until we added Buhner's babesia protocol. A trial of malarone during abx treatment helped her cognitive/executive function, but none of the bart physical pain symptoms.
We added the babesia herbs only after 2 years of multiple combo abx for bartonella, weaned from them (at 80% improvment) and then did another 8 months on the full herbal bart protocol. Improvement to asymptomatic occurred very quickly after that.
We currently continue to treat both babesia and bartonella using low (1/4 dosages) of both protocols (except for l-arginine).
Our daughter continues to be asymptomatic for bartonella, babesia, lyme, PANS/PANDAS, Asperger's, Tourette's, ADHD and motor delay.
I can make no comment about treating babesia first because she tested negative for both microti and duncani through Igenex, and presented with no clinical babesia symptoms. They were all bartonella.
-------------------- 13 yo DX PANS/Tourette's/Asperger's/ADHD treated for Igenex positive bartonella/IND lyme with 2 years of abx treatment. Weaned off abx April 2013 at 80% improvement. Continuing with Buhner bartonella/babesia protocols. Aug 2014 99% improvement. Posts: 265 | From Canada, Ontario | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Wow thats amazing rowingmom. How soon did you start to see improvement? How soon did you wait to add another herb...I was thinking a week, and do you start off with small doses and work up? Sorry for all the questions, what book of his should I order?
Posts: 908 | From Albany | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
It only took a week or so for noticeable improvement after we added CSA. Her teacher actually called the next week wondering what we had been doing with her treatment because she was now able to grasp math concepts previously not understood, she was a lot happier and more helpful.
After looking back at her charts I see that the bartonella long bone pain started resolving from level 1 or 2 at this point to 0.
It wasn't all smooth sailing though.
She hit a herx about 3 weeks later that gradually built until I realized what was going on and decreased dosage. I had been dosing at 1/4 tsp (35 drops QD - 1x daily) and switched to 10 drops BID - 2x daily, and the herx dissipated within 3 days. We remain at 12-15 drops BID as that seems to work for us.
CSA was actually one of the last herbs we have added (Nov 2013). We had already worked up to good dosages of all the bartonella herbs previously, and remained on them.
Since then we have cilantro tincture (2 drop TID - 3x daily) in April and added bidens (1 drop QD is all we can handle) and red root (4 drops TID - 3x daily) in July.
These were an afterthought. After talking to Buhner's associate she suggested more herbs from the babesia protocol. I hadn't intended on adding them, but I think cilantro has been great for metal detox (we are significantly less electrosensitive since starting it), and red root has been good for increasing blood circulation. My hands haven't gotten numb since I started using it, and my arms don't fall asleep painfully at night like they used to. I have noticed a significant lifting of brain fog using these 2 herbs.
-------------------- 13 yo DX PANS/Tourette's/Asperger's/ADHD treated for Igenex positive bartonella/IND lyme with 2 years of abx treatment. Weaned off abx April 2013 at 80% improvement. Continuing with Buhner bartonella/babesia protocols. Aug 2014 99% improvement. Posts: 265 | From Canada, Ontario | Registered: Jul 2013
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GretaM
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 40917
posted
I started Houttuynia today.
It tastes of lemon when it is mixed with CSA tincture and a drop of Teasel.
One of the more pleasant tating things I have tried in this adventure called lyme.
I thought it was supposed to taste very foul.
So relieved it does not.
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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posted
When I was taking houttuynia tea, I kept getting intestinal pain. Anyone else have this problem or know what it is?
Posts: 705 | From WA state | Registered: Jul 2011
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posted
Maybe it was just the bartonella being killed off by it?? What dosage did you start with Greta?
Posts: 908 | From Albany | Registered: Nov 2008
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