posted
hi Brussels i just saw the last line of your post in thethread on coronavirus - eye symptoms.
quote: "I was hoping that Lyme folks were more protected due to Lyme disease - as many are immune to the flu/colds."
Can you tell me any more about that.
my partner and I have not had a cold or flu since getting ill 5 years ago - but before that 2-3 colds a year on average. But I have never seen any other reference to that in the Lyme literature, so i am very interested to hear more.
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Brussels
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Member # 13480
posted
Hi Garz, I was just wondering, because many people with lyme say they never catch the flu or colds.
In my case, it happened like that too. During the time lyme was active, I had no SINGLE COLD or flu. Nothing.
Some say it has to do with the TH1 or TH2 (I can't remember which) response, that lyme sufferers are stuck to one of these immune responses, therefore they can't catch acute illnesses such as the flu / colds.
I think it was Buhner who first described that, if my memory is good.
If this is the case, I wonder if many CHRONIC lyme sufferers aren't immune to colds / flu, and therefore somehow more protected against the Covid19?
Since lyme went dormant for me, i started catching colds AND the flu, from times to times, like other people.
I hope you guys don't catch this.
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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although we cannot be 100% confident we have Lyme - because no tests are 100% and we have tested both positive and negative in different tests - our experience has certainly matched those you describe.
Actually, as my partner's energy recovered and her muscle and joint pain diminished she started to get colds again. Only slight ones at first. Then full-blown ones later. I get maybe a tickle in the back of my throat for 1-2 days then nothing, or maybe slight congestion 1st thing in the morning for a couple of days and that's it.
I have read all of buhners books on the topic and don't recall coming across it mentioned - but may have another look.
ref the risk in COVID infection - just thinking out loud: -it is a coronavirus - like the common cold - so the above might imply a degree of protection but there are likely many other factors at play: -the COVID-19 virus is new and so may act in unpredictable ways - those with Lyme have by definition an impaired immune system - this could be either good or bad - not enough is known. - often those with lyme have reduced CD57+ type white blood cells (involved in fighting viruses and bacterial pathogens) seems likely to have a negative impact - but again not enough is known - all sorts of other factors around general health and co-morbidity could change the picture in each individual's case.
thanks again for posting
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Brussels
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posted
You're welcome, Garz.
Thanks too for your view on the subject.
I agree that this infection is new, and we may all be more inclined to catch it, if in contact with the virus.
I guess, better to avoid catching it at first.
But as I think this will stay with us for a few years still,... it'll be hard to hide for so long.
I do hope lyme sufferers are stronger against this than average population, because of that defect in immune response, though.
As far as I keep hearing, many people are catching it around (with quite a few confirmed cases in my town). But few are dying here in Switzerland (I mean, comparing to neighboring Italy, France and Spain).
The US is catching up fast though. I wonder why some countries seem to have more death rates than others...
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
there seem to be various factors - regarding mortality in different countries.
the part will be due to the quality of the medical care - for instance, I saw a very low death rate in Germany - but they have around 5x the number of intensive care beds per citizen than the UK.
then there is the general health status of the populations in the various countries. the USA has something like 50% of its that are overweight 30% obese - this is a general indication of lower health status and is a known risk factor for COVID-19 mortality. the USA also has a population here over 50% of adults have a chronic disease. in some regions in the USA, they are already reaching capacity with the health care system - so this will negatively impact survival. And they were slow off the mark with containment measures so this is unlikely to improve any time soon.
age is also a factor - both northern Italy and china have aging populations. the aged populations in china were the previous smoker also - hence increasing their risk and mortality figures overall in the china population.
there is also some early research showing that there are 3 variants of teh virus in circulation - the original one did not travel much outside the region it was originally found - the second one infected china and Asia more widely and the third is more prevalent in western countries ( if I recall correctly ) both the ethnic makeup of the populations and the genetic differences in the viral strain may affect morbidity -
in fact, they are connected in that natural selection will pressure the virus to mutate to infect new populations if they are resistant to some degree to the original it's an early study at the moment but seems logical.
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Phoiph
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Garz: hi Brussels i just saw the last line of your post in thethread on coronavirus - eye symptoms.
quote: "I was hoping that Lyme folks were more protected due to Lyme disease - as many are immune to the flu/colds."
Can you tell me any more about that.
my partner and I have not had a cold or flu since getting ill 5 years ago - but before that 2-3 colds a year on average. But I have never seen any other reference to that in the Lyme literature, so i am very interested to hear more.
My understanding is that people with chronic illnesses that involve immune dysfunction, such as Lyme and coinfections, still become infected with colds and flus, but may not have a noticeable response to them.
The bacteria and viruses are present in the body and still wreak havoc, but are sequestered, as the body either has "bigger fish to fry" and has deprioritized the bug, or may not be able to mount an adequate defense at the time, due to immune insufficiency/imbalances (including TH1/TH2).
Once someone begins to get well at a deep level and the layers begin to be traversed, they may start to get many colds and flus, which can be a good sign that the immune system is coming back into balance and doing its job.
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yes - that is also similar to something I read in Dr Sarah Myhills book on CFS - she wrote something similar to you describe, that people with CFS (which also has immune dysfunction as part of its make-up and a lot of similarities to chronic lyme disease symptoms) also often do not seem to get colds or flu - but that in fact, they do get these - but they just cause their CFS symptoms to worsen and may not often know the cause.
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