posted
Does anyone know if Bartonella testing is accurate in cats?
Looks like my vet used Galaxy labs (my LLMD recommended we test my cat because Bart keeps coming back for me), and my cat tested positive for two Bartonella strains - serology only, though, not PCR. So, that means she's been "exposed".
So, is my cat positive for Bartonella? Should we treat her in the hopes it keeps the Bartonella I have from coming back a third time?
She is symptomatic, but atypically. She exhibits feline hyperesthesia and overgrooming of one spot on her side. When Bartonella is active for me, I know I often slap or scratch at the sudden onset electrical "zaps", so maybe she really does have the same symptoms I do and may even have an active infection??
Any guidance is appreciated. Thanks.
Posts: 243 | From Southern Arizona | Registered: Jun 2015
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Hey Pale,
You said... "Looks like my vet used Galaxy labs (my LLMD recommended we test my cat because Bart keeps coming back for me)..."
Funny, I just suggested the same exact thing to a member here not too long ago. And their cat had the same strange symptoms yours does. We had several discussions about it, or was I dreaming?
Your cat, like I suspected with the other person, is positive for Bartonella, two strains. That is accurate.
From what I remember the cat had not been tested before, so we had to check out labs. Your cat has not treated yet either. ??
With PCR's it is very hard to get a positive (especially with Bartonella), but when you do it won't be a false positive.
And YES, treat the cat! Otherwise you'll keep being exposed! That was the whole point of testing. We want YOU to be better too.
BTW- Isn't that what your vet was holding out about? The vet wouldn't treat without a positive test?
This sounds too familiar to not be you Pale. But, my memory isn't the greatest this late at night, and I chat with many, so it may not have been you and your cat.
Got me thinking though! HA! Is my brain frying?
Glad you got some answers and I hope you and your cat will see some good results!
posted
Ha - Tincup, it was probably me. This is like a long saga with the vet, just like with any doc before I met my LLMD. I think I complained last month about new Bartonella rashes appearing even during a course of rifampin.
OK, so it sounds like serology is enough for treatment in people and cats. I think my vet is willing to listen to my LLMD, and if they say "treat the cat", hopefully we can get her onto azithromycin ASAP. Looks like that's one of the treatments, anyway.
Poor kitty! We've also put her on flea and worm preventatives monthly, so hopefully that means I won't get parasites from her either moving forward.
Posts: 243 | From Southern Arizona | Registered: Jun 2015
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posted
Oh wait, this PDF (https://cvm.ncsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Treatment_Bartonellosis.pdf)
says:
"doxycycline and pradofloxacin in cats should be considered, until other antibiotics or antibiotic combinations are proven to be effective. A combination of two antibiotics with different modes of action, one achieving high blood concentrations and the other achieving high intracellular concentrations is seemingly needed to eradicate Bartonella infections"
I hope my LLMD has some good recommendations for the vet! This is starting to sound as complicated as these diseases in humans.
Posts: 243 | From Southern Arizona | Registered: Jun 2015
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Catgirl
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 31149
posted
I don't think cats can take abx (my vet told me no, not good). That said, I was recently advised that bart is transferable only through litter box feces.
I questioned that cats always clean themselves, so could it be transferable that way? Practitioner said no, it stays in the feces. So if you just wear a mask when you scoop, problem solved (that's what my practitioner told me).
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
That sounds more like toxoplasmosis, doesn't it? Isn't that one transferred by feces?
Do you have any references from your vet? I haven't heard yet from my vet or my LLMD about next steps for my kitty, but I sure would like to get rid of Bartonella myself. I've found some vet pages on the internet that all say cats can take antibiotics...?
Posts: 243 | From Southern Arizona | Registered: Jun 2015
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Catgirl
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 31149
posted
Toxo and bart I guess.
You might check with your vet regarding abx. That was a long time ago that a vet told me not to use abx for lyme. I'm not sure if that still holds true.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
Hey Pale,
Cats can take antibiotics. If I were your cat I'd probably at this point be a carrier of Bartonella, so I'd start with doxy.
Please note- I've seen animals get worse before they get better, like a herx?
You said... "So if you just wear a mask when you scoop, problem solved (that's what my practitioner told me)."
Might want to tell your practitioner Bartonella is also, and more commonly called, cat scratch fever or cat scratch disease, not cat poop disease.
From what I understand you can get Bartonella from cat and dog scratches and bites and of course from fleas, ticks and mites. Cats that fight with other infected cats can get it too.
So no. Scooping with a mask does NOT totally protect you from getting Bartonella.
Catgirl
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 31149
posted
Thanks Tincup! So I'm not wearing a mask until my vet actually finds bart. Even then, I just take A-bart (it's manageable). We will always have cats (love them)!
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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quote: Bartonella generally starts out with a "lesion" of some sort- or bump.
Tincup you are BRILLIANT!
My cat's overgrooming started with an "ant bite" and now she grooms a nearby area.
That was last February, around the time I started getting recurring high fevers and shooting pains (Bartonella).
I can't believe the poor thing has been suffering for so long from this disease, and we have been medicating her totally wrong.
I also wonder if I'd even know I had Lyme if she hadn't given me Bartonella and pushed me over the top immune-wise.
Wow. Thank you everyone for your thoughts on all this. I hope we can get her doxy soon and knock this out!!
Posts: 243 | From Southern Arizona | Registered: Jun 2015
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Hey catgirl,
My bet was you liked cats, otherwise that's a rather funny name you picked for use on LymeNet. HA!
Just to be clear, what I was saying was wearing a mask while scooping poop-- as your ONLY precaution for preventing the transmission of Bartonella-- wasn't enough.
Contact with cat poop can expose people to a number of diseases, and those with a compromised immune system are more at risk of getting the diseases that perhaps others might not.
It might be a good idea for you to wear that mask, so please don't do it because of something I said. But also know scratches, bites, etc. by cats may also transmit Bartonella.
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Pale,
Thanks so much for the kind words, but the truth is I am not really "brilliant". (Don't tell the others I said that though, ok?)
Please remember, this is a person responding to you that calls herself tincup, spends her Saturday nights on imaginary dates with Mel Gibson, and eats more ice cream than she should.
Not the picture I get in mind when I hear the word "brilliant". But, I thank you for your kind words.
posted
Haha - well, I've been trying to figure out how to include ice cream in a Lyme diet - I'd call that brilliant.
And hey, it's not like I go out on Saturday nights, or any night, anymore. No judgement here.
Many thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge on so many of my ignorant posts here!
Posts: 243 | From Southern Arizona | Registered: Jun 2015
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Oh, and now that you mention "ant" bite, a while back there was a documented case of a human being bitten by an ant and getting Bartonella.
Not 100%, but I think it was in Australia?
Bartonella can also be found in some dolphins, whales and porpoises. Have you or your cat been swimming with any of those creatures lately?
Bats, leeches, monkeys, bandicoots, mardos and even squirrels can carry Bartonella. I hope they aren't regular dinner guests at your place. That could be a problem.
Glad you are able to put some things together now, and sorry you got Bartonella in the first place.
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Your posts aren't ignorant! Not at all! They just make all of us think a little harder than normal.
Actually, I like a challenge. And if it can be addressed and ends up helping someone, all the better. I learn when challenged, so I thank you for that.
BTW- I had to stop dating Mel Gibson when I found out he was two-timing me. Now I stay home and do research instead.
Just don't tell anyone. OK? They still think I am pretty cool, and not so much the wall flower that I am.
Please keep us up to date on the cats progress. Seriously. It may help others in the future.
posted
Vet is happy to treat the cat based on my LLMD saying we should to prevent my reinfection.
He also mentioned that while her three main symptoms could be Bartonella, they could also be something else. Here are the symptoms:
-overgrooming (currently being managed with gabapentin) -feline hyperesthesia (currently being managed with gabapentin) -frequent vomiting (not currently treated)
...but at the end of the appointment relented that hyperesthesia is idiopathic, so "who knows, treating Bartonella may help, and that would be interesting." I was actually quite pleased with his open-mindedness.
The kitty is taking doxycycline for 4 weeks at a pretty high dose (for a cat...), so hopefully that eradicates both Bartonella strains. I'm sure if I asked for more I could get it - I will see how she does and if we can wean her off the pain medication.
First dose was tonight, and it went about as well as you can expect giving medicine to a cat. But she's dozing happily now so hopefully all will go well.
Thanks for the thoughts everyone, and Tincup - you're better off without Mel! Your research has helped hundreds if not thousands of people! And at least one cat! Posts: 243 | From Southern Arizona | Registered: Jun 2015
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
NOW I find the post! Just started another one for you about Bartonella and poop.
The quote about the cat that I shared- please show it to your vet. It appears the 4 weeks won't get it. Sorry!
1Koret School of Veterinary Medicine,The Robert H. Smith Faculty of Agriculture, Food and Environment,The Hebrew University of Jerusalem,P.O. Box 12, Rehovot 76100,Israel. 2Nature Parks Authority,Jerusalem,Israel.
Abstract
Bartonella infection was explored in wild animals from Israel. Golden jackals (Canis aureus), red foxes (Vulpes vulpes), rock hyraxes (Procavia capensis), southern white-breasted hedgehogs (Erinaceus concolor), social voles (Microtus socialis), Tristram's jirds (Meriones tristrami), ...
Cairo spiny mice (Acomys cahirinus), house mice (Mus musculus) and Indian crested porcupines (Hystrix indica) were sampled and screened by molecular and isolation methods.
Bartonella-DNA was detected in 46 animals: 9/70 (13%) golden jackals, 2/11 (18%) red foxes, 3/35 (9%) rock hyraxes, 1/3 (33%) southern white-breasted hedgehogs, 5/57 (9%) Cairo spiny mice, 25/43 (58%) Tristram's jirds and 1/6 (16%) house mice.
Bartonella rochalimae and B. rochalimae-like were widespread among jackals, foxes, hyraxes and jirds. This report represents the first detection of this zoonotic Bartonella sp. in rock hyraxes and golden jackals.
Moreover, DNA of Bartonella vinsonii subsp. berkhoffii, Bartonella acomydis, Candidatus Bartonella merieuxii and other uncharacterized genotypes were identified. Three different Bartonella strains were isolated from Tristram's jirds, and several genotypes were molecularly detected from these animals.
Furthermore, this study reports the first detection of Bartonella infection in a southern hedgehog.
Our study indicates that infection with zoonotic and other Bartonella species is widespread among wild animals and stresses their potential threat to public health.
posted
Thanks for the reminder of the article you sent, Tincup - I read that too, but I'm so afraid of floroqunolones after my horrible experience on one pill of avelox three weeks ago that I can't imagine my kitty, who weighs all of 8 lbs! on those.
So, I guess we'll do doxy for a while and see if it improves her issues. Maybe it will be enough for her? Apparently it's easier to clear in cats than in humans??
Posts: 243 | From Southern Arizona | Registered: Jun 2015
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Judie
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Member # 38323
posted
I'm so sorry for your kitty! My cat had bartonella too and had atypical symptoms. The vet suspected bart after ruling out other stuff.
Kitty was on amoxicillin for 6 weeks and it knocked it out. Even did tissue testing 6 months later to double check and he was fine. It was pretty easy to treat once diagnosed, I hope that's some comfort. No need to FQs
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