Brussels
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Crazy celery experiment, made me lose 3 hours this morning in the limbo.
After re-reading the new Celery book from Anthony William, I came to realize that celery is a biofilm breaker.
Anthony does not employ the word 'biofilm' in the book but he explains that celery juice goes in the gut (small intestine) and dissolves the mucus there (that was built up from oils we eat).
When it dissolves the mucus, it uncovers many bacteria hidden behind that mucus, so that celery can then finally reach the bacteria directly and kill them. So he says.
Well, to my understanding, that is the definition of biofilm: mucus, thick mucus, sometimes very hard even, that is build up by bacteria (good and bad bacteria do that) so that they are protected from the microbiome and from the immune system of the host.
Dr. K. says some biofilms cannot even be cut with a knife on a board in a lab, so hard they are!!!
These microbes have evolved for so long, so they DO know how to build good castles of protection for their survival - biofilms.
Behind these biofilms, colonies of 'good' and 'bad' bacteria can develop in peace, so to say.
Biofilms are extremely common in nature:
- the water in a vase with flowers will have biofilms floating after a couple of days
- dental plaque IS biofilm protecting streptococcus and other bacteria against our teeth-brushing or other foods / water that may wash them off. Inside the plaque, they can work with less disturbance and eat up our teeth.
- when you get a cold, and you got all that mucus coming out from nose and throat, great part is biofilm, other part I think are debris from the fight between our immune cells and the pathogens (the garbage that needs to be flushed off, with dead corpses of both pathogens and our immune cells).
- the gut has a lot of mucus due to pathogenic and friendly bacteria
- liver has mucus from bacteria trying to protect themselves against the liver immune system (this info is from Anthony),
Etc
Anthony describes such protective mucus as being ACID and built with rancid oils, which somehow seems to make up for what is known as 'biofilms' in science (to my understanding).
Ex: dental plaque is hard to be washed out and it is very acid.
The acid will 'eat up' the minerals in the teeth (bones are alcaline), breaking it so that bacteria such as strep can come in and feast in our teeth.
He suggested to swish the mouth with celery before swallowing it, to treat the cavity. Or to gargle with celery if you have throat infections, tonsil problems, etc.
Celery is a biofilm breaker AND a disinfectant (anti-bacterial, anti-viral), he says.
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Brussels
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So the GENIUS in me said: why not then dripping some drops of celery juice inside my nostrils, like sniffing drugs?
I suffer from left side sinus dull pain for almost 2 decades (since lyme disease, that made me lose teeth and then I got one tooth that messed with my left sinuses).
It is is MUCH better today, but I get mild pains there, on and off. .
I have no cold, my nostrils were totally open, no nose allergy for the moment, so that's a good experiment day!
WRONG!!!
I put about 10 drops of celery juice in both nostrils and they clogged up almost immediately with very thick mucus.
Where was it coming from?
I could not drink, nor eat for hours, as my nose was COMPLETELY STUCK for HOURS.
I kept trying to clean the mucus out, but as it was so thick, I could barely do that.
I felt like blowing my brains out. I had to breathe by the mouth, so it stole my whole morning.
I had no energy to do anything, not even eat.
My eyes got red (probably from celery squeezing through the sinuses to the eyes), probably killing some stuff there too, it's been 6 hours since my 10 drops of celery in my nose and my nostrils are still partially stuck.
My explanation is: celery is a POTENT biofilm breaker, it went to my sinuses and dissolved old dry mucus (biofilm) there, made it sort of 'liquid', and then I could blow it off, slowly.
I'll do it again, but this time I'll be smarter: only one side at a time!!!!
The right side, that I thought was HEALTHY, well, was also FULL of mucus, and as stuck as the left side.
I had a friend that had chronic sinusitis (I don't) and she got so much facial pains, and head pains that the doctors told her, she's got DRY mucus inside that need SURGERY to clear out.
She did an awful surgery, but of course, it never solved the problem for complete, and it does not solve the cause of the problem either...
So I suspect that using celery in less amounts could prevent this kind of surgery??!
I'm NOT recommending that to anyone, but if you'd like to see what is a POTENT biofilm breaker in action, just put ONE DROP of celery juice on one nostril and see for yourself!!!
But don't blame me!! I warned you!!
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Brussels
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UPDATE Day 2 morning - on celery drops experiment:
Yesterday evening, after I wrote this, I tried more 5 drops on my left nostril only, once it re-opened after hours being blocked...
More mucus came out, it blocked again but less than in the morning, but I got a BIG CRASH from adrenal fatigue.
So my morning crash was not ONLY due to lack of nose breathing, but also from a HERXHEIMER reaction (die-off reaction).
I could breathe partially from one side, but still, fatigue came and all I could do was sit and then I had to sleep. So these 5 drops on ONE nostril put me to bed for 2 hours.
Once I woke up, I felt better.
So today morning, I somehow feel my face (sinuses) lighter.
As it's Sunday, I can afford another crash, so I decided to do both sides again (not recommending that again, it's just my own experiment).
So I put a lot on each side (maybe 20 drops each nostril), while breathing in.
The drops fall in the throat, you actually feel the taste of celery somehow (a bit).
But then, my right ear made a noise, like sand was inside it, and boy, it started ITCHING like hell.
But the itch is soooo deep inside the ear canal, that I could not reach it. It was a MAD itching.
I again got unsettled, and decided to pour 2-3 drops in the ear. ANYTHING to stop that itching!
About 1 hour later, I'm still itching, but better than at start. It's bearable. I continued pouring some celery juice in the nostril, to attack that inner ear problem....
I continue to pour mucus from both nostrils, but it's much better than yesterday, much lighter, less thick.
And I'm able to breathe normally. And so far, no crash.
I kept a tiny jam jar (the ones we get in the airplane) with bits of celery juice inside, and I'll continue dripping it in the nose and ears during the day.
I start to think that this celery is THE medicine for a cold or flu. If I catch a cold, I'll pour some drops inside my nostrils for sure, 2, 3 times a day, to attack the invading viruses from start.
My eyes are not red today, but they do feel funny.
All the pathways nose - ear canals - throat - sinuses - eyes are connected and you actually feel the celery juice working on all that.
It's a bit irritating to the inner skin / mucosa (I can see how RED my nose is from INSIDE).
But I'm rubbing the celery on skin too, and the skin reacts ZERO to it (no redness, not even on the face).
So I suppose the inner nose is reacting because it's got mucus and the celery is breaking it apart (as it's a biofilm-breaker).
If you'd like to try this, just know that it's not too easy, as you may react in your eyes, throat, sinuses and ears at the same time. And still get a crash, from the die-off effect.
Choose a weekend to do that!!😀 ------------------------------
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Brussels
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UPDATE Day 2 afternoon - Another crash with ear pain.
Just an hour crash, but the pain was rather intense (it's still here).
My right ear, that was itching in the morning, started to be painful after more nasal celery drops + 1 drop in the ear after lunch.
I thought my right side sinuses were healthy, but I guess they weren't.
I don't remember having ear pain since childhood, so if you got problems in sinuses, ears etc, start very slow with that, because the pain is not fun...
The left side feels nothing (my most sick side), only a bit lighter in the sinuses. It looks like I'm not treating it even.
The right side (my healthy side) feels like an ear infection pain + upper or lower teeth pain + nerve jaw pain (tirgeminal nerve?) + back throat pain + dull headache + facial pain (sinuses).
It feels like the ear pain is gone all over my right side, affecting the nerves, causing the dull headache.
Due to pain, I crashed again now, for about 1 hour. Now the pain is down to 30-40% and I'm back on my feet.
I think the drops in the nose in the afternoon caused all that, it's not the single drop in the ear that did that.
The celery is probably cleaning some old deposits of infection + mucus / biofilm, that I could NEVER suspect I had (not at the right side, not in the ear).
If you got chronic ear pain, jaw pain, trigeminal neuralgia, back teeth pain, start very slow.
I didn't have any of these problems (apparently) but I have been going through a rough time, detoxing these areas...
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Brussels
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I just copy-pasted the posts I wrote in the forum of Anthony William.
I feel okay now, almost no pain, but these few drops of celery in my nostrils did knock me down.
And I'm amazed to see what they do to dry mucus (I had ZERO mucus before I put the first drop there). So I thought...
The crashes I got were very real, so I do think these drops are doing something.
it was the most spectacular experience I had concerning biofilms, because I could actually see what it was doing, in a matter of minutes.
Not recommending that, but if you'd like to try, just do it slow, and on one nostril. You may be surprised!
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Brussels
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In the book Celery, Anthony describes how celery juice travels in the small intestine clearing the mucus first, then attacking the bacteria under the mucus.
You need to drink at least 16 oz to see good results, even more to feel it acts all over the body (liver, blood, brain etc).
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Keebler
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- There are risks with shooting any vegetable juice directly into our sinuses.
Readers, Please do not do this. There are better ways.
. . . Xylitol has no antibacterial properties of its own; rather, it appears to enhance the body's own innate immunity.
Xylitol has anti-adhesive effects on micro-organisms
like Streptococcus pneumoniae and Streptococcus mutans, inhibiting their growth. Xylitol has already been used for preventing otitis media, rhinosinusitis and dental caries. . . . -
[ 06-05-2019, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Very interesting, I wrote to a friend about your one person experiment. She also has one side of her sinuses chronically plugged.
I always heard not to put anything in the ear. So, I'm a little bit leery about the benefits of doing that.
Thank you for sharing.
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Brussels
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The thing is I had practically no sinus pains, no blocked nose for years (only when I catch a cold, they get blocked).
During lyme I lost a couple of teeth to severe ROOT infections. Really bad. The tooth leaked super acid liquids through my left nostril for 2-3days, until I could go to the dentist.
Since then (possibly 13-14 years ago), my left cheekbone got pains, on and off, that I treated in various ways. Last years, it got much better, so pain was down to zero most of the times, I just felt a bit of an annoyance there from times to times.
So theoretically, I had no sinus problems, no blocked nose, nothing when I dripped celery juice inside.
THEN I got that awful reaction and realized, I had dried mucus in both sides.
That meant, I had chronic sinus infections even though I got no symptoms, no blocked nose, no pain .
What I didn't know is that my inner ear was also infected, with something chronic. I don't even REMEMBER having ear pain in my life (probably during childhood).
The experiment was interesting because it showed me how many hidden chronic infections we have, even if we are symptomless.
Yesterday, I could put drops of celery 3 -4 x a day, and I only get a liquid mucus coming out, BUT my tinnitus got very strong.
I do think I start to reach the origin of that tinnitus (mine was super mild since lyme went away). During lyme it was bad, many types of sounds, in higher intensitiy.
After lyme, I could barely hear the sounds. Until my celery nose drop experiment. By day 3, it got very high.
I suspect I'm treating some sort of inner ear inflammation through the nostril. I'm not sure dripping stuff in my ears reached the innermost part of the ear.
It reactivated something there, by taking off biofilms (?). That's my guess. Today I'm making a pause.
my whole neck is relaxed, like I got a deep massage. I think somehow what I treated was an interference field (either the left side tooth, or the inner ear). But that's another subject!
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map1131
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Brussels, I had prior to Lyme had sinus infections every spring and fall. After Lyme no issues with sinuses.
Or so I thought. I've been losing teeth to horrible decay for the last 5 yrs. Not because I was neglectful.
Well I recently had MRI of brain because from the neck down, I'm really good. But my brain wasn't clearing.
Sure enough there is lesions on the brain. But the MRI also caught infections in my upper sinuses.
So my tooth decay, ear issues, brain issues and eye issues that become front and center the last 18 mths....I know is left to treat.
Last month my Naturopath/w biofeedback had to go deep to discover some bad guys in my jaw and teeth.
Actinomycosis Pseuodomonas Staph Strep
I've been rifing for these and it has really stirred up a hornet's nest in my head. But this celery juice sounds very interesting to me.
Thanks for the info.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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Brussels
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Pam, sorry to know you're still fighting tooth issues...
All of my bigger problems started during lyme, and I ended up losing many teeth to deep root infections (jawbone infections).
Now they stopped to cause me big problems.
The celery book describes celery as a biofilm breaker (even though Anthony does not use that term exactly, but he only says it dissolves the mucus, which i can confirm it's very TRUE!!).
It also describes celery as a potent antimicrobial, a disinfectant. You can use it on skin, on a cold sore, on lips, etc and see for yourself.
Even mouth wounds, just swish the mouth with it, they heal MUCH faster.
That's why I decided to try in my nostrils, to see if I could reach the spot where the infected tooth once was. And boy, it did reach that and other spots!!
It's all connected: the trigeminal nerve, the jaw muscles, the back molars, the inner ear, the eyes and the sinuses!!!
If you do the crazy experiment, just do few drops and only on ONE SIDE, or you'll block both airways and then you can't eat or drink (like it happened to me for 3 hours!!!).
I'm having a whole body reaction with this experiment. A whole body, truly, like a BIG weight came out of my back.
But it knocked me down again, today, day 4.
Today I went to wash my hair and had to put my head upside down in the bathtube. I usually had water running from my nostrils the moment I put my head upside down.
today, NIL!!! No water, nothing!!!
I thought everyone had water dripping from the nose if the head got upside down!!!?
but I was wrong: what I had was a chronic active infection the whole time. For 10 , 20 or more years??
What I remember today was that during my 20s, I did yoga and stayed upside down, and I think my nose did not get blocked. But in the last 10 years, for sure, it did get blocked with 'clear' water that I thought came from my eyes...
But no, they came from a chronic sinus infection.
And today I'm getting a strong tinnitus on my right side, meaning, something got stirred there too, just because of celery juice drops in my nostrils...
Go figure. This is a potent biofilm breaker and possibly a potent antimicrobial too.
It cleared my watery nose of one decade or more (since lyme, at least) in 3 days!!!!!
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Keebler
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- There are other ways to address issues with safe ingredients.
First, the vessel / utensils in our kitchen are not without certain microbes that we might be fine ingesting and sending on to our stomach acid.
Even water used for a neti pot must be first boiled, cooled before using as a sinus rinse. Even then, there have been deaths, literally, from using a neti pot, even when it was thought to first be clean.
Just two of many other reasons not to squirt celery juice up one's nose:
1) various bad-boy microbes can be on or in it &
2) there are some plant toxins that could damage the delicate sinus / nasal tissue. Oxalates are just one category of plant irritant that can be present.
Heating the liquid cannot destroy the oxalates. They are sharp, needle like crystals that can lodge anywhere in the body.
Some folks do better than others with the normal way one should consume food - through the GI tract.
Oxalates do not belong up one's nose. A lot of damage may occur.
Celery is HOX (high oxalate) -
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Keebler
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- If water needs to be sterile prior to using as a nasal irrigation, it just seems common sense that anything else we shoot up our noses should be, too.
Still, under no circumstance should celery juice be put up one's nose.
Brain-eating amoeba death highlights importance of safe neti pot use
American Pharmacists Association - Jan. 8, 2019
. . . sterile or distilled water . . . .
. . . Use of safe water is imperative. The Seattle woman who died was using tap water run through a Brita filter.
FDA recommends that neti pot users boil tap water for 3 to 5 minutes and then cool to lukewarm before using . . . .
. . . " FDA recommends that boiled and cooled water can be stored and safely used within 24 hours" . . . .
[poster's note: BUT - if the vessel used for that water is not sterile, that could pose a risk.] -
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Brussels
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Thank you for your concern, Keebler, but it does not really work people who swim.
If you swim like I do, in rivers, lakes, swimming pools and sea, your theory of dangerous things to put in your nose would go down the drain.
Anything theoretically could be infected in food, air and water, you're right.
But if I think about that, I wouldn't be able to even breathe, because the air is full of pathogens.
Or go swimming, as when you do, your ears, eyes, nose, mouth, everything is not only in contact with the water, but you actually inhale, drink, sniff all that in great amounts.
The sterilization advice is wise if you want to live in a bubble, inside a bunker, without contact with anything else than a sterilized air, water and food.
It does not fit my lifestyle.
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Keebler
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- One would still not want to be shooting OXALATES up into sinus / nasal passages nor introduce potential pathogens that need not set up shop. There are much safer options. -
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Brussels
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Have you read many of Buhner books? I suppose not, because Buhner explains clearly that a herbal plant has hundreds if not thousands of chemical components.
While research will analyze one, two, a few isolate components, Buhner says, our science has no tools to analyze thousands of chemical components and how they work synergistically.
If you isolate a chemical compound in cats claw, and it comes out it has cancerigenous potential, it means nothing, he says, because the high intelligent plant factories will have made many other anti-cancerous components to cancel that effect.
And that happens not to ONE HERB, but to all herbs that have been used as medicine in our history. And to foods and vegetables too.
Buhner shows a multitude of examples, papers on that, but as always, I don't think many read his books well.
Regarding oxalates: there are oxalates in EVERY SINGLE fruit and vegetable on the planet.
Oxalates in plums are different from oxalates in cheese.
Yes, cheese has oxalates.
Oxalates in herbs come together with healing phytochemicals, vitamins, minerals.
what Anthony writes is almost word by word what I read in Buhner's books in the past:
"The vast array of nutrients in the so-called high-oxalate leafy greens and celery are some of the most beneficial available to us. Fruits, vegetables, leafy greens and herbs contain anti-oxalates that prevent oxalates from causing the damage that current trends tell us they cause".
"Oxalates are widespread, whether we like it or not. So are anti-oxalates."
The common belief is that foods high in oxalates produce kidney stones and gall stones. It's not oxalates causing high uric acid in the kidneys, but proteins that create kidney stones and gout by bogging down the liver.
People are healing from kidney stones with celery juice, instead!
People are afraid of spinach for the same oxalate reason, while spinach is known as a super healing food for ages.
Please refer back to Buhner and read his books for once at least: healing herbs (celery is not a vegetable, but a herb) have many anti-chemical compounds that act synergistically so that the plant's active chemicals can heal different people with different conditions, without damaging them.
Otherwise there would be no single FOOD that would be totally safe, if we keep cutting down each of its chemical and seeing what each of these chemicals are doing.
Alone, they can do harm, but not in the whole plant.
It's not only Anthony saying that, but Buhner says that in many of his books.
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Keebler
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- It's a very different thing to ingest through the GI tract a food than shooting it up one's nose. It's dangerous and irresponsible to suggest that others try this. -
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Brussels
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Taking something through the nose is not only possible, but it is a common medical procedure when patient cannot eat through the mouth.
They simply feed a tube through the nose and let the LIQUID food pass to their stomachs.
If you swim anywhere, you'll know that when you 'drink' water from the nose accidentally, it won't end up in the brain miraculously or in your lungs necessarily, but it simply goes down the throat to the stomach, exactly like your food and drink.
The same way you can breath through your mouth instead of the nose, and the air finds its way to your lungs instead of your stomach, well you can drink through your nose instead your mouth, and the drink will fall in your stomach, not in your lungs!
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Brussels
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Water from the swimming pool: with chlorine, sweat, saliva of swimmers, with bacterial rests of wounds from skins, vaginal liquids, pee from kids, nose mucus from every single swimmer who stepped in that water, hair, viral warts etc.
People still go swimming in swimming pools, and drink that water accidentally, and that water goes through eyes, NOSE, ears and their skin wounds, and that is not irresponsible and dangerous because everyone is doing that, swimming in swimming pools.
Go to a lake, full of bacteria, algae, fungi, parasites, fecal matter from all sorts of animals living there, dead cadaver pieces in decomposition with all the pathogenic bacteria, ...
.... rests of gasoline / petrol from boats, industrial garbage, pesticides and all agricultural products leaked in that water, oils used in engines etc and you do the same: ...
...you swim there, and that water goes through your lungs, NOSE, mouth, eyes and fine, is that a dangerous and irresponsible activity?
But suddenly, if you add a drop of water or juice inside your nose, and it becomes life-threatening, while everyone who swims take even gulps of THAT type of water through the nose and all other openings of the body!!!?
Of course, people can get sick from swimming anywhere, but well, you can get sick by breathing anything anywhere, even in a bunkered home with filtered air.
I wonder if you guys never swim?? You never drank water through your nose while swimming??
I mean, THAT dirty water from the sea, lakes and even worse, the swimming pool?
If you never swum, you never drunk water from your nose.
If you swam just once in your life, you ingested all that dirty water through your nose, yes, .... and through the eyes, yes, .... and through the mouth, yes, and that water went deep into your ear canals, and seeped through every wound you had on your skin through your lymph and blood.
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Brussels
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Ancient yogis have been cleaning the nose with the neti pot with water or salty solutions for thousands of years in India.
They simply put the water through one nostril and let it drip to the other.
They have been doing that MUCH before sterilization was even known, much before Western civilization discovered 'science'.
If you ever tried to learn that neti pot, like millions of Indians already did since ancient history, you'll probably have drunk quite some water through your nose trying to learn it.
The West has been learning with them and now Mayo Clinic is RECOMMENDING nose wash with salty water.
Brussels
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The same way not everyone sterilizes drinking water, boiling it to drink it, the same way we may choose not to sterilize whatever goes through nasal passages.
If you swim, you know it's impossible - how to sterilize the whole swimming pool??
Of course you can - theoretically - as you can drink sterilized water, if you wish.
However, babies drink juices from fruits, infants too.
Do parents sterilize the juice? Some of them do, I never did, because you lose the main nutrients in fruits.
If the water in plants were contaminated from INSIDE with bacteria, the plant would be also sick.
And we were never going to be able to drink any juice, eat any raw fruits or eat raw salads.
Certainly, not give fruit juices to infants.
You can theoretically drink whole bottles of water through the nose, and the water will fall inside your throat down to the stomach.
Exactly like you can breathe through the mouth and the air goes to your lungs NOT to your stomach.
Whatever life threatening situation you think putting things like food and water through your nose means, think about the millions of Indians washing their nostrils with the neti pot since yogis existed and...
...think about babies drinking fruit juices.
Or simply think about ANYONE who EVER swum in their lives.
The only difference to take a juice through your nose and your mouth, is that the mouth offers saliva to start digesting it, while the nose does not.
If you take 1 liter of juice through your mouth or nose, both will end up in your stomach.
If you don't want to drink the celery juice through the nose, just use it in the neti pot.
It will go from one side to the other and leave your body instead of falling in your stomach.
Celery is salty and it will work better than the salty water, because it has enzymes that break biofilm, while salty water will only have the salt to dissolve biofilms.
A Russian friend told me now that in Russia, a common medicine for babies with stuck nose is drops of beet juice (squeezed beet) inside the nose: the enzymes open the mucus almost immediately, allowing BABIES to breathe.
How dangerous that can be, that it became an overall practice among the population??
The danger is exactly the same danger as drinking fresh squeezed fruit juices without sterilization.
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Keebler
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- Quote: "The danger is exactly the same danger as drinking fresh squeezed fruit juices without sterilization." end quote.
No, it is not. You're talking about shooting celery juice up one's nose. That is very different than ingesting it.
It's not just the matter of being sterile, there are elements in vegetable or fruit juices that can irritate the nasal passages.
And some of the plant matter may leave residue behind that could contribute to infection.
The nasal passages are not the place to put our food, even if in juice form.
Most of us have inhaled water when swimming in various kinds of water and most of us have choked or laughed and had a beverage pour out of our nose. Generally, that's just once in a while and we just go on.
As for swimming water, though when we get a big push of water far into the sinuses, it usually works out
but sometimes that can create the need for a gentle medicinal nasal spray or even more assertive treatment at times if a sinus infection develops. A brain infection can also develop, depending upon circumstances. Not that this happens all the time, of course, yet it's important to be aware.
Overall, though, regularly (as some kind of treatment) shooting celery juice up the nose can be an invitation for irritation and infection. -
[ 06-10-2019, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Brussels
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You started saying about how life threatening putting something in the nose would be because it was not sterile - now you are backing off talking about vegetable FIBERS may cause irritation...
Well, it come out that beet juice has been used traditionally by herbalists and some cultures.
"The juice of this herb drawn up into the nostrils powerfully evacuates phlegmatic humours from the brain, and cures inveterate head-aches. This is counted a great secret by some."
"No wonder then that beet is a part of Russian medicinal folklore.
Anyone looking to get rid of a blocked nose, for example, is advised to grind up and juice beetroot, onion and aloe vera to create their own nose drops."
And I still wonder, why would the fiber get stuck to the nose (that is full of protective mucus as it breathes fumes, pollen, viruses etc) and the same fiber would NOT get stuck to the back of the throat when you eat it?
The fiber in the nose can cause a brain infection?!?
Well, so can a simple breathe of air do: you may catch a virus such as HHV-6 and die of a brain infection.
Even opening the windows can cause you a brain infection as it can let a mosquito infected with lyme come through it, bite you, and you may bet lyme encephalitis and die.
The Russian recipe of nose drops come not only with beet root juice, but also with onions and aloe vera!
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Brussels
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It also comes out that Buhner, in his book Herbal Antibiotics have MANY recipes TO BE USED THROUGH THE NOSE.
Goldenseal: sniffed through the nostrils, in the same fashion that coke addicts do.
Garlic: in the nose will heal sinuses
Garlic in the vagina helps infections.
Essential oil tinctures through the nose helps flu and many other antibiotic resistant infections.
He's got other recipes of herbs to be used internally through the vagina, herbs to be put on wounds, etc
In fact, it is COMMON PRACTICE to use herbs ALSO through the nose, in liquid form, tincture, essential oil and even in POWDER form!
And many of these treatments with nasal sprays have no upper limit: do as much as you want, he wrote.
Just read the book to see.
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Brussels
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Well, after the last post, I did Buhner's suggestion with garlic drops.
He did not put any recipe there, but I just did on my own.
And I reacted even more than with Celery juice. More mucus, and nasty stuff coming out.
Anyway, since I started using celery juice and eventually garlic in the nostrils, no more allergies of anything there.
I suspect that theory of Anthony Williams about nose allergies was right: chronic strep infections in the sinuses make the area weak, and it can easily develop allergies to pollen, dust, mold etc.
I did not believe him, because it made no sense. Well, now it does make TOTAL sense, as I stopped sneezing for good.
not even taking hot soup with chili pepper cause me runny nose.
I actually realized that only older people have runny nose after hot soups, which means, they have chronic mucus there, that get released with heat and pepper (it's a biofilm breaker and antimicrobial).
Children still don't have runny noses taking hot soups because their sinus infections did not get too bad like adults and older people.
I used to have runny nose too after eating hot soups. It's all past now.
It does make me think!
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Keebler
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- Garlic can really burn tender tissue.
While this apparently did not happen for you, whatever the dilution ratio it may vary for individuals. Shooting garlic juice up one's nose in a home-made concoction could be damaging for some nostrils - and for various reasons.
Some folks can take one or two small raw garlic cloves a day, orally, and send on to the stomach and do fine. In fact, it helps some.
Yet, there are others for whom serious internal burning can occur. And the stomach is generally intended to handle foods.
But, putting food up one's nose is another matter entirely. The potential to serious burn that tender tissue up inside the nostrils and sinuses should be considered. -
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Marnie
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All you need to know is Bb has a Lux S gene that is involved in Bbs "talking to each other" *quorum sensing* and what can disrupt this.
"Apparent Role for Borrelia burgdorferi LuxS during Mammalian Infection"
That is SAM - E...for depression.
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Brussels
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Well, Kleeber, you must then complain to Stephen Buhner, because he suggests the garlic nose drops in his book Herbal Antibiotic.
You are suggesting that your thoughts about garlic being harmful for the tender tissues is right while Buhner is wrong?
He did not exactly based his book on opinions, but on papers, folk traditions and published research.
If garlic burns the sinuses, so it also burns the mouth and throat, as they are also tender tissue.
I lived in South Korea, and there, when you go to a restaurant, they do not serve olives in a bowl, BUT RAW garlic cloves in a bowl. A whole bowl of garlic cloves.
Children eat that, and even worse: spicy kimuchi, full of chili pepper. Garlic is a breeze compared to spicy kimchi.
If you haven't been born there, you may have trouble digesting that, of course. But Koreans take for granted that everyone eats garlic and chili...
Even apples can burn your stomach. They did burn mine, when I was allergic to them.
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Marnie, I'm not treating Bb, but probably some old strep in the sinuses...
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Keebler
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- Brussels, you ask: "Well, Kleeber, you must then complain to Stephen Buhner, because he suggests the garlic nose drops in his book Herbal Antibiotic.
You are suggesting that your thoughts about garlic being harmful for the tender tissues is right while Buhner is wrong?" (end quote).
1. Buhner does not suggest garlic nose drops in his book "Herbal Antibiotics" -
2. I'm not suggesting he is wrong but any notion that he suggests squirting actual garlic juice up into one's nostrils and sinuses - well, that is wrong. He does not.
The index of his book is helpful.
In that book p. 347, is the only entry for a nasal spray of any kind, (section) "Nasal Spray Formula for Sinus Infections"
In that he suggests the exact number of drops of 4 different tinctures and then a lot of PURE WATER. The dilution amount is specific.
Garlic is not included.
One reference to garlic is a tincture is on p. 364 as in how to make a garlic tincture as well as other forms of remedies..
p. 72: . . . treating stenotrophomonas m. : Formula 2 . . . fresh garlic juice (1/4 - 1 tsp.) up to 4x day. . . . [and other specifics] (end excerpt).
but no where can I find that he suggest squirting any amount of actual garlic juice from one's own kitchen up one's nose. If you have the passage / page, that would be of help but I've searched and can't find any mention.
Yet, most especially for using any herb for any reason or application, where he gives instructions for anything, for any use throughout the book, he is most specific about the ratio / dilution required.
--- adding at about 5 pm ET:
one other notation for a nasal spray is on p. 181 Buhner's "Herbal Antibiotics" book:
dilution instructions for Juniper drops / water for use in a spray nasal bottle or to inhale as steam or from a diffuser
----
Raw Garlic - Chemical Burn / Damage due to TOPICAL use on mucosa tissue:
Garlic burn of the oral mucosa: A case report and review of self-treatment chemical burns.
Four authors, at link
Excerpt:
. . . an unusual case of a 49-year-old man seeking care for maxillary tooth pain who had an oral mucosal burn of the maxillary vestibule caused by topical application of crushed raw garlic.
The patient believed this treatment would alleviate his dental pain. Localized tissue necrosis * was visible at the site of application. . . .
. . . To the best of the authors' knowledge, this is the second reported case of a garlic burn of the oral mucosa.
The authors discuss the history of garlic as a naturopathic remedy, as well as the development of chemical burns associated with its topical use. . . .
--
* Necrosis -- the death of body tissue. . . This can be from injury, radiation, or chemicals. . . . -
[ 07-24-2019, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Marnie
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Strep in the sinuses...same treatment. Watch for my ***
TUDCA is something we normally make in small quantities. It is taurine + a bile salt. It can cross the BBB too.
Strep, in one way, is worse than Bb because:
"The Six Faces of Streptococcus pneumoniae
Until now. An international team of researchers has discovered that
***the bacteria can take a staggering six different forms depending on the methylation status of its DNA, ***
meaning that scientists who thought they were working on one bacteria may now be surprised to learn that, in effect, they’ve been studying six different ones."
Okay, so Strep can take on 6 different forms depending on the methylation of its DNA…so let’s block the methyl transfer to its DNA with…
After TUDCA treatment,
***the expression levels of Dnmt1 (= DNA methyltransferase and Hdac1 (= catalyze acetyl group removal from lysine residues in histones and non-histone proteins, causing transcriptional repression)
were significantly decreased, ***
and the global level of H3K9ac was significantly increased.
Also, it has been reported that
histone deacetylase inhibitors and DNA methyltransferase inhibitors
can regulate not only cellular reprogramming, but also many other processes and events in various types of cells cultured in vitro[49–52].
Under inflammatory conditions, this stress can substitute for TGF-b signaling resulting in de novo Th17 cell differentiation.
The bile acid tauroursodeoxycholic acid (TUDCA), an inhibitor of cell stress (Kees- tra-Gounder et al., 2016; Xie et al., 2002),
***inhibited Th17 cell differentiation ***
and counteracted the effect of hypoglycemia, osmotic stress, and hypoxia (Figures 4A, 4B, and S4G)
(sorry, having trouble posting that link because of a () in it.
I don't know how much to tell you to take or when. I'm personally trying 250mg daily with food - Amazon - Centurion Labz - Centurion Elite liver support. TUDCA is recommended for many things including asthma ( I have type 2 asthma = C. Pheumoniae triggered)
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Brussels
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Keebler, you haven't read the book well.
Buhner even suggests garlic in the vagina, as a douche!! Or even a garlic clove inserted there!!
Were you talking about how bad garlic is in tender tissues??
It's not what Buhner wrote.
And yes, he DOES SUGGEST GARLIC NOSE DROPS differently to what you said.
That is WHERE I GOT the idea, in fact. From Stephen Buhner, EXACTLY.
Here is the COPY PASTE of Buhner's book, the part where he explains about garlic.
"Raw garlic or its juice kills bacterial infection in the gastrointestinal tract as soon as it comes into direct contact with the organisms.
When used as a douche, the garlic juice (or even a garlic clove inserted in the vagina) will kill bacterial infection.
When used in nose drops, the garlic covers the surface of the nasal passages and sinuses and kills off infection there.
When used on athlete's foot and surface skin infections, its action is sure and rapid."
Keebler
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- what page?
And which edition of the book are you using? I wonder if you might have an older edition of the book.
From
In my 2012 copy, the 2nd edition of the book "Herbal Antibiotics" by Stephen Harrod Buhner,
search each of the pages cited in the index, there is no mention of what you describe under "garlic"
the only reference under "nasal" spray is for what I already listed above, and does not include garlic.
In the Preface - on page ix, 4th paragraph, he says that garlic just did not "make the cut" into this edition of his book.
Excerpts:
". . . Garlic didn't make the cut either in spite of having been included in the other edition of this book. After observing garlic in clinical practice for over 20 years,
I no longer feel it is very effective in the treatment of internal bacterial infections.
The plant and its constituents are active and very widely so - in vitro, but that activity doesn't translate well to the real world.
Clinical trials and in vivo research just haven't found that those in vitro studies translate to efficacy in the treatment of diseases in humans, especially of resistant bacteria. . . . "
[note: if used properly, so this implies there would be some cautions for topical use (and perhaps combinations / dilution though he does not go into detail in this book]
" . . . For topical use, . . . useful - though there are many other plants that are as good or better. And in certain, very limited situations, it can help with some systemic infection --
if you use it properly. Generally, though, its effectiveness lies elsewhere. . . ." (end excerpt, all from last paragraph of page ix) -
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hiker53
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Keebler and Brussels--Just agree that you are not on the same page on this matter.
Brussels--hope you keep posting your results. I don't understand how you get garlic juice into the sinuses. Even the so called saline sinus rinses don't go into the sinuses.
I am not brave enough to try this, but am interested.
-------------------- Hiker53
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Well, this was an interesting read! It got flagged so I checked it. We can discuss the topic and offer our opinions, but please don't make personal statements about other posters.
Re my experience, when I first started drinking mangosteen juice, which is an anti-inflammational juice, my sinuses ran for 2 days straight, and I was completely unaware of having any sinus issues! So I respect the topic! It can be a complex issue.
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Brussels
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Page 34, Herbal Antibiotic, Buhner:
"Controlling Garlic Odor
The difficulty with garlic is, of course, its strong odor, and many people are uncomfortable using it for this reason.
Deodorized garlic capsules are now available through many health food stores.
For stimulating immune function and for lowering blood pressure and cholesterol counts, garlic works well either raw, cooked, or encapsulated. For treating active bacterial infection, it should be consumed either in uncooked whole form or as juice.
Raw garlic or its juice kills bacterial infection in the gastrointestinal tract as soon as it comes into direct contact with the organisms. When used as a douche, the garlic juice (or even a garlic clove inserted in the vagina) will kill bacterial infection. When used in nose drops, the garlic covers the surface of the nasal passages and sinuses and kills off infection there. When used on athlete's foot and surface skin infections, its action is sure and rapid.
In just a few of the many trials, researchers have used garlic in both humans and animals to successfully treat the four strains of bacteria that cause most of the world's dysentery. Chinese physicians have found garlic exceptionally effective against cryptococcal meningitis and viral encephalitis. African physicians have used it as primary medicine successfully against amebic dysentery, toxoplasmosis, Cryptosponridium spp., and pneumocystis spp. American researchers have shown that garlic activates the immune system to help protect the body from infection and, when infection occurs, to stimulate the immune system to attack invading bacteria more effectively. Beyond these potent actions, garlic has also shown repeatable and impressive clinical results in the treatment of heart disease, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, cancer, stress, fatigue, and aging.
If only one herb could be used to combat an epidemic spread of antibiotic -resistant bacteria, this would be it. "
Brussels
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Robin, interesting info on mangosteen.
It looks like it is a potent biofilm breaker too.
I'm not having loads of mucus coming out anymore, but it is still treating a spot of an old tooth root that I lost to SEVERE infection during lyme.
Some mucus still run out, for sure, but not anymore like loads.
And like you, I had no idea I had ANY MUCUS in my sinuses.
Many people probably have the issue without knowing. Mucus get dry and the nose does not run, anyway, until you take some potent biofilm breaker and / or antimicrobial...
Garlic drops do even more than celery, it seems, but it's less enjoyable to do...
And yes, I got the idea about garlic as nose drops from Stephen Buhner.
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Brussels
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Hiker, why would you think sinuses are not linked to nostrils?
When you got a cold and get those sinuses congested, they leak through the nostrils right?
When you cry, you leak some tears also through the nose.
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The upper tooth I lost to lyme leaked through the nostrils.
I could not leave the house, as it leaked badly. Acid water, that burned everything it touched (lips, skin, even the floor got stained from its potent acids).
Even the upper teeth roots are linked through the sinuses / nostrils.
You shoot anything through the nostrils, in different HEAD POSITIONS, and you may get to reach all these parts.
That's why you can unblock your ears (when they get too much water from a swimming pool) by closing your nostrils with your fingers and blowing air, creating a pressure inside the sinuses (or cavities of sinuses) and then the ear unblocks.
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If you put anything through your nostrils, the part that is though MOSTLY reached besides the nostrils, is the pharynx.
When you eat or take any medicine through the mouth, the upper part of the throat is not reached (pharynx).
Take anything THROUGH the nose - that's anyway how some patients are FED in hospitals (a tube from the nose) - and it will touch parts of your throat you can't reach through ingestion (mouth).
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Brussels
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I suspect that saline rinses don't go well to sinuses maybe because they are not enough potent as biofilm breakers? Just a guess?
My celery juice made crazy things in my sinuses. Incredible thick mucus came out first time.
Second day, I heard a big popping noise in my right ear, like sand, seconds later, I then had THE ITCHINESS of my life there.
It was almost unbearable, so much it itched for about an hour. I kept shooting more celery juice through the nostrils until it stopped itching.
It took hours to get to about 10%, which was bearable.
I suspect this happens because of its biofilm breaker action. Probably like mangosteen (?).
It sort of cleaned out something by contact (like biofilm breakers do) and then exposed what was under the film: active chronic infection!!
Of course, I had been SYMPTOMLESS before the experiment!!
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Brussels
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Buhner said that even a dilution 1 part to 125,000 of garlic can inhibit the growth of bacteria.
It's in Herbal Antibiotic.
In homeopathy, this would mean even more diluted than a 3C dilution.
How to prepare a C3 dilution?
1 drop of garlic to 99 drops of water = 1C dilution (1 to 100)
1 drop of 1C dilution to 99 drops of water = 2C dilution (1 to 10,000)
1 drop of 2C dilution to 99 drops of water = 3C dilution (1 to 100,000)
You can see that a VERY WEAK dilution of garlic is already useful as anti microbial!!
So for those who are not brave to do stronger dilutions (I'm not doing extreme strong dilutions either), you can do as above and you'll still have some antimicrobial action.
And yes, according to Buhner.
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Brussels
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Now I am using mainly 3 or 4 positions to apply the juice in the nostrils:
1- head slightly looking up, standing position. I drop a few drops in each nostril.
2- neti pot position - I just load one nostril with juice until it leaks somewhere (sometimes it goes out like a neti pot, sometimes it goes inside, back to the pharynx).
3- I stand up, and look under my 2 legs (head is upside down) - that is the best position to reach the inner part of eyes and upper sinuses.
I also do that in sitting position, in the couch.
After, I rapidly stand up and move my head backwards, so that the juice leaks through the maxillary sinuses.
I know it works this way because of garlic drops: the garlic will show you EXACTLY where it is going, cm by cm, because it feels astringent.
Like pepper.
4- lying down, looking up- it will reach the back of the throat /pharynx, I feel it disinfects that part well.
5- And I like to sniff it too, only few drops. I hope it reaches the bronchial tubes.
For those who think it's dangerous for the lungs, well, Buhner recommends curcuma POWDER sniffed, like people sniff cocaine.
I'm still not brave to do the powdery things (like curcuma), but who knows one day?
If I had some lung issue, I would give it a try.
And yes, he does recommend tinctures in nasal sprays, to be sniffed as droplets, to reach the lungs.
For some tinctures, no upper limit, as much as you want, he wrote.
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Keebler
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- Warning: garlic juice / drops can burn tender tissue. Shooting anything up one's nose involves caution.
Sniffing any powder - even if curcuma - can also pose serious risks to nasal passages - and to lungs. Turmeric, the basis of curcuma also is very high in oxalate crystals that can cause lots of tissue damage to tender tissue. -
[ 07-25-2019, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Brussels
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So says Keebler.
Buhner says other other things about garlic, as anyone can see.
And of course, Buhner suggests alternatives for those who can't take / use garlic.
Dr K. uses garlic as number 1 antimicrobial, even after decades on the chronic infection 'business'.
Freeze dried garlic.
He even suggests to tape garlic slices on a tick bite, for example, as it's pretty potent.
I did that 13-14 years ago, when I learned about garlic and realized how potent it was.
And the best with garlic: critters won't get used to it, it seems. Plus it's THE strongest and the most WIDESPECTRUM herb Buhner recommends.
Remember: Buhner suggests garlic as the number 1 treatment he would choose if he's fighting extremely stubborn antibiotic resistant microbes.
that's the reason he wrote Herbal Antibiotics. Not because he thinks herbs are 'milder' alternative to antibiotics.
No. He said that in an more recent interview: he wrote that book Herbal Antibiotics specifically to treat stubborn, dangerous and antibiotic resistant microbes.
that's how potent garlic is!
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Keebler
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- You say: "Remember: Buhner suggests garlic as the number 1 treatment he would choose if he's fighting extremely stubborn antibiotic resistant microbes. . . .(end your quote)
It would be helpful if you could post the pages of the books you quote - and the year / edition. Same with any interview, the date of the actual interview (not the date someone posted it) and a link would help.
The book editions seem to be off kilter. The 2012, 2nd edition is the most recent. But what you post does not match what's in my book. I wonder what edition you are using.
His first edition of that book, was printed in 1999, according to search site: archive.org
In my 2012 copy, the 2nd edition of the book "Herbal Antibiotics" by Stephen Harrod Buhner,
search each of the pages cited in the index, there is no mention of what you describe under "garlic"
the only reference under "nasal" spray is for what I already listed above, and does not include garlic.
In the Preface - on page ix, 4th paragraph, he says that garlic just did not "make the cut" into this edition of his book.
Excerpts:
". . . Garlic didn't make the cut either in spite of having been included in the other edition of this book. After observing garlic in clinical practice for over 20 years,
I no longer feel it is very effective in the treatment of internal bacterial infections.
The plant and its constituents are active and very widely so - in vitro, but that activity doesn't translate well to the real world.
Clinical trials and in vivo research just haven't found that those in vitro studies translate to efficacy in the treatment of diseases in humans, especially of resistant bacteria. . . . "
[note: if used properly, so this implies there would be some cautions for topical use (and perhaps combinations / dilution though he does not go into detail in this book]
" . . . For topical use, . . . useful - though there are many other plants that are as good or better. And in certain, very limited situations, it can help with some systemic infection --
if you use it properly. Generally, though, its effectiveness lies elsewhere. . . ." (end excerpt, all from last paragraph of page ix) -
[ 07-26-2019, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Keebler
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- While your posts about using garlic for nose drops is not about lyme . . . even back in 2006, Buhner did not recommend garlic for lyme.
Sure, others do such as Dr. K and also Dr. Z - always with other herbs, though and not to put up one's nose. I found the Zhang protocol very helpful and that incorporates a form of concentrated garlic. but not up the nose, which is my main point of caution.
Garlic for lyme? . . . Q & A: Oct 30, 2006 Dear Stephen,
Do you think garlic is an exceptional plant to add for someone with lyme? You don’t say anything about it in your book, and I keep reading so much about it. Thanks a lot!
Stephen’s response:
I have written a lot about garlic over the past 20 years, especially in my book Herbal Antibiotics. However, for lyme I do not think it a primary herb for treatment.
It can be a useful adjunct in that regular garlic in the diet does help raise immune function.
But as a direct antibacterial for lyme I think it useless. The primary reason is that lyme is exceptionally systemic and goes deep within a number of tissues.
Therefore any herb to be used as an antibacterial must be able to penetrate to these difficult to reach areas. Garlic, in my experience, does not. . . . (end quote)
[His 2012, 2nd edition of "Herbal Antibiotics" is still in line with this reply from 6 years prior.] -
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hiker53
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Brussels,
I certainly know that sinuses are linked to the nasal passages. However, when I use my sinus rinse it does not go into the sinuses, just into the nose as is the case with most sinus rinses.
This may be because I don't turn my head enough--too often I get vertigo and I don't want to risk that.
-------------------- Hiker53
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hiker53
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Keebler,
I don't think Brussels is using a garlic rinse for Lyme in the sinuses but for other harmful bacteria.
I may be wrong about that.
-------------------- Hiker53
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