posted
I'm three months into my second round of rifampin (first round was ~3-4 months last Oct-Feb), and in the last week or two, I developed new bartonella-like stretch marks on my upper thighs.
I am taking 900mg 1x/day - so I'm on *a lot* of rifampin.
These are definitely not stretch marks, as they are vertical, and as far as I know, I stopped growing 20 years ago. My thighs aren't growing in width, either, at the moment anyway.
Can bartonella do this as it is dying out? The only other bartonella symptoms that I have (that I know of) is some foot pain, but that could also be collagen damage to the tendons.
Or does this mean re-infection of Bart? Very discouraged that I still have Bartonella and Babesia (hot flashes, sweaty all. the. time.) in addition to Lyme after a full year of abx, herbal, and some homeopathic treatments. Can we ever get rid of this crud?
Posts: 243 | From Southern Arizona | Registered: Jun 2015
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TNT
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
I would think it's fairly unlikely you got reinfected while on treatment.
But,
Are you on Zithromax along with the Rifampin? It is absolutely necessary to also be on a macrolide when using Rifampin. Otherwise the Bart bugs will build up resistance. Monotherapy is never recommended.
I do think it's possible you are experiencing a die-off or even another layer of Bart coming to the surface so to speak. If I remember correctly, I think at a certain point in Bart treatment you can experience a "resurgence" of symptoms, but it just means the bugs are coming out and being killed. Look up "RC1"'s posts about Bart treatment. I believe it was she that mentioned this. She treated under the Bart guru for a while.
But, if you are on monotherapy, it's possible the bugs are growing resistant and proliferating.
According to the Bart guru (Dr. M), it takes AT LEAST 6 months of proper treatment, and sometimes much longer, to eradicate Bartonella once it's entrenched.
Hang in there, you'll get on top of it!
Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
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posted
TF - thanks for reassuring me that it's unlikely I've been reinfected. I guess this is just another weird aspect of this disease.
I'm on IM Rocephin 4 days on 3 off, and Ceftin for the 3 days I'm not on the IM shots. I don't think that's a macrolide, though...?
Also on Alinia at the moment as the end of the Dr. K. anti-parasite protocol.
And of course, Actigall, and nystatin.
And I've been on 30+ drops (2 droppers) of A-BART since ~Sept/Oct of last year...hopefully that would cover that 6 month mark, but it might not be enough to eradicate bart?
Can you send me the links to articles/books by Dr. M? I would like to read more, and I don't know who Dr. M is.
Posts: 243 | From Southern Arizona | Registered: Jun 2015
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
Hey Pale,
Sorry you got more streaks. Hopefully that indicates a herx thing going on.
And a boyfriend with bartonella marks (or stretch marks...he did gain a lot of weight a year or two ago), and no money to see an LLMD. So I'm worried that is where a re-infection could have come from.
Bf has no other symptoms (or rather, he blames everything on having gained weight, and being mostly sedentary, so it's hard to tell if he might have Bart there somewhere).
Posts: 243 | From Southern Arizona | Registered: Jun 2015
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Tincup
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I believe a trip to your local vet for a blood test- for your cat, not the bf- might give you some answers.
I've seen people with a cat become reinfected multiple times. It would make sense (to me) to check the cat since all the $$ you put into this for your treatment would be wasted if you keep becoming re-infected.
posted
Tincup - ha! I'll tell my bf that Lymenet has spoken and he needs to head to the vet!
I mentioned it the last time at the vet and got the same rolled eyes looks as I do at the doctor. Oh well. She's due for her checkup, so I guess I'll spring for the testing. You're right, it would be a waste of treatment otherwise.
Posts: 243 | From Southern Arizona | Registered: Jun 2015
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Judie
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posted
Unfortunately, a lot of antibiotics don't completely kill bart. It just takes down the load.
"Traditionally, rifampin has been combined with Zithromax. Alternatives to Zithromax include doxycycline and others. I have consistently found minocycline to be anti-Bartonella, while doxycycline lacks this property. Biaxin/Zithromax do in fact have some (weak) anti-Bartonella properties although Bactrim remains a better drug for Bartonella."
Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012
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bluelyme
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posted
I feel a vet could treat my gf better than most docs ...ha ..judie thanks for that link ... i think bart is more of a problem than led to believe ...gunna start some rifampin and gunna pair it with something tasty
btw paleo i found toxoplasmosis on dkf blood test ..negative thru tricore ...may have something to do in muscle loss
-------------------- Blue Posts: 1539 | From southwest | Registered: Dec 2015
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Tincup
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Blue said... "I feel a vet could treat my gf better than most docs.."
The hard part would be getting a collar and leash on her. And making her use the outside facilities. Good luck with that.
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Pale- so sorry you got the from the vet. Is it time to change vets? You don't need that attitude there too! They should take all of your concerns seriously.
I tried to ask vets in Maryland if they were seeing many cases of Bartonella (survey while taking them literature to hand out) and they gave me the too.
Turns out most never tested any animals for it and couldn't even tell me what lab would be used. That was sad.
I don't know a good lab from a bad one when it comes to animal testing, but you may want to call some vets in the area and find out who they use (if anyone).
In the meantime here are a couple of links to labs saying they do the testing. You may need to take this info with you to your vet, if you keep the same one. Save you and them time and $$$ for you.
The second link is for Galaxy Lab, the same one we use for humans.
bluelyme
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Member # 47170
posted
Tc..you crack me up.if only we had been wearing tick collars ...and she has loosened my leash...we joke about taking ol blue out to pasture ..not yet haha
how has your sàlty dog endured bartonella for so long ?
-------------------- Blue Posts: 1539 | From southwest | Registered: Dec 2015
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
No, old Blue isn't ready to be put out to pasture yet.
And if she tries to pull that stuff again, just bite her on the ankle.
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Nah, Bartonella hasn't affected me none.
Just cause I forgot I don't drink, the grapefruit juice in the salty dog won't mix with my meds, the salt would raise my BP, haven't been on a sailboat for 30 plus years, would fry in the sun- puffy clouds or not, am allergic to the dye in the jelly beans, and would need at least 2 cushions to fit my rump upon comfortably... that don't matter none.
posted
Bahaha Tincup, you crack me up. I was just thinking - man it would be nice to be able to hang out in the sun for an afternoon sipping "adult" beverages....but none of those things work for me anymore...
in case anyone wanted an update, the vet is sending my kitty's sample to Galaxy labs - I looked them up and they do the best Bart testing for humans, too, don't they?
Poor kitty. I do hope it shows something and we can try antibiotics. The vet said she wouldn't treat without a positive test result.
My kitty does have some weird symptoms, like she licks her fur off, which I imagine I would do too if I had fur and I had shooting pains under it...and she has feline hyperesthesia (skin rippling), which is definitely what my skin feels like some time. So, hopefully there's enough bart in her blood for it to be visible, and then we can treat her and I can stop getting re-infected!
Posts: 243 | From Southern Arizona | Registered: Jun 2015
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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Pale,
So glad you had the test done! That was fast too! Guess your bf was thinking "better the cat than me". HA!
When I posted the Galaxy Lab link I couldn't say how good the test actually is, but that lab is quite popular with humans. I'd love to hear more- whatever you'd care to share.
It can help me help others by proving more up to date info than I have.
And if it is not considered rude or intrusive, can you let us know what the test cost? I have no clue.
And please, if it comes back positive, take the lab report, roll it up like you would a newspaper, and smack that vet on the nose with it.
Extreme ignorance in a medical doctor is bad enough. Vets should know better.
YOU shouldn't have to be doing the research, coming up with differential diagnoses, pay for the test and her office bill too, and then have to put up with her attitude.
Anxiously awaiting some answers for you! It may not be the problem, but it is still good to rule it out.
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from the vet. Is it time to change vets? You don't need that attitude there too! They should take all of your concerns seriously.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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