posted
With a family history of liver problems and my own DNA confirming this, I've been reluctant (scared is more like it) to take Plaquenil or Malarone.
I stopped taking doxycycline after being on it for 5 months, and my neuro symptoms got worse. I saw my LLMD today and agreed to start on Augmentin. I have Buhner's books, and brought up the possibility of treating Babesia with herbs while treating Lyme with the Augmentin.
He said herbs can help, but they aren't effective as the sole treatment. He wants me to take both Malarone and Plaquenil, and start at the therapeutic dose (rather than begin slowly). He would test my liver function every 6 weeks.
I wish I could get another opinion, but he is the only doctor around who knows anything about tick-borne illness--and I've been lucky to have him, because he knows a lot.
Still, I'm reluctant to go ahead with the two prescriptions. He was adamant that I need them, and said my liver was "dying" because of Babesia. He based this on the fact that it was painful to have him press on it.
What's your take on this? Thank you.
Posts: 117 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Jul 2010
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
I couldn't take zith (allergic) so I couldn't be treated with mepron or malarone. So, my lyme doc cured my babesiosis with Bactrim DS and pulsed artemesinin.
My doc said Bactrim will work, it just takes twice as long as mepron/zith.
Perhaps you could treat your babs that way instead.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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Rumigirl
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posted
What about doing liver cleanses, including coffee enemas, to help your liver out?
Personally, I think everyone needs liver cleanses, due to what we are subjected to, no matter how careful we are.
Posts: 3771 | From around | Registered: Mar 2008
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That might be a good place to start if you can do it.
Posts: 764 | From Northwest | Registered: Sep 2014
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bluelyme
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posted
Cbs mutatuon can be ruff for sulfa drugs ..i didnt have enough folate or something ...augmentin is two abx in 1 and is also hard on liver ...iv glutithione ,silymarin and ala have helped my doc is testing only every 12 weeks so
-------------------- Blue Posts: 1539 | From southwest | Registered: Dec 2015
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me
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Member # 45475
posted
Different people are comfortable with different types of treatment.
For me personally, I go with antibiotics, antimalarials, etc. at this point.
Babesia is a particularly resilient little bugger. A combo of antimalarials, antibiotics, and cryptolepis (a strong herb to traeat babesia) has helped, but I still have a road ahead of me.
For me, it put it into perspective when someone likened trying to kill syphilis spirochetes without antibiotics-- that seems kind of tough.
Ultimately, it comes down to what you are comfortable with along with how much you trust your LLMD.
And, you can always change courses of treatment if something isn't working or if you're having problems with the treatment plan.
Best wishes.
-------------------- Just sharing my experiences, opinions, and what I've read and learned. Not medical advice. Posts: 1431 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2015
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posted
I didn't realize Malarone needed Zithromax. I had to stop taking Zith about a month ago; I wonder if my doctor forgot that fact when he prescribed the Malarone.
I've had my DNA tested, and noticed the report mentioned various drugs--usually to say they might be ineffective. I'll have to use Malarone and Plaquenil as search terms, and see what I come up with.
I have the CBS mutation and can't tolerate sulfa. Molybdenum and probiotics (Theralac) have been lifesavers for me. With them, I can enjoy sulfur-containing vegetables again. Before, they would drain my serotonin. Terrible feeling.
Thanks for responding, everyone!
Posts: 117 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Jul 2010
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Catgirl
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posted
I'm with your doc, I don't think herbs alone will do it either. I have the same thing (CBS mutation) and couldn't handle zith.
It doesn't seem sensible to add strong drugs to a painful liver but I'm not a doc. It actually sounds like your liver needs a break. Consider trying coffee enemas. I do them all the time--they clean out the liver fast and I feel much better afterwards.
You can also try parasite meds. My babs symptoms are much better with proto treatment and malarone. Proto (the fry bug) protects all the bugs with massive biofilm. Prior to hitting proto though I made little progress with babs. I suspect people who can't cure their babs may have proto too.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Some good replies above, each to consider.
I would not start any Rx unless you have good liver support on board, though - and it has to be done with careful timing in relation to some babesia Rx.
With good liver support, an Rx treatment suggested might be both tolerated and effective.
One thing for sure, though, I would make Babesia top on list to address, and while you make a decision you might do some specific herbs.
I'm hesitant, as is catgirl, about starting anything - anything - at top dose. But there might be a scientific reason why with babesia -- still, get liver support established FIRST.
You might consider, along with key support herbs (or at times, "direct" herbs) suggested by an ILADS educated LL ND:
posted
I got rid of my babesia with zith and artemisinin. It only took a few months. I believe it was about 2 months.
I DID take many earlier rounds of clindamycin and quinine, but I would not recommend it.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Jordana
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posted
I agree with doc.
I took the whole Buhner protocol for babs for about 4 months. It did help with symptoms but no way is it gone.
Babesia is dangerous. More dangerous than Lyme if you want to compare them. You need real drugs.
Posts: 2057 | From Florida | Registered: Feb 2015
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bluelyme
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posted
Did your liposomal art pack a wallop tad much ?...most man made drugs take nature and try to sythensize and patent ...i had more of a herx on andrographis and smilax than rocephin and zith...
i am trying herbs and frequency medicine for suspect toxo..allopathic would have me on sulfa and pyramethamine for life ...not feeling that
one lady said she had remission from 40 yrs of lyme with herb treatment ...babs is funny i think ducanni is diffetent that microti as far as stubbornous and succeptability..do you know which flavor you got?
-------------------- Blue Posts: 1539 | From southwest | Registered: Dec 2015
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posted
I don't know which babs I have, but I remember when I got it. Symptoms were so specific. I think it was six years ago.
I'm concerned about babesia, of course, but my most worrisome symptoms right now are related to neuro Lyme. I'm concerned about my vision. My time in front of the computer has become limited because of this.
My LLMD said I should see an ophthalmologist. The earliest app't I could get was mid-September. If he knows nothing about Lyme (most likely), I wonder how helpful he'll be.
Catgirl, so you were able to take malarone without zithromax?
Also, what is the proto treatment? Every time I come here I not only learn something new but I learn about something I never heard of (like proto).
Jordana
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
Liposomal artemisinin is a drug, blue; synthesized from a plant. Artemisia annua is an herb, and it did not clear my babs either.
Posts: 2057 | From Florida | Registered: Feb 2015
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
Burrascano says liver function should be tested every 3 weeks while on long-term babs treatment with mepron/malarone. See page 24. Carefully read that section.
Be on the lookout for a yellowing of skin, eyes, etc. while on Mepron or Malarone and call the doc immediately if you notice such a reaction.
This happened to a friend of mine during the second month of mepron/zith. She called the doc to say she thought she looked a little yellow. Was told to drive immediately to a blood lab. Stop meds.
Lab results showed elevated liver enzymes and she had to stop babs treatment until they came down. In her case, it took about 5 months for them to return to normal. Then, she was able to resume babs therapy.
My friend wasn't sure she was turning yellow. Even so, if you think it is happening, call the doc. It is easy for him to fax a blood test order to your blood lab and find out. Better safe than sorry with this type of issue.
And, my lyme doc would test your liver enzyme levels PRIOR to having you start therapy just to be sure that this was safe for you.
Let us know how it goes.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Lymetoo: I got rid of my babesia with zith and artemisinin. It only took a few months. I believe it was about 2 months.
I DID take many earlier rounds of clindamycin and quinine, but I would not recommend it.
When did your doc decide that you got rid of it? No more symptoms? I treated with zith and Mepron followed by several months of cyrotolepsis and mcbab and other herbals.
I don't know how you tell if it's gone or just sub clinical. My antibody levels went from over 1000 on the test to >375 (can't remember exact reading). I did bio meridian stress test till it wasn't coming up as well.
My vertigo is gone, but I sometimes wonder if it's there still.
Posts: 133 | From North Shore | Registered: Sep 2015
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posted
I believe I got rid of babesia using the Buhner protocol and that was last winter. I made my own superior tinctures and took them for five months. I started Buhner's lyme protocol in May and am feeling better but too soon to tell.
After three years of having my intestines abused by antibiotics, and with limited success, I'm sticking to the herb route. I need my intestines to survive.
Posts: 705 | From WA state | Registered: Jul 2011
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bluelyme
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posted
Intestines are good.
i thought it was a suppliment that you could get with out a script .? Quicksilver looks tasty.
Gunna do my giemsa stain again soon...i love taking it into my own hands ..
-------------------- Blue Posts: 1539 | From southwest | Registered: Dec 2015
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bcb1200
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posted
I don't know if I agree with the OP.
While I know many on here got well with abx, I also know of many many really sick people who were much sicker than I was who got well with herbs only.
I believe Brussels on this board is one. My friend is another. He used Applied Kinesiology and treated with herbs and other supplements.
Another great story is Brenda from Real Food Rebel. She was sick with Lyme and Parasites for decades and near death and has now made a complete recovery thanks to treating Parasites, going on the Wahl Paleo Diet, and using Buhner Herbs.
-------------------- Bite date ? 2/10 symptoms began 5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors
IgM Igenex +/CDC + + 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93
Currently on:
Currently at around 95% +/- most days. Posts: 3134 | From Massachusetts | Registered: May 2010
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Brussels
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posted
Exactly. No drugs, except ONE box (3days) of Riamet (Coartem).
Drugs kill me, I feel. Extremely toxic, then digestive problems.
I did try artemisinin. It did something (like my 3day course of Riamet also did), but in the end, babesia was still with me.
It took me about 20 different plants for me to get rid of babesia. I got it twice (I mean, fresh babesia, after new tick bites).
No doctor knows which drugs to take, and in my case, same protocol of herbs didn't work second time.
Babesia is extremely hard to eliminate, but if you keep attacking it constantly SHIFTING herbs and supplements, it'll go. It gets tired of fighting back, at a certain point.
The problem with babesia is that symptoms change, from acute, to subacute, then to chronic, then you don't know if you are dealing with bartonella or other infections.
That is why I tell people: try energy tests to find out your specific protocol.
Change protocol EVERY WEEK, at latest.
Take LOADs of binders, as babesia is the MASTER of herxheimer. Much worse than candida and borrelia COMBINED.
No energy testing: then go for drugs, but they are not 100% sure either (just see posts here, in the last DECADE).
When I got my 2nd babesial infection under control, with intensive energy testing, changes of amount and herbs every day (no exaggeration, but that is the exact description what I did), LOADS of binders (or I felt literally like dying), I had that only question in mind:
^How the heck do other people get rid of such a stubborn infection like babesia, without energy tests.
The question remains in my brain today.
You guys may survive one babesial infection, just by trial or error. But write this down: get another fresh one on top of the chronic (through a new bite), and your life MAY get endangered in a matter of days.
that was my case. so I do not agree with your doctor. Herbs can do the job.
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Catgirl
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Alisandne:
Catgirl, so you were able to take malarone without zithromax?
Yes, I take malaraone without zith.
I also completely agree with Brussels, I muscle test and shift herbs everyday. IMO it's the greatest gift a lyme patient can give him/herself.
I also have or had several forms of babs but have knocked some down (way less symptoms). There's more than just duncani and microti.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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We did some rounds of antibiotics and a tinidizole (that started to give him more neuro problems) and we only did that because his fiance' insisted and also our son was out of the country that did not have much help available for Lyme. We did anti-virals with no change.
His liver started hurting and he turned yellow even though he should have been able to detox those drugs. He wiped out his gut flora.
But now he is back in the country and we have made fantastic and remarkable progress in the last 6 weeks on homeopathy and Rife.
I agree with Brussels that it is tricky business to try to get well without energy testing.
Being new to Lyme years ago I had a lot to learn (still do- but sometimes I wonder if drug side effects could be complicating people's cases. How can one decipher? It is not so easy to sort out.).
It was my feeling our son should be able to get well on energy medicine but I knew it would be irresponsible to not take him to a LLMD.
So, we took him to not one but two LLMDs. Still, we did not see any change. Nice guys though.
We dumped thousands into herbs following famous protocols. Still no change.
I mean- really you could be treating for Lyme and it is EBV. Or you could be treating EBV and it is really something else. Around and around we go.
Getting him back home and taking the lead in our hands to do energy testing and homeopathy and Rife has been, by far, the most effective.
And you know what? We are not even treating Lyme! We are using frequencies for TB that came up on his energy testing. Of course, he does NOT have TB but our family had ancestors with TB and weak lungs run in the family so I chose those frequencies and amazingly they worked!
It is so interesting that whatever it is we are treating keeps responding to those frequencies.
How would I have ever found that doing the pharma route? or even the herb route?
At any rate, I have heaps of new bottles of herbs I am going to put on ebay. I really feel like this whole 7 year episode will be coming to an end soon as every day he is better and better without any toxicity. I am also going to list an ozone machine we never used.
If you are going to use pharma, though, the detoxigenomic test is a "must" I feel.
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