Marz
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My naturopath recently tested me by autonomic reflex testing and thinks I have babesia.
She's given me artemisia, but said I should see LLMD because artemisia alone might not do it.
I have never had classic babs symptoms--no sweats or air hunger.
Of course I googled ART and most everyone says its not accurate. In a youtube, someone went to two different people and got two different reactions to food testing. Those were kinesiologists, but it seems the same as ART to me.
If I just do the artemisia alone for a while, should I get a herx reaction that would verify it's babs?
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WPinVA
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I have just recently been seeing someone who does this and I have to say that I'm pretty impressed with it. It is a leap of faith for sure. I imagine it also depends on the skill level of the person doing it.
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bluelyme
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Dna connexions if you need to confirm... art found giardia and bart before labs did ...it missed ascaris
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ukcarry
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My experience of this sort of evaluation has been mixed: I agree totally with WPinVA that it is as good as the practitioner, so does your naturopath have a good reputation for art testing?
Yes, it is a leap of faith, but then so many conventional tests miss the mark, so don't discount it.
[ 12-03-2016, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: ukcarry ]
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MichaelTampa
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I have gotten different results from different practitioners on food testing from time to time. What question exactly is being asked? Easily, it could be different.
I rely on this approach quite a bit, but it does matter who is doing it, how they are doing that, and so on. I don't take any such answers as absolute truth, but as guidance along with all other information that is available. Still, I find it adds much help to the mix.
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Brussels
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ART was THE turning point from my lyme treatment.
It is, as said above, as good as the practitioner.
I did ART through one MD in Switzerland, and a naturopath in Germany (right hand of dr. K).
Both had different skills, but both found ALL coinfections they could test, at that time.
Both used DIFFERENT treatments, different remedies, different strategies. So I kept going to both, as both helped (they knew I was seeing them).
Both told me: if I do not take some teeth off, I would remain probably ill (they didn't know what the other was testing, of course...).
That is when I finally decided to pull some teeth off (after a year getting better, but not healed).
After I got better, and so did my daughter, I learned ART myself. I use it for everything.
As dr. K says, it is not 100% correct, but feels like about 80% 'correct'. If not correct, it at least, gives me some hints.
It is certainly MUCH better than guessing in total darkness.
ART made my healing goes about 20 times FASTER than without it. At least, if not more.
I felt like being scanned through an X-ray: acupuncture points in trouble appeared, teeth in trouble were shown,
... which glands were not working properly, which organs were stuck with whatever problems,
... which infection still remain in certain parts of my body, which parts had interference fields that were hampering healing,
... which heavy metals were stuck and where were they stuck, and which substances were needed to get rid of them, and when I took these substances, they could test if the binder was reaching the actual spot or not.
If blocked, they could test what unblocked the spot and made the binder reach the place and bind the heavy metal off...
... they could test which false ideas I had that were also hampering my healing, or more astonishingly, which bad feelings people around me had that hampered my healing (because I let them influence me)...
stuff like that.
I find it funny your ART practitioner saying you got babs but he /she can't find the remedies?
Well, even my daughter can test remedies, once the problem is found. S/He may mean, that s/he thinks you need drugs (and as a naturopath, s/he cannot prescribe you drugs?).
My naturopath had a whole pallette of alternative treatments (herbs, homeopathy, devices....), so she didn't need to send me to someone else for drugs.
My MD, who could prescribe me drugs, never really did give me drugs (unless I asked him to).
There are MANY anti microbials that are not drugs, and through ART, you can test which are the good ones, in which combination, which dosage you need, to get rid of babs or anything else. (even if you need constant change of remedies...)
Would I have believed that all BEFORE? NO WAY.
Before lyme and ART, in no way I believed that my brain could be blocking my own healing!!
Only when I could test myself and kept receiving those crazy answers, on and on, repeatedly, against what I actually THOUGHT (or thought I thought....) that I started to believe.
How could I get opposite answers to what I think I believed?
Then I treated the psycho blockade with PK (psychokinesiolgy after dr. K) and you feel like a veil going out, a sort of relief that is impossible to describe. Then you know, it HAD BEEN true, but ... how could I had known that before the actual healing took place?
------------------------------------ Energy testing opened a whole world for me, of amazement, and of possibilities, and hope.
As a 'scholar' with a PhD, trained by 'scientific methods', I have to say, it was almost like an 'enlightment' to me!
Really, I own my life to it (as I was way too sick...) and I do think my daughter owes greatly to it too.
If I hadn't got lyme, and if I weren't in BIG need for some miracle, well, I would have NEVER tried this way, as it felt too out of whack.
Today, I accept that as the air I breathe. I use it EVERY DAY for more than a decade.
I don't even know how you guys can get out of a BAD chronic lyme WITHOUT energy tests.
It's such an entangled puzzle, varying individually, and still changing in time, circumstances, that I can't see how could I have gone out of lyme without that big help from energy testing.
Once you FIND the puzzle, you STILL have to find the treatment. And believe me, the treatment is never too obvious.
Having said that all, I know now many pracitioners doing energy testing, and FOR SURE, not all are good.
Energy testing is JUST one tool, like a ruler is a tool for an architect: the ruler doesn't MAKE a good architect, as much as ART or ENERGY TESTING does NOT make a good practitioner.
Catgirl
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posted
I'd listen to your ND Marz. You can see from Brussels' post all the detail that a good ART practitioner picks up. Stuff that someone who just muscle tests or uses kinesiology does not. She's right about all of it.
There are so many forms of babs, some subtle, some bad, and the best way to identify them (not the main two blood tests that docs test for) is through some form of energy testing.
Also, thoughts matter. Emotions matter. False beliefs matter (how do you know it's true?). What you think is going on and what you tell yourself matters. What you've been fed by our society and the medical system matters especially if you believe or rely upon it. How you feel matters. All can affect your ability to get better.
Blood tests miss stuff more often than they find it. Science is WAY too far behind on lyme and company. IMO energy testing rules over any blood test, hands down. Babs hides so well that some people have died from it because modern medicine has no clue people have it.
Why does this happen? Because society has been forced to believe that evidence based medicine rules. It does not, and those who have sought out the alternatives know it right down to their core. Why? Because they slowly unravel the layers and get better. We are energy beings. The bugs are energy beings. Ignoring this is a risk.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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Marz
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The reason I question is the lack of classic symptoms I have I guess.
She has trained under one of Dr K's people I think.
I saw her first last January and she did thorough testing which did not show babesia then--or mycoplasma p. which she now finds.
She's given me biocidin LSF, artemisin solo, olivirex and itires. I haven't been taking them at full dose yet.
She had these sent to me and didn't have them in her office to test.
She mentions that it takes at least 6 months to get rid of babs and I think she meant I might want to see LLMD in case LLMD thinks I should get something like mepron. I really don't want to do mepron.
I've read some "experts" say you can't knock out babs on herbs alone and they're good for after Rx meds to keep it away for good. Maybe that's what she has in mind?
I've watched videos and tried testing things on myself in the past, but dont get consistent results.
Feeling pretty awful today. Am suspicious the biocidin or artemisin solo is giving me insomnia even on a zolpidem.
**editing out doctor's name**
[ 12-04-2016, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
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dbpei
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It is so hard with tick borne illness (chronic form) because we feel worse before we feel better as we are being treated. We have so much uncertainty, wondering whether our illness is progressing or whether we are herxing before we improve. I totally relate to your question.
I hope you get some relief soon. I know of someone on lymenet who has had great success with a well respected doctor who practices ART. BCB1200 Hopefully he will chime in.
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bcb1200
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I'm here.
I think ART and AK are both great, depending on the practitioner. I know folks out in the pacific northwest who see Dr. K and they are doing great. I have another friend who was cured by an AK doc here in NYC after 5 miserable years where no Ilads / Burrascano doc could help.
So it can/does work as long as the questions are correct.
I've seen an AK doc since March and she dug me out of a deep, dark pit. For me, she hasn't been the smoking gun that has gotten me well. But she has been a major reason why I'm improved this year and in making me feel "Normal" again and having life go back to "normal", too.
In my case, it seems mold is a bit part of my overall illness and we are digging into that. My LLMD found that, but my AK doc confirmed it.
Definitely give ART a try.
-------------------- Bite date ? 2/10 symptoms began 5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors
IgM Igenex +/CDC + + 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93
Currently on:
Currently at around 95% +/- most days. Posts: 3134 | From Massachusetts | Registered: May 2010
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Marz
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Wouldn't babesia have shown up way back in January when I saw her the first time and she checked me for all the co-infections.
I understand that different bugs present their symptoms at different times, but it seems they would show up in muscle testing if they were there since I was bitten.
That's why I question this.
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MichaelTampa
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quote:Originally posted by Marz: I understand that different bugs present their symptoms at different times, but it seems they would show up in muscle testing if they were there since I was bitten.
From what I have heard, from docs I have had, this is not always the case.
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sparkle7
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I've never had muscle testing since I haven't had much money for it. I do my own dowsing which is similar. From my experience, there are "blind spots" that can happen. It may be due to the practitioner or the person being tested.
I also think that different things affect us at different times. One pathogen or symptom may need to be treated prior to treating other things. This may skew the impression of the "test".
Since I do my own dowsing, I know it's not 100% but it's been really helpful. It's hard to be completely objective when doing a test. We all have things that can block an accurate answer on the patient's side or the practitioner's. We all have fears, biases, etc.
That said - it's been very a valuable tool for me. Lab tests are not all that accurate, either.
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Marz
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This LLND doesn't test by asking questions. She holds a vial of the pathogen in her hand and pushes on my raised arm when I'm lying down with a rod in my hand.
It's not a real pathogen though but supposed to be identical in its energy if I understand that right. They're not allowed to use the real thing in the US, unlike Europe.
I guess there are different kinds of testing.
I'm not sure that asking myself the question would be a good idea. I cant make up my mind lately! lol.
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Brussels
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Marz, just give the naturopath a try.
I was very ill, as I said above. Both ART practitioners were very good, in different ways.
When I learned the tests, I did that at home, daily, many times a day, even.
That is how I nailed babesia: with herbs changing EVERY SINGLE DAMN DAY!!!
It's an amazing pathogen, that adapts almost immediately to the new herbal combination, and then fight back, evading the antimicrobials. It takes really ONE day to adapt to the new guns I introduced.
If I only had followed my practitioners, it would have taken me probably a year or more to get rid of babesia.
Because I kept doing it at home, every 2 weeks my WHOLE TREATMENT PLAN changed COMPLETELY. Except for supportive stuff (like binders, minerals, omega 3...), everything else that HAD TO DO with KILLING babesia had practically totally changed in about 2 weeks interval.
It was totally possible to get rid of babs with herbs, but what a work it was.
You can read here in lymenet what I did back then, but it won't work for other people, as it is unfortunately, totally individual ...
...(the measure of herbs, the combination, and THE CONTINUOUS CHANGE so that YOU evade babesia, and not the opposite, ...
....and the MASSIVE amounts of binders you have to keep ingesting, because toxins are THE main gun of babesia against our immune systems).
If the naturopath is good, and you have the means to pay and go there, I would go EVERY WEEK to him/ her. At least, to tune the babs treatment. It took me 'JUST' about 2 months, if my memory is good.
But it was the most crazy experience of my life, because of the way critters kept evading my treatment SO FAST.
How can they be so smart, was my daily question.
------------------------------------------------
As for pathogen testing with kinesiology of any means, there are many ways.
Dr. K. uses slides with photos of pathogens, and he uses homeopathic nosodes that had ORIGINALLY original bacteria (but due to dilution there is barely or next to NONE 'chemical' molecules any longer...).
Whether you can get all pathogens with such method: no.
First, there are potencies and dilutions: dr. W uses 10 different nosodes of the same pathogen (Bb) at first, to understand in which stage of infection you are.
Some Bb nosodes will test positive, while others not. All are Bb nosodes, if you see what I mean.
----------------------------------------------- Sanum usually uses one main dilution called D6 (in the US it would be a 6X) to test most infections. But do they get them all: no!
I was obsessed with finding pathogens in the first years of treating chronic infections.
It is still a bit useful, but the problem is that when you find 10, 20, 30, 50 active pathogens, or more, what do you do with that information?
I realized that when you find less than 5 active pathogens, the info may be useful to research for anti-microbials.
But when the number raises to more than 10, it becomes almost useless.
The question changes from 'what do I do to kill each pathogen?' to...
...'What do I do to reinforce my immune system, so that I become a lesser breeding place for them?'
In the beginning of my ART visits, I was upset practitioners didn't keep testing me for individual pathogens all the time, as I thought that was the most important thing they should be doing.
When I learned to test myself and saw that I was a lost case, as in a certain moment, I could find more than 50 active pathogen eating my body up, well...
I cooled down on that pathogen-hunt, and went into another strategy: how do I get out of hell?
Having said that, I do think we have to look into main tick born pathogens, one by one, until they are all dormant, and if you suffer from one chronic infection in the sinuses, lungs, candida, herpes, mononucleosis, etc, you got also to look at them individually too, go for individual battles...
.. but never forgetting that what matters most is to build up your defenses for a long term benefit.
Only that long term strategy will save you a lot of work in the next tick bite, or infected mosquito bite, or sexual relation with an infected partner...
It's NOT the anti-microbials.
Everything is so complex, and almost more art than science. A lot of gut feeling helps TONS!
If you feel some changes with the new practitioner, I would go for it, and continue working at home or with other practitioners to build my defenses, rebuild my body.
the practitioner can help you to keep on battling babesia, changing your treatment often. When babesia goes down, you can just see the practitioner once a month.
Just to nail babs, you need a boosting in energy testing, in my opinion.
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Catgirl
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Wow, I'm really not trying to KA but Brussels' post is awesome! If any newbies see her post, re read it at least 15 times. Print it and put it on your fridge (lyme makes people forget/short term memory thing).
Brussels said:
...'What do I do to reinforce my immune system, so that I become a lesser breeding place for them?'...
That is huge and I think so over looked. IMO, people can't just focus on kill mode, they have to do everything she said: support the body, energy test, mop up the toxins, detox, rest, and start all over again. It's a lot of work, but energy is where it's at.
Marz, if babesia was not moving or active back in Jan, that is why it was missed. It's as simple as that. It must be moving or active or an issue for you at that specific moment when you were energy tested. That's how it works.
You could have walked out of her office and 5 minutes later it could have been active again even with no symptoms. It must be moving or "on top" for a positive energy diagnosis. So don't dismiss what your doc says. I'd go with it if I were you.
Look at how Brussels had to energetically test throughout the day every day. That is how it works. These things change from one minute to the next. That is why she was successful. She knew and knows how to test, she used a ton of binders and some very specific supplements that she energetically tested as useful to her at that moment in time.
I muscle test all the time. It is all in the questions you ask. Heavy metals can screw up your results. So can toxins. So can anxiety. Always start out asking to see your yes and your no (every time you test. When your yes/no changes you know something is going on. Metals make me go in reverse. I need to clear the energy flow they enacted and wham, I start flowing normally again (it doesn't take long).
Brussels is right it is so complex and it definitely is more of an art than a science.
All this said, I have several forms of babs and a bevy of other bugs. My case is complex, but I work on whatever pops up day to day. I actually feel good though. I manage my symptoms and get other forms of energy healing (reiki, etc).
I strongly encourage everyone to learn energy testing. Buy books on it, watch you tubes, take classes, ask people in support groups. Learn the world of energy because we are energy beings. Energetic testing is just the start of it. There is so much more.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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WPinVA
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This has been a really interesting thread. I would just add to ask yourself if you don't trust energy testing or if you don't have a good feeling about this practitioner. If it's the practioner, than try someone else!
Like I said, I'm new to energy testing but I'm going with it. Surprisingly, I ran it by my conventional dentist and he's totally into it too! He thinks it makes a ton of sense. Explained it to me in a way that really clicked (and I'd relay it if I had't forgotten the details... thanks brain fog). He just wasn't going to go there until I brought it up. ; )
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Marz
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When I saw this naturopath--and she has been ILADS trained--I liked that she was doing the ART as well as helping with nutrition.
She has helped so much already with nutrition and hormone testing and supplements. Plus she's just a wonderful person.
And the fact that she suggested I see my LLMD in case I should need a RX means that she has confidence that's she's not just making this up.
So what I've learned from some of you is that I need to learn how to test the things she's given me. I've tried this in the past and didn't same results with each try.
I know that babesia gets resistent to things if taken long term so maybe daily testing is the answer?
I appreciate all your thoughts and help!
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Catgirl
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quote:Originally posted by Marz:
So what I've learned from some of you is that I need to learn how to test the things she's given me.
I'm just saying muscle testing is a wonderful tool. IMO, it's an awesome tool. I would take what she suggests, not question it. I would also learn how to test for other things. Test everything. Will this food benefit me? There are so many questions you can ask. You might also ask your ND to show you how to muscle test, what to ask, etc.
When I first started out I went to health food stores and tested stuff there. I still do that and find new things that work for me. The door is open for anyone to walk through.
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Brussels
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thanks for the support, Catgirl!
-------------- You know, Marz, how can you learn energy testing now and already use for babesia?
The fastest way is to go AT LEAST twice a month to see the lady, then she would do that testing for you.
While you are being treated for babesia, you can still learn how to muscle test, or whatever test, but some people take longer to learn.
Besides, too ill people cannot test (the ANS is bananas, broken, so you need a whole course of dr. K just to learn how to 'open the regulation', so that your muscle tests will start finally working).
It's not that simple, but once you feel better, the ANS usually gets healthier too, and then any tests you do start working. But it takes some time.
Just take what she asks you. If you have problems, call her and tell.
Then PARALLEL, you can try learning anything new, like muscle tests. Even if you learn it TODAY, how can you trust this is working?
When I tested my own herbs, I had some time of experience with energy testing (not too much though).
But I was seeing 2 practitioners, not one, both testing me with ART, as I said above, so I could come back to them for a RE-tuning of herbs.
the daily testing made me realize critters do react to treatment, adapt, then fight back. I usually changed the amount of herbs in a couple of days, until they didn't test any longer.
So I had to take one herb off, add another in place. It kept changing (amount), then again, new change. I added frequencies (I had a TENS machine with rife frequencies) that I also kept testing.
and as herxes were MASSIVE because I really got the best tuning with antimicrobials this way, well, I had to tune my binders, or I was stranded home, with horrible nightmares 24hrs.
So it was a full time job, not only antimicrobials kept changing daily, but the type and amount of herx-toxins too.
What made me know I was going the good way, was that symptoms kept changing (almost always, that is a good sign), really, daily, because babesia was changing, trying to evade from my treatment.
Before it gives the last cry, it screams! So it's like you are having a big RELAPSE. But I kept muscle testing, and asking, am I winning?
Is babesia getting strong? Is it getting weak?
I got that I was winning, despite the fact that I 'thought' I was losing again. Some pathogens, before they give their last breath, they will OVERREACT in a way that is awesome.
The same way that we would do, to fight these critters when we feel they are taking our lives away: if we want to fight back, we will give our best, until the end, right?
So they do! The last battle can be amazingly violent. Massive herxes et al.
What kept me going was not my mind. It was simply that I had to test my own muscle tests: are they actually working? I followed what I got as answer, even if my brain, my feelings were not sure. It did work, fortunately.
So it took me about 2 months, but it was a crazy experience. If I had to wait practitioners to change the protocol 60 times, and I was seeing them just once a month, you can count how long it would have lasted...
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